United States The Supreme Court says no to LGBT discrimination

Tzeentchean Perspective

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Posted articles from Vox and Motherjones because they both point out that there are real and potential exemptions to this change instead of doomsaying. But I'm not familiar with this area.
 
Gorsuch is, as always, spot on with his analysis, which is heavily based on textualism. Read it, it's a pretty clear and understandable argument. To summarize it, he shows that any discrimination of an individual based on being trans or gay necessarily is discrimination based on sex. If you want to listen to an actual lawyer read the majority opinion, here you go:
 
Yeah, this whole issue fell pretty squarely in the Title VII realm.

I'm not sure why anyone thought this case would go any other way, even with the two new Justices.
 
Also, it is now officially in a Supreme Court Majority opinion that you can fire Yankees fans for being Yankee fans. I think this is an unappreciated nuance of the case that I would advise all employers look into, as there is nothing worse than a Yankees fan except a Yankees Player.
 
Also, it is now officially in a Supreme Court Majority opinion that you can fire Yankees fans for being Yankee fans. I think this is an unappreciated nuance of the case that I would advise all employers look into, as there is nothing worse than a Yankees fan except a Yankees Player.
Patriot's players and staff still exist, so the Yankee's cannot be the worst.
 
Patriot's players and staff still exist, so the Yankee's cannot be the worst.
No, the Patriots don't buy our way to victory. We cheat our way. That requires skill.
Is this similar to Bill C-16 in Canada?
Kinda? But there is no ban on 'promoting hatred' because of the 1st amendment, so the bad part of C-16 doesn't exist. In addition, the sexual orientation and gender identity parts haven't been added to our laws by congress. Instead, Gorsuch reasoned (and reasoned very well, it's worth a listen) that any discrimination based on those constitutes sex discrimination, which is already banned.
 
Wait, so this means that I can fire every Patriots, Red Sox and Bruins fans? Sign me up!

Next time I see a Dodgers sticker... YER FIRED!
 
Just out of curiosity, when was the last time one of the Dem appointed justice broke ranks to support a legally obvious conservative ruling? I'm not being snide, I'm legitimately curious.
 
Just out of curiosity, when was the last time one of the Dem appointed justice broke ranks to support a legally obvious conservative ruling? I'm not being snide, I'm legitimately curious.
Kagan did in Ramos v Louisiana, which was about incorporating unanimous juries against the states. That was in 2020 as well.
 
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I dunnow, my non-law-school self is a little questioning?
In Title VII, Congress outlawed discrimination in the workplace on the basis of race, color, religion, sex, or national origin. Today, we must decide whether an employer can fire someone simply for being homosexual or transgender. The answer is clear. An employer who fires an individual for being homosexual or transgender fires that person for traits or actions it would not have questioned in members of a different sex.
Transgender status might be able to make this stick (with arguments abounding from people, undoubtedly)--but that's because it's a 'sex' characteristic at play, not a behavioral one. The trait of sexual orientation is unlisted in the legislation, and actions--even those tied to the different traits--are not grounds for protection. Gorsuch is conflating, in the case of homosexuality, a sexual orientation with a sex status (and the former was VERY much was not on the authors intentions at the time).
His analogies seem to ignore or skip over actually-comparable situations (a homosexual male and homosexual female) in order to manufacture a different treatment based on sex (a homosexual male fired where a hetero female is not) where the different treatment is based (immorally) on sexual orientation--which does not have a protection in the legal language carved out for it.

A positive result, but it's very much something that should've been a congressional update to the language of Title VII that inserted language. Not what looks (to my ignorant ass) like Court-created discovery of something not really present in the law.
 
I dunnow, my non-law-school self is a little questioning?

Transgender status might be able to make this stick (with arguments abounding from people, undoubtedly)--but that's because it's a 'sex' characteristic at play, not a behavioral one. The trait of sexual orientation is unlisted in the legislation, and actions--even those tied to the different traits--are not grounds for protection. Gorsuch is conflating, in the case of homosexuality, a sexual orientation with a sex status (and the former was VERY much was not on the authors intentions at the time).
His analogies seem to ignore or skip over actually-comparable situations (a homosexual male and homosexual female) in order to manufacture a different treatment based on sex (a homosexual male fired where a hetero female is not) where the different treatment is based (immorally) on sexual orientation--which does not have a protection in the legal language carved out for it.

A positive result, but it's very much something that should've been a congressional update to the language of Title VII that inserted language. Not what looks (to my ignorant ass) like Court-created discovery of something not really present in the law.
Read his opinion, he handles this very well. The whole opinion lives and breathes textualism, unlike Alito's. The basic argument is that discriminating based on sexual orientation necessitates a discrimination based on sex as defined in 1964.

First, using plain language, he explains what discrimination based on sex legally means in law, concluding that:
If the employer intentionally relies in part on an employee's sex when deciding to discharge the employee - put differently, if changing the employee's sex would have yielded a different choice by the employer - a statutory violation has occurred.

Then, he explains why discrimination based on sexual orientation necessarily implies discrimination based on sex:
The statute’s message for our cases is equally simple and momentous: An individual’s homosexuality or transgender status is not relevant to employment decisions. That’s because it is impossible to discriminate against a person for being homosexual or transgender without discriminating against that individual based on sex. Consider, for example, an employer with two employees, both of whom are attracted to men. The two individuals are, to the employer’s mind, materially identical in all respects, except that one is a man and the other a woman. If the employer fires the male employee for no reason other than the fact he is attracted to men, the employer discriminates against him for traits or actions it tolerates in his female colleague. Put differently, the employer intentionally singles out an employee to fire based in part on the employee’s sex, and the affected employee’s sex is a but-for cause of his discharge. Or take an employer who fires a transgender person who was identified as a male at birth but who now identifies as a female. If the employer retains an otherwise identical employee who was identified as female at birth, the employer intentionally penalizes a person identified as male at birth for traits or actions that it tolerates in an employee identified as female at birth. Again, the individual employee’s sex plays an unmistakable and impermissible role in the discharge decision.




Here's a response to a few specific objections:
(and the former was VERY much was not on the authors intentions at the time).
A couple of things. First, Gorsuch is a textualist, and thus doesn't give a shit what the authors intended, just what the words commonly meant at the time. Second, Gorsuch notes that the author didn't even intend for the bill to pass. Sex was added to the list as a poison pill in order to try to sink it. Third, Gorsuch says that the text is clear here, so there is no reason to seek guidance from the legislative record.

Gorsuch is conflating, in the case of homosexuality, a sexual orientation with a sex status
He specifically avoids doing this. He just finds that discrimination on sexual orientation implies discrimination based on sex. Just like discrimination based on being a mother is discrimination based on sex. He used the Defendant's definition of sex, even.

His analogies seem to ignore or skip over actually-comparable situations (a homosexual male and homosexual female) in order to manufacture a different treatment based on sex (a homosexual male fired where a hetero female is not) where the different treatment is based (immorally) on sexual orientation--which does not have a protection in the legal language carved out for it.
I'm not seeing how you are dismissing this comparison of a man who likes men versus a woman who likes men. The only difference between the two is their sex. To quote the opinion: "If changing the employee's sex would have yielded a different choice by the employer - a statutory violation has occurred." Clearly, in such a situation, this is true. He does it even more specifically by talking about an employee introducing their wife, Susan, and the employer firing any LGBT employees. The firing decision at that point depends entirely on the employee's sex, even as understood in 1964.



To conclude, I am enormously happy Gorsuch wrote this. It's so much better than the Obergfell v Hodges case.
 
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Now we see if the religious liberties case currently pending results in a massive and necessary exception for religious freedom—which I am hoping it does.

note also that this does not cover housing or public accommodation—only employment.
By extension, it probably does though. One of the core holdings is that:
... it is impossible to discriminate against a person for being homosexual or transgender without discriminating against that individual based on sex.

This applies to a huge swath of other federal laws. This was definitely not a narrow ruling. So in a housing discrimination case, they would just cite this, and it would follow quite quickly.
 

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