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Star Trek The General Star Trek Thread - From TOS to Corporate Schenanigans
- Thread starter bullethead
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- star trek
I've never quite been sold on the "Nav deflectors no-sell railguns" theory. The deflector field is intended to deal with space dust and micrometors, which are very small and very light. That doesn't automatically mean it should be able to deflect much heavier, and perhaps much faster objects, and in fact it's not able to do that, marcoscope objects need to be deflected via a secondary system of active deflector/tractor beams:
But even those beams must have a limit. And in fact there's canon evidence for that, off the top of my head Voyager had to enter Krenim space in "year of hell" because they had to divert course around a comet, rather than have the deflector nudge it aside (and from secondary sources, STO lets you mount a railgun on your ship and it works fine).
So it's possible there is a range of objects that are heavy enough and fast enough to push through the deflector field, but too small, too heavy, or too fast for the active deflector system to catch (the deflector could be adjusted to try and compensate, but the question would then come down to if it's possible to fire a rail gun shot that's beyond the deflector's capacity to resist, and the only source I have about who wins that conflict is the afermentioned STO, which says the railgun wins).
This in particular I'm really not sure about, since missiles would need to be caught by the active defector and not the passive low level system, and it should be possible to generate a tractor beam that's powerful enough to resist the drive system of a missile, as the missile's drive would obviously be running off a much smaller, much weaker power plant than the deflector.
But even those beams must have a limit. And in fact there's canon evidence for that, off the top of my head Voyager had to enter Krenim space in "year of hell" because they had to divert course around a comet, rather than have the deflector nudge it aside (and from secondary sources, STO lets you mount a railgun on your ship and it works fine).
So it's possible there is a range of objects that are heavy enough and fast enough to push through the deflector field, but too small, too heavy, or too fast for the active deflector system to catch (the deflector could be adjusted to try and compensate, but the question would then come down to if it's possible to fire a rail gun shot that's beyond the deflector's capacity to resist, and the only source I have about who wins that conflict is the afermentioned STO, which says the railgun wins).
This in particular I'm really not sure about, since missiles would need to be caught by the active defector and not the passive low level system, and it should be possible to generate a tractor beam that's powerful enough to resist the drive system of a missile, as the missile's drive would obviously be running off a much smaller, much weaker power plant than the deflector.
The main shield array, I could buy, but yeah, the deflector dish has never been super impressive at blocking things.
Typhonis
Well-known member
Federation and Empire. A strategic level game from Star Fleet Games. This represents the General war. Pennies represent destroyed starbases and battle stations. Each turn represents 6 months of time. Each hex is 500 parsecs across. Starships travel 6 hexes a turn unless they use strategic movement.
Been there done that 'not finished' many a game!
Federation and Empire. A strategic level game from Star Fleet Games. This represents the General war. Pennies represent destroyed starbases and battle stations. Each turn represents 6 months of time. Each hex is 500 parsecs across. Starships travel 6 hexes a turn unless they use strategic movement.
Looks neat, is it particularly complicated? I've heard the other big TOS game, starfleet battles, is a nightmare.
Which is weird, because you'd think the opposite based on the show, where on average 75% of all ship to ship conflicts are resolved with "shoot the bad guys with phasers until they die", with the occasional complications of "move to the side where they don't have thoer shields up and then shoot them with phasers until they die".
The other 25% of the time it's "something something reverse polarity, something something main deflector I win". And that shouldn't really be an issue in the TOS era because nearly all thier fights were with phasers, the deflector dish shenanigans are more of a VOY era thing, because Janeway occasionally seemed to forget that Voyager had weapons onboard other than the deflector dish.
Which is weird, because you'd think the opposite based on the show, where on average 75% of all ship to ship conflicts are resolved with "shoot the bad guys with phasers until they die", with the occasional complications of "move to the side where they don't have thoer shields up and then shoot them with phasers until they die".
The other 25% of the time it's "something something reverse polarity, something something main deflector I win". And that shouldn't really be an issue in the TOS era because nearly all thier fights were with phasers, the deflector dish shenanigans are more of a VOY era thing, because Janeway occasionally seemed to forget that Voyager had weapons onboard other than the deflector dish.
bintananth
behind a desk
Six hexes a turn would be Warp 9.2 for six months straight without slowing down or altering course just to do the trip.
Federation and Empire. A strategic level game from Star Fleet Games. This represents the General war. Pennies represent destroyed starbases and battle stations. Each turn represents 6 months of time. Each hex is 500 parsecs across. Starships travel 6 hexes a turn unless they use strategic movement.
Umm ... most ST starships can't reach that speed, let alone maintain it for more than a few hours.
EDIT: http://www.the-sietch.com/index.php?threads/scifi-writers-have-no-sense-of-scale.6328/
Honestly, the thing that confuses me the most is that there's only 4 hex colors on the map, but lots of factions. Seems like a terrible idea when you could easily have the Federation or Kzinti taking tiny pockets of each other's territory.
Nothing close. Each ship has an attack and defense rating. Assemble fleet, compare fleet totals, adjust for engagement level, then take damge to fleet based on that. Fine and repeat.
Feds, Klingon, Kzinti, Hydrans, Romulans, Gorn, Tholians...I think I got em all.
bintananth
behind a desk
Not really a problem.
My big sisters play a game replicating The Seven Days once in awhile where every Union and Confederate unit is face down with a few decoys tossed in for good measure.
To add to the difficulty they do not write down unit locations. Those two counters sitting off by themselves with two more in the space might be 4 divisions or it might be three decoys and a cavalry brigade.
Typhonis
Well-known member
They added some minor empires last time I looked. WYN cluster, LDR Lyran Democratic Republic. Seltorian Tribunal, Plus the ISC which is a major power.
Star Fleet battles is a very complicated game, spend power to move, reinforce shields power weapons, ETC. Starmada is a shortened form of it in that you have ten turns of play and the form is far easier.
As for the speed. This is a different universe from Canon Trek. It is normally set during Kirk's time. I mean you could use F+E to play out war between the Federation and Klingon Empire.
bintananth
behind a desk
Very complicated is an understatement. I've read parts of that rulebook and it makes wading through the mess that is me reviewing and approving the shop drawings for something I designed and wrote the spec for look easy.
Making sense of the Star Fleet Battles rulebooks? "Here's a loaded fiream and please just put me out of my misery because I can't make heads-or-tails of this nonsense."
Typhonis
Well-known member
I just manly go for the newer counters and to try and convert ships to Starmada.
For example converting the Lioness class CA to Starmada stats for the LDR. Because it is something they could build.
SFB is the ultimate in ST simulation and is pretty decent if you're just doing a duel. If you get more than a few ships going at it...you may go insane. Ship markers, drones, plasma warheads, fighter craft, gun boats, shuttle craft, turn markers, HET markers...and that's just the stuff on the map! Then there's Energy Allocation for EVERYTHING! The 32 Impulse 'round'. I could go on. 
In the same vein I REALLY liked the B5 Wars rule set, but it was nowhere near as bad as SFB. The problem I found with B5Wars was that it made fighters pretty overpowering. Though, they were nice enough to throw counters to that in.
In the same vein I REALLY liked the B5 Wars rule set, but it was nowhere near as bad as SFB. The problem I found with B5Wars was that it made fighters pretty overpowering. Though, they were nice enough to throw counters to that in.
bintananth
behind a desk
You are a much braver man than I am.SFB is the ultimate in ST simulation and is pretty decent if you're just doing a duel. If you get more than a few ships going at it...you may go insane. Ship markers, drones, plasma warheads, fighter craft, gun boats, shuttle craft, turn markers, HET markers...and that's just the stuff on the map! Then there's Energy Allocation for EVERYTHING! The 32 Impulse 'round'. I could go on.
Typhonis
Well-known member
I still have the SFB rulebooks both basic and advanced. I also have the Starmada rulebooks....the two Starmada rulebooks are half the size of the basic STB rulebook and can do the same thing. With the added benefit of creating your own ships. Heck they have a supplement called dreadnoughts where you can create early 20th century navy combat.
bintananth
behind a desk
You're nuts.
I would say "batshit crazy" if I couldn't say that using a quarter of a mile of 30" wide paper just to print something so I can review it wasn't a day ending in "-y".
Typhonis
Well-known member
You're nuts.
I would say "batshit crazy" if I couldn't say that using a quarter of a mile of 30" wide paper just to print something so I can review it wasn't a day ending in "-y".
What do you call 23 pages of rules for movement, combat, and the use of space fighters?
mj12games • Starmada
They have the free demo rules or you could buy a copy for about $20.
As for your sisters. Do they Play Victory WW2 by any chance?