ISOT Tet Offensive ISOT

What will happen if South Vietnam is ISOT from Jan 24, 1968 to Jan 24, 1940?

  • The Tet Offensive will launch on schedule

    Votes: 1 25.0%
  • The Tet Offensive will be postponed

    Votes: 1 25.0%
  • The VC/NVA side will be more screwed by being cut off from outside supply/reinforcement

    Votes: 2 50.0%
  • The USA/ARVN side will be more screwed by being cut off from outside supply reinforcement

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • A Tet offensive would be highly destructive but thrown back

    Votes: 1 25.0%
  • A Tet offensive would collapse South Vietnam and the American position there

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Japan would intervene in South Vietnam in 1940

    Votes: 1 25.0%
  • VC/NVA and/or USA/ARVN would intervene in downtime French Indochina/northern Vietnam

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • US future knowledge or tech would would help the Allies eventually, but not in the 1940 campaigns

    Votes: 1 25.0%
  • US future knowledge or tech would crucially help the Allies in 1940 campaigns

    Votes: 2 50.0%

  • Total voters
    4

WolfBear

Well-known member
Sure, but by Jan 1940 they have flubbed the latter, and they might be psyched out by all the future news. Especially if it is not compensated by enough future tech and help to get confidence restored.

Poles themselves have not lost all faith and hope in France yet in January 1940, have they? And the French would still have four months to fortify and defend the Ardennes much more aggressively, if they will decide to actually believe the news from 1968, of course.
 

Buba

A total creep
Why should France throw in the towel? The Fall of France was a fluke. With foreknowledge it will not happen and the Heer will grind itself against the French army, a type of war the French have been preparing for twenty years.
In the 2nd half of 1940 French military production will overcome the nationalisation and mobilisation messes and spam weapons, same as in WWI when it was The Arsenal of Democracy.
1941 will see the French at the gates of Berlin.

I see volunteering for the FFL as to gain French citizenship as quite attractive for Colored US military personel.
 

WolfBear

Well-known member
Why should France throw in the towel? The Fall of France was a fluke. With foreknowledge it will not happen and the Heer will grind itself against the French army, a type of wear the French have been preparing for twenty years.
1941 will see the French at the gates of Berlin.

I see volunteering for the FFL as to gain French citizenship as quite attractive for Colored US military personel.

TBH, I suspect that a lot of white US military personnel might also volunteer for this, especially if France actually paid them generously by contemporary standards. White US draftees from 1968 might have been unwilling to fight "Jungle Chinamen" in Vietnam, but they would have probably been much more willing to fight actual, real-life Nazis!
 

Buba

A total creep
France was NOT known for good pay for its grunts. But colored dudes in France would not get lynched for flirting with a white woman in public. For career military guys there even would be Commissions over time (foreigners in FFL are limited to Captain rank, IIRC). Some would be hired as "consultants" immediatelly, be these Officers or Enlisted with technical skills. Airplane mechanics? Radar guys?
If not willing to fight Commies in Vietnam, then why would they would be willing to fight Nazis? The climate is better, I admit.
 
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ATP

Well-known member
Sure, but by Jan 1940 they have flubbed the latter, and they might be psyched out by all the future news. Especially if it is not compensated by enough future tech and help to get confidence restored.

No need new tech.They just start mass producing D.520- 300 per month.Add MB152,155, VG34 - and compared to german 200 Me 109 per month they were better.
They have prototype of new tank with slope armour and long 75mm gun,too/Char 1G/
So,they do not really need new tech.Only use smartly what they have.
 

Atarlost

Well-known member
True only about dutchmen.Americans still have their carriers,just like british.They simply do not cared much about Australia.
And if USA send half of Lend-lease which they gave soviet genociders to Australia,they would not need any other help.
But - helping soviet genociders was more important,too.
I'm sorry, I wasn't aware that Australia was occupied by Imperial Japanese forces that could have been prevented by more foreign aid. In fact, I'm pretty sure it wasn't. Nor did it have to surrender like France to avoid occupation. Australia got all the help it actually needed as proven by Australia remaining free for the entire war. Supporting Stalin was a mistake, but don't pretend that Australia is Norway.

The British can not get to Australia without securing their supply lines through the Mediterranean Sea and Indian Ocean. You can blame them for signing the WNT which prevented the Australian navy from maintaining a battlecruiser force and the infrastructure to support it, but after that the UK had no options. If they'd stripped the Atlantic or Mediterranean for ships to send to Australia they would have relied on American supply and America could not supply them with shells. After Force Z was sunk there was no slack.

ABDA command collapsed in March 1942. By June 1942 USS Enterprise was operating in the Solomons and while out of the direct line to Australia was fighting the IJN force threatening Australia and New Zealand. That's only two or three months running distraction operations in the central pacific before moving into position to defend Australia. American submarines were operating out of Australian bases as well.

No need new tech.They just start mass producing D.520- 300 per month.Add MB152,155, VG34 - and compared to german 200 Me 109 per month they were better.
They have prototype of new tank with slope armour and long 75mm gun,too/Char 1G/
So,they do not really need new tech.Only use smartly what they have.
The Char G1 project runs from 1936 to 1942 with no production ready product. 1940 is too late to change that. What France has is the Char B1. Some doctrinal flaws can be fixed by just changing doctrine, but a one man turret is something that can only be fixed by completely redesigning the tank. Which the French are already doing but can not do fast enough. Just the bad turret design puts the French tanks at a qualitative disadvantage in tanks.

And I'm not sure of France's capacity to make enough radios either. Especially if the aircraft you want them producing more of also need them. Maybe that's a problem they can solve by throwing money at it in 1940, but they're in the state they're in because they don't have money.
 
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ATP

Well-known member
I'm sorry, I wasn't aware that Australia was occupied by Imperial Japanese forces that could have been prevented by more foreign aid. In fact, I'm pretty sure it wasn't. Nor did it have to surrender like France to avoid occupation. Australia got all the help it actually needed as proven by Australia remaining free for the entire war. Supporting Stalin was a mistake, but don't pretend that Australia is Norway.

The British can not get to Australia without securing their supply lines through the Mediterranean Sea and Indian Ocean. You can blame them for signing the WNT which prevented the Australian navy from maintaining a battlecruiser force and the infrastructure to support it, but after that the UK had no options. If they'd stripped the Atlantic or Mediterranean for ships to send to Australia they would have relied on American supply and America could not supply them with shells. After Force Z was sunk there was no slack.

ABDA command collapsed in March 1942. By June 1942 USS Enterprise was operating in the Solomons and while out of the direct line to Australia was fighting the IJN force threatening Australia and New Zealand. That's only two or three months running distraction operations in the central pacific before moving into position to defend Australia. American submarines were operating out of Australian bases as well.


The Char G1 project runs from 1936 to 1942 with no production ready product. 1940 is too late to change that. What France has is the Char B1. Some doctrinal flaws can be fixed by just changing doctrine, but a one man turret is something that can only be fixed by completely redesigning the tank. Which the French are already doing but can not do fast enough. Just the bad turret design puts the French tanks at a qualitative disadvantage in tanks.

And I'm not sure of France's capacity to make enough radios either. Especially if the aircraft you want them producing more of also need them. Maybe that's a problem they can solve by throwing money at it in 1940, but they're in the state they're in because they don't have money.

1.Australia was not occupied - but only becouse Japan decide to not do that.If they throw everything there after taking Dutch India,they would win against what USA send there.
And USA could send more,instead of supporting soviets.

2.France have also SAU40 assault guns,and R.40.And it would be enough to stop germans.Even without any technology from 1968.
 

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