Scooby Doo
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#Debunking number 5. Warframes ARE DESTINY PARACASUAL THEY CAN DO LITERALLY EVERYTHING GUARDIANS DO AND MOAR CAUSE VOID IZ OP PARDIIIJEEEEEDDJDJSJZN!!!
Is Warframe Paracasual?
No, now let's break this to easy and simple to understand terms. What is Paracausality
According to the content released for Shadowkeep. Golden Age Humanity described it as
Paracausality operates under its OWN system of rules and is not entirely beholden to the known rules of the universe (For example there are SOME laws of motion a Guardian can't break but others they can which fits with the traits of being Paracasual), it's unlikely that the Void operates under the same rules as Destiny's and there is nothing to prove that they do.
BUT we do have PROOF to suggest that the Void DOESN'T operate under the same rules and if they don't operate by the same rules as Destiny then logic dictates they are NOT "Destiny" Paracasual and are at best a CHEAP copy.
Now we need to go one step further before the debunk to establish a bigger difference between the two and why they're not fundamentally the same.
1. Who created Paracasuallity in Destiny?
2. Examples of being who are Paracasual.
1. Paracausality was created by both the Gardner and the Darkness during the "Flower Game"
And what's interesting is that the non Paracasual entities are capable of performing feats that break physics yet this doesn't make them Paracasual, for example.
Calus was able to eat Neutron Star Matter
The Psion's can spawn energy out of nothing
The Fallen have Taniks come back to several life after getting killed FIVE times by Guardians.
Vex creating singularities by inputting more information that can fit in a finite space.
So defying death like Taniks (Inaros/Sevagoth) being extremely resilient and strong like Calus (Atlas) even creating energy like Qinziq (Ember) or packing tons of energy into a small area to create massive destruction like the Vex (Nova) isn't enough to be considered Paracasual in Destiny.
But what we do know thanks to Savathun that the Guardians and Hive Gods are Paracasual.
So what best way to hammer in the point than by mentioning their most unique trait in the setting? Paracasual entities are NOT bound by fate, because of this trait they can not be predicted by Vex OR effected by time manipulation as Paracasuallity is a specific counter measure to it.
Guardians are confirmed to make their own fate twice and are confirmed to not be affected by Time loops/preordination.
This is important because Warframes are explicitly affected by Time Loops from Protea
Confirmed by Tenshin to be beholden to Fate without direct interference from outside help.
And confirmed to be able to not escape the time loop established by Ballas without outside assistance.
So in summary
1. Breaking Physics isn't enough to be Paracasual
2. Not being bound by Fate or Time IS a criteria to be considered Paracasual.
3.The Tenno are bound by both Fate and Time with out special aid or assistance.
4. The Gardener and Darkness created Paracasuallity specifically for the game they were playing in their universe with established Rules, the Void from Warframe wasn't so they're incomparable in purpose and design.
Is Warframe Paracasual?
No, now let's break this to easy and simple to understand terms. What is Paracausality
According to the content released for Shadowkeep. Golden Age Humanity described it as
"Correlation detected between events with no plausible causal relationship under closed monist physics, but a plausible relationship under another conceivable system of cause and effect"
The original prefix definition of "Para" is defined as "Next to" and "Side by Side" and generally (With some exceptions) would mean "Parallel".
What is Causality?
"The relationship between cause and effect."
Then we have this example of a monologue of a Guardian and how their Paracasuallity can defy the conventional laws of physics.Ex: "Relationship between two events, or variables, in which one event or process causes an effect on the other event or process."
This is where people come to the conclusion oh Paracasuallity is just space magic therefore Void which breaks physics is the exact same!It reminds me of my place in the universe. It reminds me of every force that acts on me, every "law" of motion I can or can't break. I'm most interested in the ones I can't break, honestly. Considering I am myself an aberration of the laws of physics, I rather like finding the edges of things. -Approaching Infinity
Paracausality operates under its OWN system of rules and is not entirely beholden to the known rules of the universe (For example there are SOME laws of motion a Guardian can't break but others they can which fits with the traits of being Paracasual), it's unlikely that the Void operates under the same rules as Destiny's and there is nothing to prove that they do.
BUT we do have PROOF to suggest that the Void DOESN'T operate under the same rules and if they don't operate by the same rules as Destiny then logic dictates they are NOT "Destiny" Paracasual and are at best a CHEAP copy.
Now we need to go one step further before the debunk to establish a bigger difference between the two and why they're not fundamentally the same.
1. Who created Paracasuallity in Destiny?
2. Examples of being who are Paracasual.
1. Paracausality was created by both the Gardner and the Darkness during the "Flower Game"
Paracasuallity was specifically designed to counter the Vex victory spree and made Paracasuallity rule that quite literally gathered strength from being a deviation of the norm but being balanced by the creators via a set of unknown rules."No," the gardener said, "I am the growth and preservation of complexity. I will make myself into a law in the game."
And thus we two became parts of the game, and the laws of the game became nomic and open to change by our influence. And I had only one purpose and one principle in the game. And I could do nothing but continue to enact that purpose, because it was all that I was and ever would be.
Notice the description? It's matching the ones provided by Golden Age Humanity and the prefix "Para". Notice that Gardner says Paracasuallity can't be compromised by the "Rest of the Rules" this means while Paracasuallity has its own set of rules it is superior to that of the "Regular" physics which matches up with what the Hive described when they fought a faction with Paracasual weapons."A special new rule. Something to…" The gardener threw up their hands in exasperation. "I don't know. To reward those who make space for new complexity. A power that helps those who make strength from heterodoxy, and who steer the game away from gridlock. Something to ensure there's always someone building something new. It'll have to be separate from the rest of the rules, running in parallel, so it can't be compromised. And we'll have to be very careful, so it doesn't disrupt the whole game…"
2. Who are Paracasual? Pretty much beings who have a connection with the Traveler or Darkness so.We knew curiosity would draw you back, Auryx. In their desperation, the Ammonite have begun using paracausal weapons.
What are these? How do they work? Wouldn't you like to know. Suffice to say that some powers in this universe are superordinate to mere material physics.
The source of these weapons is the Traveler, the Sky's bait star. Their effect is subtle, but devastating.
- The Traveler and its chosen
- The Witness and its servants
- Those who don't serve either or but learned to manipulate their power (Ex: The Exo Stranger or Ahsha)
- The Cabal (Pre-Red War)
- Psions (Pre-Red War)
- Fallen (Pre-Beyond Light)
- The Vex (No Sol Divisive)
And what's interesting is that the non Paracasual entities are capable of performing feats that break physics yet this doesn't make them Paracasual, for example.
Calus was able to eat Neutron Star Matter
A violation of Newton's law of universal gravitationI have seen Calus feast on things no living mouth can eat. A chill superfluid of helium-4, whorled in his cup for ten years by a single turn of his wrist: he returned a decade later to toss it back. Or a pea of neutronium that should have torn through him like fog. He told me it tasted like the thickest fudge.
The Psion's can spawn energy out of nothing
A violation of law of conservation of energySmaller ships flock like parasites around a centerpiece flagship. points to it, a Cabal carrier-class warship. "Glykon Volatus." She touches her finger to the yard's perimeter barrier and says, "Over," as if directing an animal. Qinziq flattens her palm against the ground and displaces the radiolarian saturation with a bubble of Void energy
The Fallen have Taniks come back to several life after getting killed FIVE times by Guardians.
Violation of Death by refusing to dieEventually, he was the subject of a Hunter's Dare from Cayde to Andal Brask; whoever killed Taniks would win the Dare, and the loser would be forced to become the Hunter Vanguard. Cayde-6 killed Taniks, causing Andal Brask to lose the Dare and become the Hunter Vanguard. However, Taniks did not actually die, returning later to kill Andal Brask, which provoked Cayde-6 to hunt him down and kill him again. This resulted in Cayde's promotion to Hunter Vanguard.
But Taniks, who by now was known for survival, returned and freed Aksor, a notable Fallen Archon, from the Prison of Elders.
Vex creating singularities by inputting more information that can fit in a finite space.
Violation of several laws of physics but one notable one being the Bekenstein BoundVex sometimes pack enough energy and information into a small area of spacetime to collapse it into kugelblitz black hole like the one you can see outside.
So defying death like Taniks (Inaros/Sevagoth) being extremely resilient and strong like Calus (Atlas) even creating energy like Qinziq (Ember) or packing tons of energy into a small area to create massive destruction like the Vex (Nova) isn't enough to be considered Paracasual in Destiny.
But what we do know thanks to Savathun that the Guardians and Hive Gods are Paracasual.
So what best way to hammer in the point than by mentioning their most unique trait in the setting? Paracasual entities are NOT bound by fate, because of this trait they can not be predicted by Vex OR effected by time manipulation as Paracasuallity is a specific counter measure to it.
By now, Quria knows it can't win.
There's something pathological about the world inside Oryx's ship. It resists analysis with hot, dead spite. And Oryx himself, he's irreducible — he refuses to obey Quria's simulations, he crashes around sowing chaos, he grabs subminds and compromises them with some kind of ontological weapon. Paracausal systems. Very problematic.
Quiria was a Vex Hydra who are said to have impressive computational abilities compared to other high end VexThe Taken King marches on Quria's Hydra-hull, armed with blade and magic, cloaked in ancient cloth, and the universe wails in horror around him. Quria's physics models and toy worlds choke and crash.
A Fodder Goblin is able to simulate an entire universe indistinguishable from the real one which requires extreme precisions and predictive abilities.The Hydra chassis common to many Vex Axis Minds boasts impressive computational capacity.
SUNDARESH: If we're sims, we exist in the pocket of the universe that the Vex specimen is able to simulate with its onboard brainpower. If we're real, we need to get outside that bubble.
Guardians are confirmed to make their own fate twice and are confirmed to not be affected by Time loops/preordination.
2. The three-week loop must be a failsafe measure to keep Dûl Incaru safe as she pursues her mission. In a sense, this entire city has been rendered deterministic; only paracausal Guardians have any free will here. (The Awoken here have been touched by greater powers, so they are aware of their preordination, but they cannot alter it.) I'm certain that Quria is behind this loop; as a Taken Vex, it's capable of pathological subversions of reality. I'll continue working on a countermeasure.
This is important because Warframes are explicitly affected by Time Loops from Protea
Confirmed by Tenshin to be beholden to Fate without direct interference from outside help.
And confirmed to be able to not escape the time loop established by Ballas without outside assistance.
So in summary
1. Breaking Physics isn't enough to be Paracasual
2. Not being bound by Fate or Time IS a criteria to be considered Paracasual.
3.The Tenno are bound by both Fate and Time with out special aid or assistance.
4. The Gardener and Darkness created Paracasuallity specifically for the game they were playing in their universe with established Rules, the Void from Warframe wasn't so they're incomparable in purpose and design.
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