What If? The ROB puts some Villains to a test.

[Agent23]

Man, do you ever stop the hypocritical self-contradiction? One post ago you were saying all Jedi and Sith have the same powerset so you can transfer agility feats from other Jedi and Sith to Vader, on your very next post you're trying to defend by saying Ahsoka's always more agile. Make up your mind.


Hmm, so Vader's precog was easily fooled by a decoy ship. Good to know.

But yeah, I'm not the one cherry-picking here and I certainly haven't talked down his power. What everybody else has been pointing out to you is that Vader has a shitty walk speed compared to his competition so he's going to have a much harder time gathering clues and making the multi-kilometer trek to the mountains at the same kind of speed we can expect from his competition.

Also, editing your posts after I've already replied to them to make it look like I'm ignoring your points? Bad form.

jedi have the ability to cloud the force, and kenobi hiding his force presence from Vader is a plot point.

Also, good job at a totally botched diversion.

 

[Scooby Doo]

Personally just me but I interpret Vader as being a methodical brick with burst speed.

He's not a gymnast or anything but his fighting methods and styles at least in Disney canon allow him to compete and beat people who are far more agile then him.


Needlessly to say Vader can blitz via force speed but it's not like that amazing in Superhuman terms, Lords of the Sith has him going pretty fast down a straight line 40 meters away.

 

[Agent23]

Man, do you ever stop the hypocritical self-contradiction? One post ago you were saying all Jedi and Sith have the same powerset so you can transfer agility feats from other Jedi and Sith to Vader, on your very next post you're trying to defend by saying Ahsoka's always more agile. Make up your mind.


Hmm, so Vader's precog was easily fooled by a decoy ship. Good to know.

But yeah, I'm not the one cherry-picking here and I certainly haven't talked down his power. What everybody else has been pointing out to you is that Vader has a shitty walk speed compared to his competition so he's going to have a much harder time gathering clues and making the multi-kilometer trek to the mountains at the same kind of speed we can expect from his competition.

Also, editing your posts after I've already replied to them to make it look like I'm ignoring your points? Bad form.

Lol, it is about her physical abilities unrelated to the force, you know, agility, being flexible and so on.

Also different styles of combat.

Good job pushing more nonse whataboutism though.

Multiple sources have corroborated that Vader is one hell of a lot more powerful than you claim, put on your bif boy underwear and deal with it.

 

[Bear Ribs]

Lol, it is about her physical abilities unrelated to the force, you know, agility, being flexible and so on.

Also different styles of combat.

Then, again, why did you try to claim Yoda and Palpatine's feats for Vader?

Good job pushing more nonse whataboutism though.

Multiple sources have corroborated that Vader is one hell of a lot more powerful than you claim, put on your bif boy underwear and deal with it.

Everything they accuse you of, they do themselves. The whataboutism is on your side, again I never said Vader wasn't powerful, I said he didn't have a fast ground speed.

His power's not up to snuff either of course, not against the likes of Lex Luthor and Dr. Doom. But presenting feats of power to counter pointing out that he moves slowly? That's purely whataboutism on your part.

 

[Husky_Khan]

I'm not even sure how Darth Vader would operate without the force since he's in a giant cyborg body and AFAIK there's no frame of reference for that ever happening. If it was dampening the use of force powers... but keeping his mobility and life support and martial ability intact it might be more easy to gauge or at least be relevant to an actual Versus discussion.

 

[Bear Ribs]

I'm not even sure how Darth Vader would operate without the force since he's in a giant cyborg body and AFAIK there's no frame of reference for that ever happening. If it was dampening the use of force powers... but keeping his mobility and life support and martial ability intact it might be more easy to gauge or at least be relevant to an actual Versus discussion.

I had that reaction initially too but then I read the fine print. The force is only non-active in the mountain area where the prize is, and the anti-tech and anti-magic field vanishes when the 50th temple clue is gathered.

Basically, the force will work fine everywhere except the final boss level mountains, and it will work there once the last temple is plundered,

 

[Agent23]

Then, again, why did you try to claim Yoda and Palpatine's feats for Vader?


Everything they accuse you of, they do themselves. The whataboutism is on your side, again I never said Vader wasn't powerful, I said he didn't have a fast ground speed.

His power's not up to snuff either of course, not against the likes of Lex Luthor and Dr. Doom. But presenting feats of power to counter pointing out that he moves slowly? That's purely whataboutism on your part.

Me: Vader can frigging pull a decent-sized ship that is taking of then tear it to bits with telekinesis.

You: Oooh, Vader so easy to mislead.

Whataboutism if I ever saw one.

I think that he can easily tear Megatron apart and maybe even force-choke Doom and Luthor, no idea who this Xanatos guy is.

 

[Bear Ribs]

Me: Vader can frigging pull a decent-sized ship that is taking of then tear it to bits with telekinesis.

You: Oooh, Vader so easy to mislead.

Whataboutism if I ever saw one.

Wow, are you just completely incapable of properly representing your opponent's positions? I said Vader has a bad overland ground speed and you pulled the whataboutism about throwing around a ship.

I think that he can easily tear Megatron apart and maybe even force-choke Doom and Luthor, no idea who this Xanatos guy is.

Vader may be able to take Megatron, it depends on if he can concentrate on his TK while also taking massive incoming fire at the same time. Most of the time we see Jedi dropping the TK the instant that happens. This Megatron is fairly weak but not exactly unarmed.

Doom has telekinesis of his own, much stronger than Vader's, and will be the one doing the choking if he decides to break out his sorcery. He routinely takes on really BS enemies like the Silver Surfer that are vastly beyond even Wankatine, much less Vader. He can also fly (though he tends to use vehicles rather than his armor) and will be gathering clues long before Vader manages to trudge through the woods and find a temple.

Luthor is both much faster and stronger than anything Vader has been shown to TK. His warsuit was able to tank hits from Hawkgirl's Nth Metal Mace (A weapon strong enough that it sent Darkseid flying), he could take sustained hits from Superman's X-Ray vision, and his energy blasts could toss Superman around. Any of those would oneshot Vader. He can also fly so he's going to be gathering clues long before Vader manages to trudge through the woods and find a temple.


As for Xanatos, he's much weaker than the other two in straight combat but also literally the gold standard for schemers, so much so that TV Tropes named most of their scheme and gambit tropes after him. If Vader is ever in a position where he could force-choke Xanatos, it will be because Xanatos arranged a situation where he somehow automatically wins if Vader force-chokes him. He can also fly and will be gathering clues long before Vader manages to trudge through the woods and find a temple.

 

[Agent23]

Wow, are you just completely incapable of properly representing your opponent's positions? I said Vader has a bad overland ground speed and you pulled the whataboutism about throwing around a ship.

Vader may be able to take Megatron, it depends on if he can concentrate on his TK while also taking massive incoming fire at the same time. Most of the time we see Jedi dropping the TK the instant that happens. This Megatron is fairly weak but not exactly unarmed.

Doom has telekinesis of his own, much stronger than Vader's, and will be the one doing the choking if he decides to break out his sorcery. He routinely takes on really BS enemies like the Silver Surfer that are vastly beyond even Wankatine, much less Vader. He can also fly (though he tends to use vehicles rather than his armor) and will be gathering clues long before Vader manages to trudge through the woods and find a temple.

Luthor is both much faster and stronger than anything Vader has been shown to TK. His warsuit was able to tank hits from Hawkgirl's Nth Metal Mace (A weapon strong enough that it sent Darkseid flying), he could take sustained hits from Superman's X-Ray vision, and his energy blasts could toss Superman around. Any of those would oneshot Vader. He can also fly so he's going to be gathering clues long before Vader manages to trudge through the woods and find a temple.


As for Xanatos, he's much weaker than the other two in straight combat but also literally the gold standard for schemers, so much so that TV Tropes named most of their scheme and gambit tropes after him. If Vader is ever in a position where he could force-choke Xanatos, it will be because Xanatos arranged a situation where he somehow automatically wins if Vader force-chokes him. He can also fly and will be gathering clues long before Vader manages to trudge through the woods and find a temple.

Vader is the top Jedi Hunter.
Vader is the second in command of a very byzantine galactic empire, and part of an 'order' of force sensitives known for dirty tricks.

Logically, he is not a pushover and should give anything else in that universe a run for it's money.

Also, I have provided multiple examples of his strengths.


Vader is probably in the top 3 of characters in this list.

You are just incapable to understand the character and his abilities.

 

[Bear Ribs]

Vader is the top Jedi Hunter.
Vader is the second in command of a very byzantine galactic empire, and part of an 'order' of force sensitives known for dirty tricks.

Logically, he is not a pushover and should give anything else in that universe a run for it's money.

Also, I have provided multiple examples of his strengths.


Vader is probably in the top 3 of characters in this list.

You are just incapable to understand the character and his abilities.

Yes, that's your normal pattern, strawman everybody else, insist everything that undermines your position is a one-off and doesn't count, and then claim nobody else understands with no evidence.

At best in a straight fight Vader's in 4th place, he loses in absolutely every way to Luthor, Mumm-Ra, and Doom. He can theoretically beat Xanatos in a fair fight but Xanatos's intellect is so far ahead Vader won't get the chance unless they spawn on top of each other and Xanatos is absurdly faster. He might take Azula but fire is notably one of the things force users struggle against (Mace Windu flat-out fled against Jango Fett's flamethrower) so she has a chance as well. He can maybe TK Megatron if he gets the drop on him but Megatron can also one-shot Vader if the reverse is true.

Vader can almost certainly take Khan and Cobra Commander (Unless bullets bypass lightsaber defenses as many people believe, then Vader gets swiss-cheesed by the Vipers) Baal too most likely. So Vader ranges from 4th to 7th place on the list.

 

[Scooby Doo]

Yes, that's your normal pattern, strawman everybody else, insist everything that undermines your position is a one-off and doesn't count, and then claim nobody else understands with no evidence.

At best in a straight fight Vader's in 4th place, he loses in absolutely every way to Luthor, Mumm-Ra, and Doom. He can theoretically beat Xanatos in a fair fight but Xanatos's intellect is so far ahead Vader won't get the chance unless they spawn on top of each other and Xanatos is absurdly faster. He might take Azula but fire is notably one of the things force users struggle against (Mace Windu flat-out fled against Jango Fett's flamethrower) so she has a chance as well. He can maybe TK Megatron if he gets the drop on him but Megatron can also one-shot Vader if the reverse is true.

Vader can almost certainly take Khan and Cobra Commander (Unless bullets bypass lightsaber defenses as many people believe, then Vader gets swiss-cheesed by the Vipers) Baal too most likely. So Vader ranges from 4th to 7th place on the list.

Tbh I'd argue Vader for top three.

Lex Luthor doesn't have TK defenses so Vader can just snap his neck especially DCAU Lex who has like no hax defenses just raw stats.

Doom imo gets 1st place with Xanatos 2nd if his reputation is as good as you say it ism

 

[Bear Ribs]

Tbh I'd argue Vader for top three.

Lex Luthor doesn't have TK defenses so Vader can just snap his neck especially DCAU Lex who has like no hax defenses just raw stats.

Doom imo gets 1st place with Xanatos 2nd if his reputation is as good as you say it ism

Possibly, but again all this keeps assuming Vader gets a free pass and isn't being attacked back. His TK is limited by concentration and focus, the kind of thing that's hard to maintain when you're getting toasted or blasted, that's why Jedi and Sith rarely use such powers in combat beyond a quick thrust.

Telekinesis

Telekinesis, also known as Force telekinesis, was the ability to move and otherwise manipulate physical matter in a variety of ways, all while using the power of the Force. The ability was virtually ubiquitous among Force-sensitive individuals and organizations, though the techniques could...

starwars.fandom.com

Even the most powerful and skilled users of the Force, who naturally possessed greater levels of precision and accuracy with their ability, commonly refrained from repeated use of this ability in combat, using it more in short bursts to repel or otherwise attack their opponents, rather than to perform more delicate, complex, or strenuous tasks, as the effort and concentration could leave a user vulnerable and potentially weakened against their opponent.

 

[Scooby Doo]

Possibly, but again all this keeps assuming Vader gets a free pass and isn't being attacked back. His TK is limited by concentration and focus, the kind of thing that's hard to maintain when you're getting toasted or blasted, that's why Jedi and Sith rarely use such powers in combat beyond a quick thrust.

Telekinesis

Telekinesis, also known as Force telekinesis, was the ability to move and otherwise manipulate physical matter in a variety of ways, all while using the power of the Force. The ability was virtually ubiquitous among Force-sensitive individuals and organizations, though the techniques could...

starwars.fandom.com

Even the most powerful and skilled users of the Force, who naturally possessed greater levels of precision and accuracy with their ability, commonly refrained from repeated use of this ability in combat, using it more in short bursts to repel or otherwise attack their opponents, rather than to perform more delicate, complex, or strenuous tasks, as the effort and concentration could leave a user vulnerable and potentially weakened against their opponent.

Vader has no such weakness it's literally mentioned in his comic series.

This is the weakest version of Vader just a couple weeks after Mustafar. His solo series also repeatedly hammers in the point he doesn't have those weaknesses or limits, even Tarkin admits he's wrong and he couldn't gauge Vader's limits and he canonically knows Jedi Masters.


Vader frankly just doesn't have the weaknesses that any Jedi or Sith below him does.

 

[Bear Ribs]

Vader has no such weakness it's literally mentioned in his comic series.

This is the weakest version of Vader just a couple weeks after Mustafar. His solo series also repeatedly hammers in the point he doesn't have those weaknesses or limits, even Tarkin admits he's wrong and he couldn't gauge Vader's limits and he canonically knows Jedi Masters.


Vader frankly just doesn't have the weaknesses that any Jedi or Sith below him does.

You're pulling out a heck of a no-limits fallacy there. It doesn't appear that Vader didn't have those limits, rather a pair of idiots sat there yammering for half a minute or more. It may have gone very differently if they'd gone with moron #2's plan and opened fire immediately instead of giving him time to concentrate and focus his will without distraction.

 

[Scooby Doo]

You're pulling out a heck of a no-limits fallacy there. It doesn't appear that Vader didn't have those limits, rather a pair of idiots sat there yammering for half a minute or more. It may have gone very differently if they'd gone with moron #2's plan and opened fire immediately instead of giving him time to concentrate and focus his will without distraction.

I don't mean to imply Vader literally has no limits but rather he's so far above other Sith and Jedi that their limitations don't apply to him.

Maybe at the time of the original attempt if clones went with your idea it could have worked (They'd end up dying from the grenade going off tho..) but Vader gets progressive amps afterwards that it wouldn't work on a normal or peak incarnation if Vader.


Le example from ESB/ANH Vader canon. (Star Wars Galaxy of Adventures is canon and the source for these animated gifs)

Or Vader just a few years after the Clone fight.

Vader is a god of multi tasking unlike any Sith or Jedi before him (With the exception of Palpatine)


You simply can not use the weaknesses of other characters and apply them to Vader. (Ergo use Vader's weaknesses only not that of other characters, you can't cross scale weaknesses to him)

 

[Sailor.X]

I don't mean to imply Vader literally has no limits but rather he's so far above other Sith and Jedi that their limitations don't apply to him.

Maybe at the time of the original attempt if clones went with your idea it could have worked (They'd end up dying from the grenade going off tho..) but Vader gets progressive amps afterwards that it wouldn't work on a normal or peak incarnation if Vader.


Le example from ESB/ANH Vader canon. (Star Wars Galaxy of Adventures is canon and the source for these animated gifs)

Or Vader just a few years after the Clone fight.

Vader is a god of multi tasking unlike any Sith or Jedi before him (With the exception of Palpatine)


You simply can not use the weaknesses of other characters and apply them to Vader. (Ergo use Vader's weaknesses only not that of other characters, you can't cross scale weaknesses to him)

Please don't tell me some Comic writer implied Vader Force Choked Tarkin. Because I will instantly call bullshit on that. Palpatine made it Crystal clear Vader was to not do any harm to Tarkin less he face the full wrath of Palpatine.

 

[Agent23]

Please don't tell me some Comic writer implied Vader Force Choked Tarkin. Because I will instantly call bullshit on that. Palpatine made it Crystal clear Vader was to not do any harm to Tarkin less he face the full wrath of Palpatine.

That doesn't look like a Moff uniform, and Tarkin and Vader have been interacting for close to 20 years prior to the events of ANH.

Is that even Tarkin or some other anorexic geezer?

 

[Scooby Doo]

Please don't tell me some Comic writer implied Vader Force Choked Tarkin. Because I will instantly call bullshit on that. Palpatine made it Crystal clear Vader was to not do any harm to Tarkin less he face the full wrath of Palpatine.

That was like ten years before ANH to be fair, annnnd the context of the scene was Tarkin was entertaining a favor Vader asked.


Vader's favor was "Yooo muh dawg Tarkin, I'm calling in that favor. Try to kill me bruh" and Tarkin was like "Aight, a debt owed is a favor returned"

 

[Sailor.X]

That was like ten years before ANH to be fair, annnnd the context of the scene was Tarkin was entertaining a favor Vader asked.


Vader's favor was "Yooo muh dawg Tarkin, I'm calling in that favor. Try to kill me bruh" and Tarkin was like "Aight, a debt owed is a favor returned"

Problem is Palaptine warned Vader right after he got introduced to the Empire as a whole. Not even a year after the Clone Wars ended.

 

[Scooby Doo]

Problem is Palaptine warned Vader right after he got introduced to the Empire as a whole. Not even a year after the Clone Wars ended.

Is this in Legends?

Disney retconned a lot of Legends stuff lol