The Americas The Tyranny of Trudeau's Canada

[Zachowon]

In summary,
Things may be bad for us, but everyone else is worse off.

 

[mrttao]

And here's the key place you're wrong.

America is not losing trade war with Russia, with China, or with both.

Russia and China are both in the process of long-term bad decisions tantamount to economic suicide catching up with them.

The US is dealing with a number of long-term drags on its economy, combined with short-term attempts to kill it by the Biden administration.

Neither China nor Russia have anything going for them that suggests a positive economic future. They're in demographic collapse, they have no friends, few allies of convenience, have actively pissed off their most important trading partners, lack the fundamental capacity to be self-sufficient at anything approaching a modern economic level, and most importantly, nothing they provide to the rest of the world cannot be gathered from somewhere else. All of this is before getting into the fact that they are some of the most corrupt nations in the world, actively deterring attempts to fix their entrenched cultural and institutional problems, and also stifling innovation.

China's economic growth for the last 40 years was built on the back of cheap labor. It is now outcompeted for this by many other nations, which also do not come with the massive negative side-effects to dealing with the Chinese. Russia's economy is based on resource extraction, their capacity for advanced manufacturing is pathetic, and degrading, not improving, as their old talent dies off and their young talent flees the country to avoid being drafted, both of these in increasing numbers.

The USA has a superior resource extraction economy to the Russians, and once we stop having a Dem in the white house shoot us in the foot regularly, Russia getting booted out of the energy market will make us shit-tons of cash money as we export to Europe.

There is nothing China does for the USA that the USA cannot do itself, the only thing they had was that they'd do the same things cheaper, albeit also generally at lower quality. Now they don't even have that going compared to other options.


The USA is suffering weak growth compared to what it's used to right now. If you correct for funny numbers games and inflation, we may arguably be stagnant or slightly contracting economically. China and Russia are barreling towards economic implosion.

To claim they're 'beating us in a trade war' is to show you have no idea what you're talking about.

USA, China, and Russia are all rushing towards economic collapse.
USA is rushing towards it at a slightly faster pace.
USA is trying its hardest to make things worse, while Russia and China are actually trying to fix their shit instead.
USA looks like it will collapse first at the current rate.

Also, Russia is making even more on oil and gas than it did before the start of the embargos. The embargos initially hit their economy, but the embargos failed and now they are making more.

1. Our demographic collapse is nowhere near as bad as almost anywhere else in the first world. The Millennial generation in the USA is proportionately larger than basically anywhere else, and while our birth rates are continuing to decline, they have not declined anywhere near as far or fast yet as the rest of the modern world's.

2. Excess immigration is a problem, but it is not the same kind of existential threat it is in Europe. Europe is largely being inundated by military-age islamists who want to destroy western civilization, and get a free ride off of European welfare states as part of doing so. America is largely being inundated with Latin American catholics who actually are coming here to work, even if they're doing so illegally.

LordsFire, the demographic issues of the USA are far more severe than you make them out to be.

China has started sending in bulk shipments of loyal CCP people through the mexican borders. (there was even a congressional hearing about this. which MSM did not report).
And the mexican drug cartels are now active in the USA and killing people.

You should check the current under 18 demographics and see where they come from.

Also, regardless of the intent, they bring with them a culture of 3rd world corruption... then again, that is tossing stones in a glass house nowadays since USA has proven itself to be a banana republic.

 

[LordsFire]

USA, China, and Russia are all rushing towards economic collapse.
USA is rushing towards it at a slightly faster pace.
USA is trying its hardest to make things worse, while Russia and China are actually trying to fix their shit instead.
USA looks like it will collapse first at the current rate.

Also, Russia is making even more on oil and gas than it did before the start of the embargos. The embargos initially hit their economy, but the embargos failed and now they are making more.

LordsFire, the demographic issues of the USA are far more severe than you make them out to be.

No, the US is not rushing towards economic collapse at a faster pace. Plus, unlike almost any other modern nation, we are one election away from turning things into a much healthier direction.
Some people in the US are trying to make it worse, some are trying to make it better. Russian Oligarchs are more interested in protecting their personal economic fiefs than the overall health of their nation or economy, and the CCP has been backtracking the free market reforms that helped China become somewhat prosperous for years. They are not trying to 'fix their shit,' they're making things actively worse.

On what basis do you say the USA will collapse first?

Russia can produce all the raw materials it wants. That will allow them to continue as the stagnant nation they are, but it isn't enough for true growth. Becoming someone else's resource colony is not a path to success.


How about you compare the US demographic situation to that of other developed nations, then explain to me how it's actually worse than I thought.

 

[mrttao]

No, the US is not rushing towards economic collapse at a faster pace. Plus, unlike almost any other modern nation, we are one election away from turning things into a much healthier direction.

We literally have our main candidate, trump, sitting in prison right now.
Please forgive me if I remain skeptical of the integrity of the 2024 elections.

And here is the key. Your estimate is based off of successfully ousting the parasites in 2024. Sure, that would completely turn around the situation for the USA. Same for any country.

Some people in the US are trying to make it worse, some are trying to make it better. Russian Oligarchs are more interested in protecting their personal economic fiefs than the overall health of their nation or economy

USA oligarchs also want to protect their fiefs more than benefit the nation.
With an added bonus of being psychopaths who hate the country and hate its people and want to see them all destroyed and subjugated.
They also view themselves as global oligarchs and plan to hop around between the western nations as they collapse and rebuild

How about you compare the US demographic situation to that of other developed nations, then explain to me how it's actually worse than I thought.

>> I only have only been shot with a single bullet, tis nothing but a flesh wound. Therefore I am the least injured guy in this hospital
> Doctor: No, it is much worse than you say. you have been shot 6 times. there are 5 additional bullet wounds you are not reporting
>> Well this guy over there has been shot 12 times. Go ahead and compare my injuries to his and explain to me how I am not the least shot up person in the hospital!

Comparing to other countries is immaterial to argument on whether or not you are under reporting the issues the USA has.
Before starting on a comparison we first need to correctly analyze the situation in the USA.

 

[LordsFire]

Comparing to other countries is immaterial to argument on whether or not you are under reporting the issues the USA has.
Before starting on a comparison we first need to correctly analyze the situation in the USA.

You can make comparative metaphors all you want, but you're neither addressing the point I have been making (The US is and looks to continue to be financially stronger than Russia and China), nor presenting any evidence that the situation is worse than I think.

You aren't making an argument here, just an assertion with no support.

 

[mrttao]

You can make comparative metaphors all you want, but you're neither addressing the point I have been making (The US is and looks to continue to be financially stronger than Russia and China), nor presenting any evidence that the situation is worse than I think.

You aren't making an argument here, just an assertion with no support.

1. you are using the word "stronger" here. but we have been arguing resilience not strength. Specifically, how far away they are from collapse.

2. You argue that:
A = insert analysis of USA
B = insert analysis of Russia and China
Therefore A > B.

I am telling you that your value for A are wrong
Whether A > B or B > A is utterly immaterial to the debate on whether or not you valued A incorrectly.

You are just flat out refusing to defend your position about the current status of value A (USA status) unless I can first prove to you that B > A.
Which is silly.

Any actual debate on comparing A and B can and should wait until we first resolve the disagreement about A.

As for the claim that I am just asserting stuff without support. Here is just some of the support from the last page

China has started sending in bulk shipments of loyal CCP people through the mexican borders. (there was even a congressional hearing about this. which MSM did not report).
And the mexican drug cartels are now active in the USA and killing people.

You should check the current under 18 demographics and see where they come from.

Also, regardless of the intent, they bring with them a culture of 3rd world corruption... then again, that is tossing stones in a glass house nowadays since USA has proven itself to be a banana republic.

Are you trying to pretend this does not exist?
Or are you asking me for citations for these?
or what?

 

[Captain X]

Hey, we're supposed to be bitching about Canada here.

 

[TheRomanSlayer]

Hey, we're supposed to be bitching about Canada here.

The only thing left for Canada if things continue on this path may end up being absorbed into the USA, the ones that are willing to be absorbed. Although I am not sure just how strong and weak Canadian nationalism is, given that the whole “at least we aren’t America” may soon ring hollow.

 

[Cherico]

The only thing left for Canada if things continue on this path may end up being absorbed into the USA, the ones that are willing to be absorbed. Although I am not sure just how strong and weak Canadian nationalism is, given that the whole “at least we aren’t America” may soon ring hollow.

Canada just has a whole lot of structural problems as a country.

Some of it is geography, some of its strutural but I'm going to put a large chunk of the blame for canada's current problems on trying to keep quebec at all costs. thats the primary thing thats fucking them up as a country if they had just let them go in the 90s canada could have rebuilt itself on a more sound foundation.

As is they pretty much wreaked themselves keeping quebec in.

 

[TheRomanSlayer]

Canada just has a whole lot of structural problems as a country.

Some of it is geography, some of its strutural but I'm going to put a large chunk of the blame for canada's current problems on trying to keep quebec at all costs. thats the primary thing thats fucking them up as a country if they had just let them go in the 90s canada could have rebuilt itself on a more sound foundation.

As is they pretty much wreaked themselves keeping quebec in.

Without Quebec, Canada would practically be Ontario writ large, with the West as its oversized colony. Plus keeping Quebec in gives Canada that kind of flavor of being the progressive version of the US. At LeAsT WeRe NoT aMeRiCa kind of thing.

How would a Canada without Quebec actually develop? Moreover, you’d also have parts of Quebec that want to remain in Canada, so it’s going to be a bigger gong show than it already is.

 

[mrttao]

Without Quebec, Canada would practically be Ontario writ large, with the West as its oversized colony. Plus keeping Quebec in gives Canada that kind of flavor of being the progressive version of the US. At LeAsT WeRe NoT aMeRiCa kind of thing.

How would a Canada without Quebec actually develop? Moreover, you’d also have parts of Quebec that want to remain in Canada, so it’s going to be a bigger gong show than it already is.

It is honestly kinda weird that america's hat prefers to remain an amalgam of british and french. instead of the british part joining UISA and the french part going its own way.

 

[Hlaalu Agent]

It is honestly kinda weird that america's hate prefers to remain an amalgam of british and french. instead of the british part joining UISA and the french part going its own way.

It really isn't weird, we have our own unique culture, history, language and the rest. Everything that marks us out as our own nation with its own identity.

So why would we want to give it up and join another? The Swiss certainly like being four different nations in a suit, and have armed themselves to the teeth to keep it that.

So even with Trudeau fucking everything up, most Canadians would want to keep this together. We have our own way of life, our own culture, our own political system, own ways of thinking, and we even have our own unique (non-native) languages. We would lose far more than we'd ever gain by joining another country, and the biggest thing is that we'd lose is what we are. What actually makes us different would be wiped away and reduced down to mild variation of your own culture.

So to put it simply, we aren't interested and want to be left alone.

 

[Cherico]

Without Quebec, Canada would practically be Ontario writ large, with the West as its oversized colony. Plus keeping Quebec in gives Canada that kind of flavor of being the progressive version of the US. At LeAsT WeRe NoT aMeRiCa kind of thing.

How would a Canada without Quebec actually develop? Moreover, you’d also have parts of Quebec that want to remain in Canada, so it’s going to be a bigger gong show than it already is.

a canada thats Ontario writ large is still a more stable foundation then what canada has now.

The deal that was needed to keep Quebec in more or less requires Canadas political class to be bilingual in a country where most people just speak english. That cut down the number of people who can effectively run the ship of state if needed to a much lower amount and increases corruption and other issues.

And it also increases the amount of frustration and anger that other provinces of canada have towards Quebec. If they split off during the 90s it would have been painful but Quebec would have gone one way and the rest of canada could have rebuilt their idenity.

As for what happens to the parts of Quebec that want to remain Canadian? They get ethnically cleansed, not in a murder way more like you have to leave now way, I've talked to english speakers who used to live in Quebec who 'had to leave' something akin to this has already happened.

As is I think holding onto quebec just makes further fractures invitable.

 

[TheRomanSlayer]

a canada thats Ontario writ large is still a more stable foundation then what canada has now.

The deal that was needed to keep Quebec in more or less requires Canadas political class to be bilingual in a country where most people just speak english. That cut down the number of people who can effectively run the ship of state if needed to a much lower amount and increases corruption and other issues.

And it also increases the amount of frustration and anger that other provinces of canada have towards Quebec. If they split off during the 90s it would have been painful but Quebec would have gone one way and the rest of canada could have rebuilt their idenity.

As for what happens to the parts of Quebec that want to remain Canadian? They get ethnically cleansed, not in a murder way more like you have to leave now way, I've talked to english speakers who used to live in Quebec who 'had to leave' something akin to this has already happened.

As is I think holding onto quebec just makes further fractures invitable.

True, but the political culture of Ontario is vastly different from that of Alberta and Saskatchewan. The closest thing that Ontario has to a like-minded province would probably be BC, but it's the Lower Mainland that's calling the shots for the rest of BC. That, and Vancouver Island too. The equalization payment is something that WesCan separatists have been angry about for a while.

 

[Cherico]

True, but the political culture of Ontario is vastly different from that of Alberta and Saskatchewan. The closest thing that Ontario has to a like-minded province would probably be BC, but it's the Lower Mainland that's calling the shots for the rest of BC. That, and Vancouver Island too. The equalization payment is something that WesCan separatists have been angry about for a while.

While this is true it's a whole lot easier to cut a deal when everyone speaks the same language.

 

[DarthOne]

While this is true it's a whole lot easier to cut a deal when everyone speaks the same language.

(Looks at the Western world with its unprecedented mass migration. Looks at the Astro-Hungarian Empire it’s it’s ethnic problems, which included people not all speaking the same language)

 

[Circle of Willis]

To steer the thread back on topic for a moment...

No human remains found 2 years after claims of ‘mass graves’ in Canada

We could all have guessed it already, but here's definitive proof at last that the anti-Christian pogrom which burned down 68 churches two years ago was indeed carried out over a hoax, as First Nations activists have finally gotten around to digging up the supposed mass graves of children and found diddly squat. Not that it's going to matter, because anyone on the Canadian right has already known this for two years and those on the left never gave a shit about the truth in the first place. Per the article, Pope Francis has already apologized for something that we can now be certain didn't happen and people up to & including the former AG of Manitoba have lost their jobs for so much as saying 'well we don't actually have proof of this yet', and they certainly haven't been and won't be reinstated.

 

[Cherico]

To steer the thread back on topic for a moment...

No human remains found 2 years after claims of ‘mass graves’ in Canada

We could all have guessed it already, but here's definitive proof at last that the anti-Christian pogrom which burned down 68 churches two years ago was indeed carried out over a hoax, as First Nations activists have finally gotten around to digging up the supposed mass graves of children and found diddly squat. Not that it's going to matter, because anyone on the Canadian right has already known this for two years and those on the left never gave a shit about the truth in the first place. Per the article, Pope Francis has already apologized for something that we can now be certain didn't happen and people up to & including the former AG of Manitoba have lost their jobs for so much as saying 'well we don't actually have proof of this yet', and they certainly haven't been and won't be reinstated.

its another grievance on the pile, Canadians are too polite for their own good but even they have limits, were just going to find out the hard way what those limits are.

 

[mrttao]

its another grievance on the pile, Canadians are too polite for their own good but even they have limits, were just going to find out the hard way what those limits are.

This transcends politeness and enters the realm of cuckoldry

 

[TheRomanSlayer]

This transcends politeness and enters the realm of cuckoldry

Cuckoldry is sadly a part and parcel of Canadian life.