The Worst Lies from Politicians

Knowledgeispower

Ah I love the smell of missile spam in the morning
What in your opinion is the worst lie ever told by a politician? My personal favorite is Chamberlin's Peace in our time....when in reality Munich was an attempt to buy enough time for the UK and France to rearm properly
 
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Terthna

Professional Lurker
Not the worst I suppose, but when Obama promised to repeal the Patriot Acts, but then went on to sign them back into law; that felt pretty bad, not gonna lie. All he had to do was not sign them; almost nobody was pushing for him to do so at the time, as far as I'm aware, and it would have cost him nothing. But instead, he signed them; and now we're basically stuck with them forever.
 
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Terthna

Professional Lurker
Speaking of controversy and George W. Bush, how about the time he insisted we needed to invade Iraq because they had "weapons of mass destruction"? Weapons he couldn't prove they had, weapons we couldn't find after all was said and done, weapons his administration fabricated evidence of in order to convince the American people to go to war.
 

Emperor Tippy

Merchant of Death
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Speaking of controversy and George W. Bush, how about the time he insisted we needed to invade Iraq because they had "weapons of mass destruction"? Weapons he couldn't prove they had, weapons we couldn't find after all was said and done, weapons his administration fabricated evidence of in order to convince the American people to go to war.
That depends on what you are counting as WMD's. I mean a large chunk of Assad's chemical weapons came from Syria, and we found tons of them in Iraq as well.

Whether or not Iraq had nuclear stuff is another question, and we aren't really going to get the full truth on Iraq until at least the 2050's when things start getting declassified en mass.
 

Erwin_Pommel

Well-known member
My personal favorite is Chamberlin's Peace in our time.
Would that count as a lie? A lot of British politicians at the time were desperate to avoid another war as most assumed it would be a repeat of WW1 with many vets being surprised by the mere concept of a tank being able to simply refuel at the local petty rather than waiting for the big machines to roll in and pump the juice. Seems more like misguided relief after a fit of paranoia given how the Cons acted in the build up to Churchill's big speech.
 

Terthna

Professional Lurker
That depends on what you are counting as WMD's. I mean a large chunk of Assad's chemical weapons came from Syria, and we found tons of them in Iraq as well.

Whether or not Iraq had nuclear stuff is another question, and we aren't really going to get the full truth on Iraq until at least the 2050's when things start getting declassified en mass.
Not sure why you're bringing up Assad, but the important thing was that Bush's administration fabricated evidence of specific weapons of mass destruction in Iraq, and then failed to produce them after we invaded; once we figured out said evidence was faked, it kinda undermined anything else we might have found in Saddam's arsenal, because it never could have lived up to the expectation they sold us on.
 

Knowledgeispower

Ah I love the smell of missile spam in the morning
Would that count as a lie? A lot of British politicians at the time were desperate to avoid another war as most assumed it would be a repeat of WW1 with many vets being surprised by the mere concept of a tank being able to simply refuel at the local petty rather than waiting for the big machines to roll in and pump the juice. Seems more like misguided relief after a fit of paranoia given how the Cons acted in the build up to Churchill's big speech.
Because the UK wasn't planning for peace Munich was attempt to buy enough time for the UK and France to properly rearm and thus enable them to properly stand up to Hitler. For heavens sake 1939 had conscription well before WWII broke out
 

Erwin_Pommel

Well-known member
Because the UK wasn't planning for peace
Except they kind of were? The entire build up to Churchill's "Never Surrender Speech" was filled with party members threatening to leave so they could trigger a vote of no-confidence and enstate someone who -wanted- to back the peace deal.

Munich was attempt to buy enough time for the UK and France to properly rearm and thus enable them to properly stand up to Hitler.
They had been arming up since the end of WW1, albeit their heads were stuck in the gutter as war had changed since the breaking of the trench lines in Flanders.

For heavens sake 1939 had conscription well before WWII broke out
Bear in mind the Japs had been active since the early 30's and that was more than enough reason to get the train chugging and then there was Austria and Czechoslovakia which would've set off more alarms. Preparing conscription in a time of uncertain peace is standard across all nations with the systems present and to assert that such caution and paranoia is a lie is in itself nothing more than a lie. While Chamberlain was certainly no saint or very competent in the build up to the war his actions weren't built on lies outside of not having a panicking populace when they found out their boys could be potentially swallowed up by the German advance before the Dynamo came along. His were the actions of a man wracked with fear and paranoia.

"Peace in our time." was a misjudge of honesty and the actions of a desperate parliament, but it was certainly no lie.
 

LordsFire

Internet Wizard
Not sure why you're bringing up Assad, but the important thing was that Bush's administration fabricated evidence of specific weapons of mass destruction in Iraq, and then failed to produce them after we invaded; once we figured out said evidence was faked, it kinda undermined anything else we might have found in Saddam's arsenal, because it never could have lived up to the expectation they sold us on.

...No he didn't.

And yes there were WMDs.

And yes, their discovery was covered.

There weren't huge massive stockpiles of WMDs, but there was enough to show that Hussein had still had them.

'Bush lied kids died' was the 2004 version of 'Trump/Russia collusion' lies.
 

Culsu

Agent of the Central Plasma
Founder
Munich really isn't a lie, but the prelude to the realization that everybody had maneuvered themselves into a position where saving face and maintaining treaty obligations narrowed the politically acceptable actions for all involved parties in a way that streamlined the path to war.

Munich, largely in ethos based on the belief of the self-determination of peoples, lead to the break-up of the Czechoslovak state. The result was a Czech rump that *could not* survive - strategically, economically - on its own. That is the fault of Munich: not realizing this effect. That can be laid at the feet of all the participants. Going by the knowledge that these people had at the time, it could not have been apparent that war became an inevitability. Especially because Germany's actions so far had been achieved peacefully. The Anschluss had been overwhelmingly welcomed by the Austrians. Sudetenland was decided peacefully via a treaty. It only all went off the rails when Germany unilaterally annexed the Czech rump rather than play smart for a diplomatic solution.
 

Terthna

Professional Lurker
...No he didn't.

And yes there were WMDs.

And yes, their discovery was covered.

There weren't huge massive stockpiles of WMDs, but there was enough to show that Hussein had still had them.

'Bush lied kids died' was the 2004 version of 'Trump/Russia collusion' lies.
And 'there were totally WMDs' was the 2004 version of 'Hillary didn't acid-wash her emails'; technically accurate, but misrepresentative of the issue at hand. The fact of that matter is that the evidence of WMDs he presented to the American people was completely fabricated; it does not matter that Saddam actually had WMDs, Bush still lied to justify a war we had no business fighting, and that ultimately made things worse for us in the long run.
 

Abhorsen

Local Degenerate
Moderator
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Osaul
I'll be honest, I don't get why chemical weapons count as WMD's. I'm happy they aren't used, but they really are missing the mass descruction potential. I mean, carpet bombing does similar levels of damage.
 

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