Star Wars The Book of Boba Fett/Mandalorian/DIsney Star Wars Yields and calcs

[ShadowArxxy]

The disparity between modern-day nukes and what the GE should have is at least two times bigger than that.

United States: Requires a vulnerable fixed launch site and a 80,000 ton ICBM missile to loft just three warheads accurate to about 800 feet.

Galactic Empire: Standard light tactical fighter-bomber can carry sixty-four warheads and deploy with precision accuracy.

 

[Agent23]

I was hoping that we will have a few seasons of Boba Soprano running Tatooine.

United States: Requires a vulnerable fixed launch site and a 80,000 ton ICBM missile to loft just three warheads accurate to about 800 feet.

Galactic Empire: Standard light tactical fighter-bomber can carry sixty-four warheads and deploy with precision accuracy.

IIRC 280 mm shell delivered via gun, that test happened in the 1950s.

W9 (nuclear warhead) - Wikipedia



We are discussing the bomb yield and the strategy, not the delivery method, the ICBM is the ebst delivery method we have, but there are others, like aircraft, even single seat jets.

 

[Zachowon]

I was hoping that we will have a few seasons of Boba Soprano running Tatooine.

IIRC 280 mm shell delivered via gun, that test happened in the 1950s.

W9 (nuclear warhead) - Wikipedia



We are discussing the bomb yield and the strategy, not the delivery method, the ICBM is the ebst delivery method we have, but there are others, like aircraft, even single seat jets.

Again, the empire also has more nukes then the height of the arms race between the USSR and the USA....
THey dont need BIG when they can literally drown a planet in them.

 

[Agent23]

The W80 Warhead





The W80 is the warhead used on the three cruise missiles currently in the U.S. arsenal - the Mod 0 with the BGM-109 Tomahawk SLCM (sea launched cruise missile), the Mod 1 with the AGM-86B ALCM (air launched cruise missile) and the AGM-129 ACM (advanced cruise missile, an air launched weapon incorporating stealth technology). It is a light weight variable yield warhead.

 

[Agent23]

Again, the empire also has more nukes then the height of the arms race between the USSR and the USA....
THey dont need BIG when they can literally drown a planet in them.

BDZ would be cheaper and more effective, if it was possible to glass a planet with just one SD firing.

Also you are not answering the more important question, why would a modern military for example stockpile flint spears.

 

[Zachowon]

BDZ would be cheaper and more effective, if it was possible to glass a planet with just one SD firing.

Also you are not answering the more important question, why would a modern military for example stockpile flint spears.

Fear. And because why not mass produce something you can use during contested space?

 

[Agent23]

Fear. And because why not mass produce something you can use during contested space?

The what now?

Also getting your planet glassed by a single ISD is kinda scarier than a few dozen low-megaton/high-kiloton nukes going off, IMHO.

You still aren't answering the main question, which is, "why would the empire use the equivalent of throwing rocks and slings to suppress/genocide a group they hate."

Gideon didn't strike me as pointlessly sadistic or bent on making a point, and was he even the one in overall command?

 

[Zachowon]

The what now?

Also getting your planet glassed by a single ISD is kinda scarier than a few dozen low-megaton/high-kiloton nukes going off, IMHO.

You still aren't answering the main question, which is, "why would the empire use the equivalent of throwing rocks and slings to suppress/genocide a group they hate."

Gideon didn't strike me as pointlessly sadistic or bent on making a point, and was he even the one in overall command?

Yes he was. He was a Moff.
And when the people you sre attacking sre knownnas a proud warrior race and were known for nuking during the olden times.
Why not blot out the skies in darkness and nuke them with the tie bombers?
And I would be more scared of the sky being blotted out by Tie bombers over a SD.

And how is this like throwing rocks? Like literally? It makes no sense when they can mass produce nukes sk fast that the USSR is blushing. Why waste a SD when you can send a carrier and just drown them in numbers? What better way to show how weak you think a warrior group is then sending a fleet kf carriers and just bombing them that way. They arnt worth a SD.
Fear tactics

The Empire based thier whole thing on fear. Based of Tarkins doctrine.

 

[Agent23]

Yes he was. He was a Moff.
And when the people you sre attacking sre knownnas a proud warrior race and were known for nuking during the olden times.
Why not blot out the skies in darkness and nuke them with the tie bombers?
And I would be more scared of the sky being blotted out by Tie bombers over a SD.

And how is this like throwing rocks? Like literally? It makes no sense when they can mass produce nukes sk fast that the USSR is blushing. Why waste a SD when you can send a carrier and just drown them in numbers? What better way to show how weak you think a warrior group is then sending a fleet kf carriers and just bombing them that way. They arnt worth a SD.
Fear tactics

The Empire based thier whole thing on fear. Based of Tarkins doctrine.

Using inferior weapons does not make one more feared, it makes one look stupid.

 

[ShadowArxxy]

We are discussing the bomb yield and the strategy, not the delivery method, the ICBM is the ebst delivery method we have, but there are others, like aircraft, even single seat jets.

The "Atomic Annie" was removed from service because it was hopelessly vulnerable, as it could only move at a 35 MPH crawl on specially made 28-foot-wide reinforced paved roads.

As for single-engine jets. . . a single-engine jet fighter can carry in theory three or four, and in practice one, low yield tactical nuclear weapon, but requires special equipment fit and specialized training for nuclear laydown to not be a suicide mission.

A TIE Bomber, in contrast, can carry multiple dozens of low yield tactical nukes and deploys them without restriction as standard heavy weapons -- they're using kiloton-range tac nukes as the equivalent of a 250 pound mini-bomb.

 

[ShadowArxxy]

Using inferior weapons does not make one more feared, it makes one look stupid.

Less raw power does not automatically make weapons "inferior". There's a reason ICBM forces switched from megaton-range single warheads to kiloton-range multiple warheads, and precision delivered mini-nukes along the lines of what the TIE Bombers are deploying are literally the *Holy Grail* of tactical nuclear strikes.

 

[Agent23]

Less raw power does not automatically make weapons "inferior". There's a reason ICBM forces switched from megaton-range single warheads to kiloton-range multiple warheads, and precision delivered mini-nukes along the lines of what the TIE Bombers are deploying are literally the *Holy Grail* of tactical nuclear strikes.

Sure, and the Mandos did not have defenses that would have been built to stop modern military power because?

City and planetary shields and other assorted defense installations that can stop a turbo laser should be more than ample enough to block a very low yield nuke.

 

[Zachowon]

Sure, and the Mandos did not have defenses that would have been built to stop modern military power because?

City and planetary shields and other assorted defense installations that can stop a turbo laser should be more than ample enough to block a very low yield nuke.

....
Why let a ISD, which we have not seen destroy or BDZ a planet, shoot one side of a planet, when you can just flood tie bombers to overwhelm.
The whole thing about destroying Mandalore the way they did is to show they don't mean anything to the Empire.

Fun fact, you can be more stealthy with a leet of Tie bombers then a ISD, so the shield may not her up in time

 

[Agent23]

....
Why let a ISD, which we have not seen destroy or BDZ a planet, shoot one side of a planet, when you can just flood tie bombers to overwhelm.
The whole thing about destroying Mandalore the way they did is to show they don't mean anything to the Empire.

Fun fact, you can be more stealthy with a leet of Tie bombers then a ISD, so the shield may not her up in time

A very flimsy justification, I don't buy it. not even in the context of the Tarkin doctrine.

Tarkin wanted overwhelming force, not symbolic stone throwing.

 

[Zachowon]

A very flimsy justification, I don't buy it. not even in the context of the Tarkin doctrine.

Tarkin wanted overwhelming force, not symbolic stone throwing.

I still domt get why you are comparing miniature nukes that can be carried en mass to stone throwing.
Because the empire decides to go for symbolic by just carpet nuking Mandalore instead of fully destroying it?
Plus a ISD can't cover the whole planet immediately to destroy the whole planet without a meaningful resistance being established.
They didn't use any soldiers for a reason byw. You can survive an Imperial bombardment, and send in troops right after.
You can't woth nukes.
Unless Kanan surviving is a fluke

 

[Agent23]

I still domt get why you are comparing miniature nukes that can be carried en mass to stone throwing.

Because going by ICS/Wongcalcs those little explosions are nothing.

Because the empire decides to go for symbolic by just carpet nuking Mandalore instead of fully destroying it?

Because the whole symbolic angle is silly, how many times has a modern militaty gone symbolic by using flint-tipped spears and slings?

Plus a ISD can't cover the whole planet immediately to destroy the whole planet without a meaningful resistance being established.

Ok, 1 ISD, or 2 ISDs, or something would have to drag all those fighters to Mandalore, and the probe droids, ant the cmombat droids, sending all those into Mandalore's atmosphere and down to the planet's surface would probably take just as much time as the ISD orbiting around the planet and hitting most major population centers with turbolasers.
IIRC the Empire never had dedicated carriers of the size that could take in that many tie bombers, so ISDs would have to be it.

They didn't use any soldiers for a reason byw. You can survive an Imperial bombardment, and send in troops right after.
You can't woth nukes.
Unless Kanan surviving is a fluke

I stick to Occam's razor, and the simplest solution here is that the empire's planet-destroying weaponry aside from the Deathstars is pretty underwhelming, thus Wongcalcs/ICS go down the drain IMHO.
And the effects of the First Order Dreadnaught's bombardment canons corroborate that, they were quite puny by comparison to ICS stuff.
And recall that that ship was far larger than an ISD and purposely built to raise planets.

 

[Zachowon]

Because going by ICS/Wongcalcs those little explosions are nothing.


Because the whole symbolic angle is silly, how many times has a modern militaty gone symbolic by using flint-tipped spears and slings?


Ok, 1 ISD, or 2 ISDs, or something would have to drag all those fighters to Mandalore, and the probe droids, ant the cmombat droids, sending all those into Mandalore's atmosphere and down to the planet's surface would probably take just as much time as the ISD orbiting around the planet and hitting most major population centers with turbolasers.
IIRC the Empire never had dedicated carriers of the size that could take in that many tie bombers, so ISDs would have to be it.



I stick to Occam's razor, and the simplest solution here is that the empire's planet-destroying weaponry aside from the Deathstars is pretty underwhelming, thus Wongcalcs/ICS go down the drain IMHO.
And the effects of the First Order Dreadnaught's bombardment canons corroborate that, they were quite puny by comparison to ICS stuff.
And recall that that ship was far larger than an ISD and purposely built to raise planets.

Have you read any of the comics?
Because if you did you would know how powertful Turbolasers are against Water and ships underneath and that they are still VERy efective.

Why are you using modern using flint spears to the Empire using nukes in Tie Bombers?
The empire does symbolic rhings all the time

 

[Agent23]

Have you read any of the comics?
Because if you did you would know how powertful Turbolasers are against Water and ships underneath and that they are still VERy efective.

Why are you using modern using flint spears to the Empire using nukes in Tie Bombers?
The empire does symbolic rhings all the time

Because as stated the difference between a modern nuke and a flint spear is half the time between the founding of the republic and the Battle of Yavin, of course there were space fairing civilizations prior to that, so we must add several thousands of years before the civilization that became the republic went from nukes to turbolaser tech.

So a nuke-capable civilization is as distant to the Empire as we are to flint spears, times at least two, our nukes should be to turbolasers and proton torpedoes what flint or bronze is to our nukes.

 

[Agent23]

Less raw power does not automatically make weapons "inferior". There's a reason ICBM forces switched from megaton-range single warheads to kiloton-range multiple warheads, and precision delivered mini-nukes along the lines of what the TIE Bombers are deploying are literally the *Holy Grail* of tactical nuclear strikes.

The primary reasons the world switched to MIRV-ed warheads a combination of cost and ABM suitability, also the ability to hit multiple targets is nice.

Simply put, one big nuke is more vulnerable to interception than 10 smaller ones, which can hit a larger area and be guided autonomously.

None of this applies to the conversation in question tough as we are discussing turbolasers and ship-mounted torpedoes vs. tie bombers.

Atomic Annie is something I posted so as to illustrate the size and damage made by modern nuclear weapons, as well as the large range of delivery systems for those.

Please stay on topic.

 

[KilroywasNOTHere]

keep in mind that the destruction of manalore was made before the Death Star was fully operational. They were just beginning the testing phases at the time. If it was working by that point I guarantee you that Gidion would have advocated (most likely successfully) to have mandalore completely erased from existence.

also keep in mind that nukes despite being so primitive are still highly feared in the Star Wars universe. They are incredibly dirty bombs by Star Wars standard and cause a lot of lasting destruction.

Even in our world, old tactics are still used. Russia destroyed the middle east by salting the area and nothing of note has grown ever since. That area is broken beyond repair.