The Warframe Debunk thread (Revised)

[Scooby Doo]

I am making this thread due to the Raiden vs Excal Deathbattles and due to the insane amount of Warframe wankery that's been going on the last year. There's a lot of blatant fanboyism spreading out of context claims and outright fanfiction level of claims about Warframe and have misleaded the public on their power levels for versus debates.

As speaking from someone of Mastery Rank 16 who farmed frames like Gara/Garuda/Yareli from scratch and unlocked all the cosmetics from Steelpath even doing all of Deimos solo on Steelpath I am pretty familiar with the setting and can safely say that the community grossly over estimates the universes vs potential and relies argument wise on a lot of headcanon and fanfiction for most arguments instead of relying on actual feat representation.

Spoiler: My achievements less than 5% of players have for Xbox. + My total hours played

This indicates I've long since completed a major story Arc of the setting, so basically me getting far into the story and knowing about the lore and narrative.

Finally, I got 1,000+ hours and 91% completion rate. I am an extremely credible source on the abilities of the Warframe setting.

This thread will focus on debunking common misconceptions while pointing out abused fallacies by the community and at the same time point out why Raiden would crush Excalibur.

#Debunking number 1. Excalibur does absolutely NOT scale to Atlas

Not only does Excalibur not scale this method of arguing is called an equivalence fallacy. Best described in the analogy below

Warframe debaters erroneously assume ALL Warframes are with in the same physical capability because they're apart of the same faction which isn't true and this especially is so in the case of Excalibur and Atlas, the argument is no different from saying "If Batman had 1% of the strength of Superman than he should have no issue of destroying a city with one punch, after all they're both Justice League members and fight the same type of enemies" it's a flawed argument that ignores context.

The Atlas feat as of 2022 is the sole greatest physical feat in the setting that no Warframe has ever come close to replicating and Atlas per his profile

"The brawler, the strong. Master of Earth and Stone, he alters the environment with incredible force" 0:13-0:21

"Moving mountains is no easy task Tenno" 1:40-1:45

Atlas is the only one with such claims/feats/statements being made to him and no other Tenno, Deathbattles and many Warframe fanboys erroneously assumed this can be applied to Excalibur which its blatantly contradicted on several instances. While Excalibur does possess great strength it is NO WHERE near Atlas, Excalibur's best strength feat thus far is in the Orokin Era by destroying a large section of an Orokin dropship with a fully charged Paris Prime Bow. (Which may have not been entirely pure strength)

Which while superhuman due to the size and thick plating of the vessel, it is not close to the level of Atlas. To be 1% of Atlas according to DeathBattles the Warframe Excalibur would have to be capable of exerting and withstanding forces up to 40 Megatons, which is 80% of the Tsar Bomba. To put this into perspective visuals wise Excalibur should be displacing thousands of kilometers worth of dirt and earth with a single attack, he doesn't and this is consistent.

Atlas and Excalibur having the same power rating means nothing, Volt who has the same power rating as Excalibur is hundreds if not THOUSANDS of times faster than Excalibur

Here Excalibur is but a mere statue to Volt, debunking the fallacy that all Warframes are equal to each other in physical performance.​

In the main canonical trailer for Warframe an Orokin Era Excalibur (Who would be easily the second strongest if not THE strongest version to be debated due to having the best equipment available) going all out is only able to make a blast that consumes 35 people which is more a result of his energy projection than sheer strength.

Impressive blast right? This is the crater after wards

This Excalibur wasn't weakened in any shape or form nor was he constrained by game play mechanics since it was a cinematic (A favorite argument to make on why they don't perform the fanfic level feats they say Excalibur can perform) there is literally no reason for Excalbur to not have just swung his sword one direction and carve a new valley in the other direction instead of taking over a minute to kill literal fodder.

We literally see Excalibur's Kunai get stuck on a Grineer soldiers helm, are you going to genuinely argue that Grineer infantry are wearing armor that can withstand MEGATONS worth of kinetic energy and not only fail to break but also not get sent flying to the horizon from sheer force?

WHERE ARE THE MEGATONS?

WHERE ARE THE KILOTONS?

If Excalibur had 0.1% the strength of Atlas there wouldn't be a Orokin Dropship or even Grineer body left to see. If anyone who sees this post still disagrees go ahead and post a feat of Excalibur doing anything close to 1% of the feat Atlas performed.
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Part 2 to follow below.

 

[Val the Moofia Boss]

I stopped playing Warframe around 2016 when the Kuva grind happened. They're just anime swordsmen that can flashstep. Powerful but nothing compared to really obscenely powerlevel characters.

 

[Scooby Doo]

#Debunking number 2. Warframes are invincible/unkillable/unstoppable because of 1,000%+Mods and Abilities!!!

This is a "No Limits Fallacy" or other wise a "Proof by example"

I know that X is such.Therefore, anything related to X is also such.

It's more accurate to say that Warframes are invincible/unkillable/unstoppable to what they've canonically faced thus far but couldn't be argued other wise to something they haven't faced before.

Ex: Someone who is completely invulnerable to bullets (Homelander) could still die to a nuke. Therefore any frames with Invulnerability mechanics would only scale as far as to the most powerful thing they can evidently tank. Which is debatable since this relies on game mechanics which can be exploited and are far from consistent so this would have to be analyzed with in reason.

How do we do analyze with in reason, well let's look at all the things that have been known or at least have the potential to harm/kill Warframes in scripted events/statements and cutscenes.



Titania dies to presumably a Battalion worth of Dax.

Silvana: "I once thought the same of Warframes. When the Orokin found out what I had done here, they sent their Dax upon the great trees. Upon me. As the skies grew hot and my roots split into cinder, I let out a deep earthen-scream. I was dying. And then suddenly I felt a familiar presence..."

Silvana: "One by one, the mighty Dax began to fall, swatting hopelessly at some unseen menace. Others were snared, drifting upward in a mesmerizing light and then, all at once, shredded by that unseen force. When the fires subsided, I knew what it was."

Titania. My shamed creation. I felt her beating wings through my branches. I felt her mortal wounds, her weeping burns as she fell beneath my canopy. And so it was here, within this grove, that she died to save me. Me, the one who had hated her most. -Silver Grove Quest

How do we know it's a Battalion? According to Lotus who believed she was still in the Orokin era there was a Golden Spear fleet which measured Dax units in "Battalions"

Spoiler: Sources for Drax below

Natah: "And the Golden Spear? How many battalions?"

Erra: "Still having lapses? Listen to me. That's the past. The Old War. Tell her, Maker!"

Erra yanks on the leash, and Ballas stumbles forward, gasping.

Ballas: "Yes! There is no Spear, Lo— uh… Natah. Erra speaks—"

Erra yanks on the leash again.

Ballas: "—Master Erra. He speaks true. My… the Orokin are gone. The 'bios' are divided, in-fighting over what remains. Only the Tenno—" -Erra Quest

And we know it was the Dax because they are the only known ones stated to be apart of Railjack Crews.

The Quellor was standard-issue to Dax Railjack crews of the Old War, dating back to the earliest, pre-Sigma craft. A rapid-fire assault rifle with a hefty magazine-size, the Quellor is an all-round workhorse. Also capable of large, short-range cryo-blasts.-The Quellor Codex

It's doubtful the Orokin Grineer would be knowledgeable on the Railjacks because they were genetically created to be simpletons.

Several Warframes were permanently killed by a Machine called a Myrmidon capable of suppressing their power

Have you perhaps heard tell of the Myrmidon? No matter. A preternatural beast-figure straight out of myth he was, one whose prey had no equal. Warframes were what this villain hunted. It is said a number of 'frames had been erased from history by this monster, models who no longer exist on any record.-Ivara Codex Introduction

Said machines energy beams could vaporize a Warframe.

Clad in red-and-gold armor it gestured to the first Warframe with what Porvis describes as 'a strange clutching motion, as if seizing a falling apple'. But it was no greeting, as we shall see. The powers of that first Warframe, the recipient of that gesture, promptly failed. The Myrmidon took advantage of the confusion to leap upon the hapless 'frame and press a palm to the warrior's head.

In lurid detail Porvis describes a flash of the most scintillating emerald light and Ivara's battle sibling collapsed to hot dust.-Salix Syandana Codex

Porvis tells us he compiled much of this tale from overheard exchanges between members of the Seven, and details that remained consistent in courtly whispers. He tells us the second 'frame suffered the same fate as the first.-Aksomati Codex

But the battle took place in a Cave system which was able to provide cover from the energy of the attack and even "Prime" Avia armor provided little defense less than the material provided by natural formations in a cave.

The green light lashed, touching a shoulder plate of Ivara's Avia Armor, reducing it to dust. It saved her. Huntress won out, her shot claiming the Myrmidon's device in a shower of sparks.-Avia Armor Codex

A Dax emergency call. so Porvis writes, led Ivara and two unknown Warframes to a convoluted cave system. -Salix Syandana Codex

Ivara hit the ground and sprang into a surrounding tunnel, the Myrmidon's shot lancing a gouge in the porous chamber wall.

Ivara pressed her back to a shadowed outcrop at the tunnel's end while the Myrmidon's weapon blazed and cut and chewed through her only cover -Artemis Bow

Pinned behind eroding cover, seconds from death, Ivara summoned her Artemis Bow, and it came to her. -Artemis Bow

limestone, dolomite, marble, and gypsum are the common types of stone found in cave and needless to save their temperature resistance is not overly impressive.

Energy weapons or high thermal energy seems to be pretty effective in killing Warframes.

An amped Umbra Excalibur gets one shotted by Natah, absolutely blown into smithereens. Said attack wasn't MOAB or anything like that considering a regular tree and their sword was still intact despite being in close proximity.

Ballas: "(Transference) Lua brings you strength, Umbra--" -The Sacrifice Quest

-The Sacrifice Quest


Which is consistent with other portrayal such as Excalibur getting dismembered by Corpus lasers in a few seconds

-Alad V Trailer

And three Battalyst's take out a Mag Prime

-#Warframe What Remains Comic

Tenno are routinely threatened by Grineer/Orokin Small arms fired that they have to deflect or use their powers to block or take cover from.

These bullets are incapable of punching clean through Orokin era Grineer armor and metal crates can hard stop them

-Above sources are from #Warframe 2019 Intro Cinematic

We see that when Grineer bullets are able to make contact with Excalibur they make him bleed in Warframe#1 comic

Even ignoring the obvious susceptibility to high temperatures and ballistics even explosives have shown to work from Rockets to "Nukes"

-Warframe The New War 2021 Trailer

"torn its coveted prize and a mortal threat, broke from the Tower and turned back on itself from noble Gara. But Gara's eyes were not for the Sentient - but for the glittering, man-sized device resting just beyond the gates. It had not been there before, but it was there now. It swatted Gara from the sky, drew it to herself, meaning to end her life there and then. The battle was terrible. Gara sustained injuries she would not survive. But! In her final brave seized upon the device her beloved Unum had crafted, seized it to her breast, and allowed the Sentient to draw her in one final time. Toward its core. Toward the seat of its intelligence. From within the Sentient unfurled myriad feelers, probles, tendrils - viciously-toothed and made for killing. They swept towards Gara, violently, and the Glass Warrior made no defense. Her defense was her final attack. The device detonated, and the Unum cried out as night lit as day. The battle - the terror - was ended. The Tower walls shook. The Sentient's body shuddered, wracked by a cacophonous energy. Forests fell as piece after piece, giant body after giant body crashed to the Plains and marshes and flatlands. Animals fled in spreading waves from pounding sky-high walls of dust, angered and whipped to fury by the death of a god. The last of Gara's energy arced from body-to-body, machine-to-machine, piece-to-piece, a horizon-wide applause of light beautiful and terrible. And then... silence. All was still. The Unum's adherents wandered throughout the haze, calling for one another, lost in a miasma. Husbands seizing onto wives, children onto parents. It was over. Gara was never seen again.-Ostron Cuisine

Gara described as "Unbreakable" died to an explosive device that didn't turn the Plains of Eidelon into a crater, the plains is only 5 square KM so a single to double digit kiloton weapon at MAX was able to destroy one of the tankiest Warframes there is.


This is consistent with Parvos although he used a 80 megatherm Device to vaporize an entire strike team of Warframes.

Parvos Granum: "The palace birds think they can control us. They hit our research site with a Warframe assault team. Of course they did. I baited them to do it. The whole site lit up. Eighty mega-therm bloom. The whole lab, vaporized, those Warframes with it. Fire. Fusion. Void."-Deadlock Protocol

But nukes and butt loads of munitions isn't mandatory, if you're fast/strong enough just straight up decapitation is sufficient to permanently down a Warframe.

-Warframe 2nd Dream

So you see their durability isn't all that impressive.

 

[Agent23]

Scoob, I hope you realize this thread is very funny, given how hard you whank up Bungie IPs, and not even the good original ones like Oni.

 

[Scooby Doo]

Scoob, I hope you realize this thread is very funny, given how hard you whank up Bungie IPs, and not even the good original ones like Oni.

TBF Bungie's stuff is plain OP but can be consistent.

Warframe is just consistently not that OP and I do have over a thousand hours playing Warframe.

 

[Agent23]

I stopped playing Warframe around 2016 when the Kuva grind happened. They're just anime swordsmen that can flashstep. Powerful but nothing compared to really obscenely powerlevel characters.

Yeah, that was really shit.

But then, the grind for stuff like Ships and quests related to them, and those silly Infinite Strstos flying thingies were what really annoyed me.
I stopped playing after the Coidship captain frame came out.I was likez yeah, no thanks.

 

[Agent23]

TBF Bungie's stuff is plain OP but can be consistent.

Warframe is just consistently not that OP and I do have over a thousand hours playing Warframe.

I never, ever took WF's lore or stats too seriously.
Certainly I never cared enough to actually pay much attention to possible calcs and the story was pretty stupid tbh.

Also, it is about space ninja golems mond piloted by magical ghost children.

It was a fun way to burn a few hours, but I'd rather play Darktide, or Deep Rock Galactic, or, hell, any one of a few dozen smut VNs I have.
Or my huge GoG backlog.

WF is something that should have died years ago, IMHO.Dunno how they still have a player base.

 

[Husky_Khan]

Watching the Deathbattle video right now. One of the flaws of Deathbattles style Versus is that it's an evolution of feats but instead of just listing feats and using only the high level ones, it then transcends into scaling. As in... if this Warframe can do it, so can all of them, all the time.

You see this all the time with YouTube Versus videos, which all seem to be inspired to a degree by Death Battles. It's all scaling and high end feats based performance instead of a more holistic approach of "Hey... look at how they actually fight." This is why the Heisei Godzilla era is somehow a planet buster yet Earth is still somehow intact, because there's some random Space Godzilla feat of him cracking open planets IIRC so therefore if Godzilla defeated him, then blah blah blah it all scales.

One of the feats mentioned in the video, if not several of them, seemed to be scaled to other Warframes and it wasn't even a clip from a cutscene but actually just a lore blurb from somewhere about asteroids.

Meanwhile you look at the actual gameplay and cutscene clips and you see Raiden slashing a helicopter apart a dozen times while the rain is frozen, slicing bullets out of the air, and chopping future aerial gunship missiles out of the air... and then you replay the Warframe clip of Excalibur repeatedly rolling and jumping behind cover to protect himself from massed small arms fire...



They also did a laser beam blocking feat which they "calc'd" to 9.4% of lightspeed but it's like... *sighs* This iis the same sort of logic that has MCU characters being calc'd or rated at faster than lightning. It's because they dodge lightning... so therefore they are faster than lightning... thus everyone they fight in the MCU scales to their speed... etc.

 

[Scooby Doo]

#Debunking number 3. Atlas ONE SHOTTED A MRTEOR, GARA BLOW UP EIDELIN ONE HIT!, WISP SHOOTS STARS!!! RHINO STOMP TIME SI HARD HAHAH!.

Four feats I wanted to cover that are very often misrepresented and taken OOC. First is the Atlas Feat which it blends Truth with Fannon.

Spoiler: Full Story of Atlas feats

This is Atlas. Hard as stone. Is it any surprise that his story begins with an asteroid?

Temple Telamon had cast a spell on the indentured masses with a song that heralded the coming of a great stone destroyer. A god who would shatter the world and lead them to a great rebirth. The Orokin mocked the cult's off-key singing, their spasmodic dancing, but the spell only grew stronger. Telamon broadcasts would oft-times wedge into controlled channels to spread their doomsday message.

For the suffocated lower castes, the notion of something more powerful than their Orokin masters must have been intoxicating. A brutal Orokin crackdown seemed to be working, until... an asteroid was detected on a collision course with Earth. The Telamons celebrated it as prophecy writ true. Divine intervention. For the first time in living memory, the Orokin showed vulnerability.

It did not matter that the destruction would be total. For the Temple, this was a sign of a new age -Introduction

A probe was sent to the asteroid, perhaps seeking proof of divine intervention. It found intervention, though it was anything but divine.

The rock had been fitted with colossal steering thrusters and manning those thrusters, a bevy of well-armed Telamon. Having taken fate to their own hands, they set about a final convulsive dance aboard that rock. Battlecruisers, Orgon missiles, a gale-force of Dax... the Orokin could have resolved this in any number of ways. But their enemy was not the Telamons themselves. It was their ideas. Atlas, alone, was sent.

As he crashed onto that rock, his Shikoro helm greeted the cultists. Note the angled ballistic plating and reinforced neck protection.

He would soon need both. -Atlas Shikoro Helmet

For years, historians felt this 'Tale of Telamon' quite improbable, an artifact of Orokin propaganda-myth.

Then, on our system's outer edge, we found a debris field of small rocks and dust in a lazy elliptical orbit. Upon these rocks, we find the remains of peculiar stone statuary. The petrified figures, clearly Temple members, have been frozen into a tableau of struggle and death.

Or was it, perhaps, a dance? This remarkable find forces us to rethink the entire tale as fact. -Tableau of Telamon

The Stratum Syandana. Reserved and austere, until you turn it over and reveal the glowing hue of the amethyst crystal within.

A breathtaking geode. Imagine its spiralling ribbons as Atlas tore toward the killer asteroid's thrusters. His plan must have been to reorient them and push the rock away from Earth. But, as the story goes, as he neared, the cultists detonated the thruster's footings and sent them careening into space. They were no longer needed. Mass and inertia would carry the rock to its fate.

Atlas was out of options. Or so the Telamons thought. -Stratum Syandana

The Tekko are, perhaps my favorite pieces in this gallery. Note the intricate, ornate moldings, the complex blades. Quite the contrast from Atlas's otherwise workmanlike appearance.

The beauty and craftsmanship conceal the true purpose of the Tekko, as indentations found in cultist's skulls attest.

I have to wonder what frenzied dance would have been interrupted, or, if the whiplash strikes and jabs of the Tekko might have blended into the crowd's fitful celebration? -Tekko

Before you, a rare sight: two Rumblers, painstakingly recreated from fragments of the aforementioned Tableau.

How these inert and rigid formations are compelled to life by Atlas defies reason. Yet, it is true. Consider the confusion of those Telamons as the very stone they worshipped came to life and set upon them. How could they retaliate against such a thing?

Like sparring with a landslide.-Rumblers

Earth swelled on the horizon, as the cult mocked Atlas with their chorus: "The stone shall shatter all!"

Across the system, every Telamon echoed that final hymn. Children, as far as Neptune, turned their heads from greasy broth and gazed toward Earth. Would that careening stone change... everything? Atlas kneeled down, head and hands pressed to the ground in apparent defeat as the Telamon's hymn grew even louder.

But Atlas was listening, feeling, the way the stone trembled to the hymn's pitch. The faults within the asteroid became vivid to him... and so a new song rose up. Rumblers. Erupting in a god-like rhythm, beating along the faults until Atlas, alone, struck the final, resonant chord.

A tremor forked through the rock until, all at once, the great asteroid exploded, its dust falling as scintillating rain sparking across the atmosphere, and then... gone. The Telamon's song fell silent and children, as far as Neptune, turned away and swirled their spoons in greasy broth.- Atlas

So the thing with this feat is we need to know what is an accurate representation of the feat.

1. How large is the meteor?
(Unknown it was said to "Shatter the Earth" and "Destroy all" which is entirely subjective and unquantifiable) what we can do in good faith is go with Occam's Razor what makes the most sense. A bunch of rebelling cultists being able to abscond with enough equipment to redirect a massive asteroid is going to take an enormous amount of resources that wouldn't be easy to do.

So a literal Earth sized asteroid is just beyond possible for slaves of the Orokin Empire to severely smuggle in mass, the amount of Capitalship scale thrusters being stolen would have them easily discovered and neutralized

2. How long it took Atlas to destroy the Meteor?
Again no timeframe is given although it was most definitely not an immediate process which is a big thing people forget about this feat. Atlas never truly "One Shotted" it as he had Rumblers hitting across a fault line for an unknown amount of time before he struck the final blow.

But Atlas was listening, feeling, the way the stone trembled to the hymn's pitch. The faults within the asteroid became vivid to him... and so a new song rose up. Rumblers. Erupting in a god-like rhythm, beating along the faults until Atlas,

It's the equivalent of someone chipping at a rocks weak spots and then the 2nd person coming in to hit the final strike. Aka Atlas DID NOT do this

He did this

Reminder of what a fault line is

Fault | Definition & Types. Fault, in geology, a planar or gently curved fracture in the rocks of Earth's crust, where compressional or tensional forces cause relative displacement of the rocks on the opposite sides of the fracture. Faults range in length from a few centimetres to many hundreds of kilometres, and displacement likewise may range from less than a centimetre to several hundred kilometres along the fracture surface (the fault plane).

So Atlas with his Rumblers created a chain reaction by softening several sections of the meteor up for the final punch that shattered it. This is still a superhuman feat easily in the tens or hundreds of thousands of metric tons for his Rumblers and him and it still exploded which could be interpreted as a combination of tension and Atlas strength but it's still up to interpretation for the final yield because obviously the bigger the asteroid is the greater the final result.

Still important to note the feat wouldn't be possible without him having prep time, this feat also hasn't been replicated when it could have been convenient for example you can unlock Atlas in Eris which is before the Kuva Fortress map becomes available but instead of destroying the Kuva Fortress with Atlas that is never even considered as an option instead you have to stealth your way through.

The only difference between the Kuva Fortress and a regular asteroid is the Kuva Fortress

Is reinforced with metal through out its entire structure so it likely doesn't have many fault lines for Atlas to exploit.


3. How much of the meteor remained after he destroyed it?

Everyone says it was exploded to dust or outright vaporized but if this was true that would be an energy output in the hundreds of gigatons which would have been more than enough to vaporize everything which we know is false because petrified statues of cultists were found and a bunch of stone statues isn't surviving Gigatons, but let's say if the asteroid split apart violently it's possible for the statues to have survived.

All in all you can really argue that Atlas at his absolute strongest can be with in an order or two of a magnitude of the energy needed to bust a meteor but it requires preparation to do so and his regular striking strength is significantly below nuclear weapon output.

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Now for Gara she did blow up a Eidelon but she used an explosive device not her own power

The device detonated, and the Unum cried out as night lit as day.-Ostron Cuisine

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Wisp doesn't shoot out stars she creates a worm hole to a Star and fires the plasma.

The sun's outer atmosphere, the corona,  is made up of plasma, meaning the violent conditions have stripped atoms of their electrons. Solar scientists believe high-energy particles are generated in this highly turbulent sea of stripped atoms (ions) and electrons. Source: https://www.space.com/high-energy-particles-source-space-weather#:~:text=The%20sun's%20outer%20atmosphere%2C%20the,atoms%20(ions)%20and%20electrons.

So one million C to up to maximum 40 million C, very excellent energy output but not literally shooting stars out.

Next up
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Rhino stomping hard enough to stop time isn't a result of strength but using their void energy through stomping, so many people fail basic critical thinking it surprises me.

Rhino's stomp is an ability provided by void energy so he's not stomping so hard because of physical strength but through literal magic. How do we know this? By literally looking.

This is what happens when he does a ground slam without energy

This is when he uses his stomp

Notice the glowing? That's the magic effect working not his raw strength, if it was raw strength he wouldn't need to do a specific stomp move his regular punches and ground attacks would be doing it with every attack.

It took him five seconds of punching to soften up an already damaged Zanuka (Who got hit by a barrage of other attacks before Rhino started pummeling him further) notice how he's not slowing down time with each punch or how Zanuka is not glowing from the punches?

If Rhino was using pure strength every time he used his punches/kicks then time would be slowing all the time and he would have no reason to not abuse this ability if it didn't require energy.


There's a difference between I punch so hard X happens and I use magic to enhance my punch for x to happen

 

[Husky_Khan]

I think the Raiden vs. Wolverine fight needs to be revised as well. Wolverine has fought Thor and Hulk and even drew even and close to defeating them before and via scaling we know they have taken on far more powerful foes. Breaking Galactus' armor and knocking him over, or destroying an entire planet. If Wolverine is just 1/100th (like they said of Excalibur in regards to Atlas) of that planet busting, orbit shifting power that Thor had, Wolverine should stomp both Raiden AND Excalibur... AT THE SAME TIME. Like a threesome!

 

[Him]

I think the Raiden vs. Wolverine fight needs to be revised as well. Wolverine has fought Thor and Hulk and even drew even and close to defeating them before and via scaling we know they have taken on far more powerful foes. Breaking Galactus' armor and knocking him over, or destroying an entire planet. If Wolverine is just 1/100th (like they said of Excalibur in regards to Atlas) of that planet busting, orbit shifting power that Thor had, Wolverine should stomp both Raiden AND Excalibur... AT THE SAME TIME. Like a threesome!

This post is intrinsically dishonest. You don't conclude a characters power level purely off of scaling or their own separate feats, you take their showings In totality and come to conclusion on where they consistently stand.

That being of Wolverine having adamantium claws that are capable of cleaving surfer open and absolutely cutting Thor, regardless of him holding back on earth or not.

The issue is, he doesn't have the stats to match, but that doesn't mean we can be completely ignorant of characters capabilities and how they interact with each other.

 

[Him]

Wolverine would fuck Raiden up tbh, you ain't keeping him down or bisecting him, and they aren't that far apart in stats without factoring in his superior endurance and claw win-con.

 

[Husky_Khan]

Thus now we know that when Hulk lost to Broly in Deathbattles, Wolverine still scaled to Hulk and therefore Wolverine actually scales to Broly, who in turn scales to Son Goku and thus... yes my friends, Wolverine scales to Superman and the One Punch Man. I'm not saying he'd win, but I'm waiting for the Death Battle to occur.

Thus this means, since Raiden scales to Wolverine and defeated him in a Deathbattle, Raiden actually scales to Superman, who is so far above asteroid faultline fracturing busting Atlas as to be incontestable.

Therefore, consequently, concordantly, Raiden can take on at least one hundred Excaliburs because in this Death Battle, they gave Excalibur 1/100th the strength of Atlas' asteroid busting feat and that was still considered high end. The new Death Battle should've been Wolverine and Raiden versus all of the Warframes.

 

[Scooby Doo]

Guys try to be on topic this is debunk Warframe plz.

 

[Him]

Warframe sucks.

 

[Scooby Doo]

Just some additional supporting sources for Debunk 2.

DE illustrated a partial fight scene of Ivara against the Myrmidon

These blasts weren't that impressive but apparently were powerful enough to OHK several Warframes with a single direct hit.

A single Aerolyst (A support unit not even a Boss) in one attack is able to incapacitate an Excalibur Prime this is relevant because people very often say base Excalibur is thousands to hundreds of times weaker than if he's "Fully Kitted" an Excalibur Prime is fully kitted but here we see a single fodder overwhelm him and require outside assistance to be saved. (Ergo, Lore wise there is NO massive gap between Excalibur with full/best equipment and vanilla equipment)

Sentients (Possibly with help from Era) are even able to kill other "Prime" Frames such as Nova Prime and Mag Prime which is relevant because certain people have argued that Warframes can get up indefinitely. Like wise you have arguments of the NFL that is Iron Skin, yet we see a Dead Rhino (That's the body Kal 175 is moving) where the Grineer were fighting the Sentients, if Iron Skin gave infinite durability and was full proof then the Rhino frame should have never died.

Now you may then hear the argument but they're Sentients they have infinite adaption!!? We have a mortal Grineer no special powers just standard gear that ALL Grineer have is more than able to kill Sentients in a very quick amount of time.

A single burst from the rifle and a single swing from the sword. (This is a scripted story sequence so it takes precedence over game mechanics)

So in summary even the strongest versions of frames (Nova Prime, Excalibur Prime, Mag Prime) have died or been overwhelmed by conventional Sentient forces and even the frames with Defense niches like Rhino are no exception.

These same Sentients can be killed be people with absolutely no super powers (Phasing/Teleportation/Super Healing/Mind Hax or whatever) just a good gun is more than enough, if a good gun is more than enough then the Warframes didn't die because they didn't have the damage output to kill the Sentients but rather they didn't have the resilience to survive the attacks indefinitely.

 

[Scooby Doo]

#Debunking number 4. Warframes can tank the heat of the sun, Voruna shook the Moon and Void beams DELETE ALL MATTER AND REALITY UPON CONTACT!!!! IT'S UNSTOPABLEZ, TENNO ARE IMMORTAL AND CAN NEVER DIIIJEEEEEDDJDJSJZN!!!

The first claim originates from the Ballas fight but people who say this literally took no more than a few seconds of staring at the screen to come to that conclusion and didn't bother to analyze the scene so here's the context of why the Warframes did not take the heat of the sun or anywhere near it.

TLDR; Ballas wants to use a unique Sentient capital ship that has the ability to consume the energy of a star in order to destroy it. Relevant time stamps below

07:55

Cephalon Cy: "Weird that thing appears to be eating the sun"
Tenno: "We have got to stop it. What if, what if we approach using the wrecked ships as cover?"

09:40

Cephalon Cy: "The Railjack is cooking. Hug the shadows or we are done."

The Necramech which is >>>Tenno takes damage just from being near the Solar Blasts, Erra who survived six Tenno shooting 12 Void Beams (Sun>>>6 Tenno) at him gets killed by the sun's heat.

The Tenno ducked underneath the Flames which wouldn't be necessary if he can withstand it, plus Erra is stronger than any Tenno 1v1 so if he who is stronger can get killed by the blast what do you think happens to someone weaker?

Furthermore in the final fight the Tenno are protected by the ship we know this because there's still an atmosphere on the ship, we know there's an atmosphere because the Tenno are able to speak which wouldn't be possible in the vacuum of space. We know Warframes can't survive in a vacuum without special equipment.

This is confirmed by Lotus twice during survival missions so it's not gameplay mechanics.

Lotus: "Life support has been cut off. They're trying to choke you out. Hold on, I'm sending auxiliary life support."

Lotus: "Predictable. As expected, Grineer has shut down the environmental systems. Sending modified life support capsules. Use these to sustain your environment or attach Kuva catalysts to begin harvesting."

So to sum up

If Warframes can fight on the surface of the sun why was the Tenno advocating for using cover of other ships to protect them, why did Cy say they would BOTH die if they didn't stick to the shadows? How can the Tenno survive when Erra who can withstand the power of six Tenno couldn't? Why did a Necramech which is confirmed to be more resilient take damage and have to avoid the solar flares but the Tenno and Warframe could hop around no problem?



The answer is that a combination of the Sentient ship was actively redirecting the suns energy into itself and simultaneously providing a protective atmosphere for the inhabitants aboard the ship.


Part 2 of Debunk 4# follows below.

 

[Agent23]

Dude, it is all blingy game mechanics.

 

[Scooby Doo]

Voruna never shook the moon here is the full lore.

Spoiler: Big Lore Dump

H

Impressive, isn't she? The relentless hunting shadow of the night of Naga drums. The last thing many an Orokin lord ever saw. Voruna, She-Wolf Incarnadine. The Heart of the Pack. Hunter of god-prey.

We remember her as a primal horror. The pitless devourer stalking burning cities of white-and-gold, slavering for god-flesh.

This was not always so! Once, Voruna was the obedient guardian of the Circulus, the holiest of Yuvan temples upon none other than veiled Lua. Like a loyal beast, Voruna would roam Lua with her four steel-maned wolves: the stealthy Dynar, the invigorating Raksh, the stalwart Lycath, and the fierce Ulfrun. But what they were sworn to guard was perverse, wrong. In a ceremony reeking of Kuva, the Orokin candidate would force their consciousness into the new chosen body - the Yuvan - consigning the mind of the hapless former owner to oblivion. They called this life-extending process... 'Continuity'.

Executor Tuvul was one of the ruling Seven and head of the Yuvan Clerisy: high-ranking officiators who enacted the hideous ritual. All of whom... were now all dead, torn apart, all save for Tuvul... now a man pursued. He abandons his family to that night of horrors, his friends to the flames, and whips his slaves to ferry his decrepit, dying body to... his personal ship. Destination? Void-locked Lua. Purpose? To initiate one final ceremony. To trade one last body - one last life - for his own. Before the Empire burned.

To slip the noose and escape the relentless hunting shadow that had, one-by-one, in just one night, found and eviscerated every last one of his Clerisy peers. The shadow that had once protected them.

I never liked Tuvul. What followed made me loathe him even more.

Here is Dynar, the shadowed. He gave Voruna the gift of stealth that she might only take by surprise - but never be taken.

Hm. Let us speak of what made the Circulus special: the first Void Conjunction.

It came suddenly, steeping Lua in malevolent, lashing Void-stuff. Within the moon-plasm, thoughts took horrifying physical forms. Imaged dredged up from childhood nightmares, or adult neuroses were abruptly tangible and real. Madness overtook many.

It was to this place - the Circulus - that Tuvul fled through a Void tormented by an extremely unusual Conjunction. Thrashing eddies, violent currents, and the appearance of horrifying beasts never seen before or since. It was as if, some noted, the fabric of the universe echoed the upheaval tearing apart the fabric of the Origin System. Coincidence? I have lived too long to believe so but can provide no explanation greater than that.

Hoping against hope that the Void would keep the shadow that stalked him from picking up his trail, Tuvul touched down upon the powdery skin of sacred Lua.

What Tuvul lacked in loyalty, he made up for with rat cunning. He should have known better.

It is unclear precisely why Lua is a site of very special Void Conjunctions, but enacting Continuity within the Circulus and Yuvarium thereupon guaranteed a safe and strong transition... so long as certain rituals were correctly observed.

A privilege reserved only for the Seven themselves.

Imagine the scene as the innocent Yuvan would have witnessed it. The vivid insanity of it all. The appointed Soprana bridging the gap between worlds with her song. The Orokin Executor shrilling the ritual worlds. The bone-white Void creeping in on all the fronts. The Kuva steaming scarlet in its glass bowl. And the imposing wolf-giant, Voruna, pacing the perimeter, four loyal wolves at her side.

This wolf you see here is Raksh, the defender, Voruna's own loyal guardian, as she protected her Orokin overlord from whatever madnesses the Void Conjunction would bring.

Of which there were many. And on that night, Tuvul had no such guardian. Quite the opposite.

Now, Tuvul would need flesh into which he could pass, but the shipments of fresh young bodies from across the System were no more. Tuvul, we will see, had laid a dark contingency.

Rat cunning, as I said.

The third of Voruna's wolves. Lycath, the stalwart brother, the provider, and soul of the pack.

We know that Voruna and her wolves had served rite and rite. She had watched the mists and savagely destroyed anything that menaced the ceremony, flanked by Lycath's fury.

The Yuvan Ceremony - 'Continuity' as they called it - was an obscenity. The Orokin elite, aged and foul, would slouch and leer as the 'Yuvan' - young men and women cultivated on red Mars and worlds beyond for this dire purpose - were paraded before them. They would make their choice, conduct the ritual, and then, well, that young life would be gone, and when those eyes opened once more, it would be their murderer looking out from behind them.

Is it any wonder Voruna, freed from the leash of loyalty, was so intent upon making a meal of the Yuvan Clerisy? I think not.

Let's get to dessert, shall we?

Behold: Ulfrun the Fierce. The most formidable of Voruna's spet.

Executor Tuvul scrambled to set up the ritual room. This time the ceremony was different. Instead of a Soprana, there was a mere Mandachord playing automated notes. And instead of the prepared Yuvan, there was a most unusual cryopod - containing a young child, sleeping peacefully. The aforementioned contingency.

In Tuvul's hands, so it is said, were an artifact and a codex belonging to none other than Albrecht Entrati himself: Father of Void Travel and a man who had sacrificed his sanity to it.

Tuvul opened the book to pages strange and profane. We know this, having retrieved it from the site much later. It is my belief that Tuvul intended to protect himself from the horrors the Void would unleash, using what amounted to a madman's grimoire. A desperate act indeed.

I like to imagine that, as he parted his withered lips to begin the ceremony, to call down the Void... that was the moment he heard Ulfrun's ravening howl.

From Void signatures, evidence at the site, and what recording technology survived that once-in-a-lifetime Void Conjuration, I infer the following. Forgive an old man some dramatic license.

The Kuva was poured, the lamps were lit, and the ritual of Continuity began.

As Tuvul intoned the barbarous versicles of Continuity, a horde the breadth of which had never before been seen at such a ceremony massed in the gathering Void. Things with two heads or none, lopsided, broken-horned, perhaps drawing their being from Tuvul himself, as if expressions of his vice.

At this moment, I believe Voruna and her pack attacked, hoping to end the ceremony before it began. No such luck. The circle site was later found to be treacherous with the remnants of slain abominations.

Voruna and her wolves tore into the manifestations, rending with axe and fang. While Tuvul droned on, panicked, the pack hacked and tore their way through the throng toward him.

Why was Tuvul not the first to fall? I cannot answer. Perhaps Albrecht's work had something to it. Or perhaps those beasts simply understood that this wretched old man was the only thing keeping the door open for them.

Tremors shook the surface of Lua, and a great cry rang out, like that of a mother crying for her children. Tuvul sweated. The Kuva trembled in its bowl.

Voruna was relentless, demons falling to blade and fang. But it was not enough. The hordes of the Void are without number, and this one? If Hell has a Hell, then those monsters knew it well.

Gentle-eyed Raksh was the first to fall to the scything blades. They killed Lycath next, then Dynar, and Ulfrun last of all. Voruna had howled many times before, in hunger, in anger, and in triumph, but now for the first time, she howled in grief.

Voruna trod and swung without relent toward the circle - carrying, by their silver scruffs, the severed heads of her fallen, beloved wolves. Severed from their dead bodies by her own hand.

With one last ululating cry, Tuvul's ritual had reached its peak. Within the cryopod, the child's eyelids fluttered and Voruna... staggered. In what scratchy stills survived in Void-corrupted datamasses, what I saw between child and Warframe was... recognition.

Tuvul took some meager scrap of courage from this delay and reached for the bowl of Kuva, now boiling and steaming with weird energies.

Voruna struck him aside and seized the energized Kuva - not for herself, but for her wolves. Holding it high, she doused herself - and her slain packmates - with it.

Embraced by the seething crimson glow, connective tissues propagated. Sinew reached for bone, and within that marriage of occultism and science, she and her beloved wolves became one.

Her brethren lived again. In her. Voruna was now, and evermore, the heart of the pack.

Cheated of his continuity, Tuvul turned to flee. But his former warden was having none of it.

Those who came after found nothing but gnawed bones, some of them unusually long, twisted within shreds of white-gold raiments.

Good.

I did salvage one final image from those Void-corrupted datamasses, however. That of Voruna herself, striding back toward her craft, the child cradled in her arms.

Curious.

The part taken out of context.

Tremors shook the surface of Lua, and a great cry rang out, like that of a mother crying for her children. Tuvul sweated. The Kuva trembled in its bowl.

She's not shaking the Moon with her howls. She fought a large number of Void Demons with her Wolves that died helping her which then made her cry in grief.

The Void Demons came from a breach created by a void ritual

The Kuva was poured, the lamps were lit, and the ritual of Continuity began.

As Tuvul intoned the barbarous versicles of Continuity, a horde the breadth of which had never before been seen at such a ceremony massed in the gathering Void. Things with two heads or none, lopsided, broken-horned, perhaps drawing their being from Tuvul himself, as if expressions of his vice.

Why was Tuvul not the first to fall? I cannot answer. Perhaps Albrecht's work had something to it. Or perhaps those beasts simply understood that this wretched old man was the only thing keeping the door open for them.

The tremor was likely from the ritual of continuity, Voruna later physical strikes the guy she was wanting to kill and instead of it killing him in one blow it just knocked him down.

this delay and reached for the bowl of Kuva, now boiling and steaming with weird energies.

Voruna struck him aside and seized the energized Kuva - not for herself, but for her wolves. Holding it high, she doused herself - and her slain packmates - with it.

This literally was just a geriatric guy who she had no reason to hold back against. So she definitely isn't in moon shaking strength.

Next up Void Beams can destroy all matter and reality. This is obvious cap for starters Erra tanked SIX Tenno firing void beams the same Erra died to a beam from the sun.

This is a VERY bad anti feat for Tenno because Sentients are explicitly weak to Void energy but here he tanked twelve beams without dying.

This is consistent too, the Ropalolyst Boss is able to tank these beams indefinitely and is in fact invulnerable to it once its shields are stripped

The Ropalolyst without its shields can die to City lvl AP.

Alad: "There's enough juice in that capacitor to flash-fry a city—but no way to bring it to the beast."

Tenno Void Beams are far below City lvl AP


Lastly Tenno immortality, Tenno are MORE than capable of dying.

1st Rhino Prime Codex says there was a morgue for the Tenno which wouldn't be necessary if they could NOT die.

"I crawl up the wall to stand, opposite the door. I've never seen this cell, a cold place with an array of shelves. A morgue? "Where are we, Davis?"

"This is where they keep them. The ones from Zariman." I'm thrown, what was the Zariman? The ship that never returned? "Davis, what's going on?"

-Rhino Prime Codex

2nd Cy a Orokin Era Cephalon said that getting hit by a solar flare would kill them if they don't stick to the shadows.

3rd Erra said that YOUR people (Tenno) would die if the sun was destroyed.

4th the Tenno did in fact die when Ballas stabbed them.

5th Ballas was certain the Void would have prevented them from coming back to life so normally it should have been sufficient, what happened was the Tenno literally got resurrected by a combination of the Drifter and Man in The Wall

Man in the Wall makes a Deal

The Man In the Wall connects the Drifter and Tenno together

The connection gives the Drifter void powers

The Drifter in a clash with Lotus then brings the Operator back through freak accident.


Without a combination of the Drifter and the Man in The Wall the Tenno would be 100% dead, why? Well Lotus was begging Ballas to spare the Tenno after they were resurrected, Lotus wouldn't have to beg if the Tenno could revive without specific special conditions

Lotus: "Ballas! Stop! Spare them! Spare them... and I will be whatever you want."

Ballas: "And when the child is dead you and I will have words"

6th Tenno were confirmed to be have mortal bodies during the Chains of Harrow Quest where you put to rest a Tenno who transferred his soul to their frame so they could live longer.

Lotus: "How could Rell have lived this long? Without the long dream?"

Palladino: "In a way, he didn't. He knew his mortality would undo his purpose, so he gave up his humanity, forever. He committed his soul to the undying vessel-"

So enough with the bullshit of immortal unstoppable unharmable unkillable Tenno, they're "tough" but no where as good as they're overrated to be.

 

[Scooby Doo]

5th Ballas was certain the Void would have prevented them from coming back to life so normally it should have been sufficient, what happened was the Tenno literally got resurrected by a combination of the Drifter and Man in The Wall