Tanks and other Armoured Vehicles Image thread.

[Marduk]

i'm seeing the blocks for era on the out side so that's one thing.
it also looks like a they've added the capacity to mount a CROWS.
and i'm betting that they've reworked and upgrade the electronics package

>adding
This is an actual new-new turret, not a modified one. It's half a new tank, just like Panther is a somewhat modified chassis of Leopard 2 and half new tank. Between the bustle autoloader and composite armor or some kind instead of M60's plain RHA, this is a poor man's Abrams now.
Also fun fact, they also mount that turret on T-72's, and if the 105 is kept, no more flying turret.


It also has an APS based on Ukrainian Zaslon-M.

IDEF 2019: Pulat APS displayed on M60 main battle tank

To meet a Turkish Land Forces Command (TLFC) urgent operational requirement, Aselsan has developed the Pulat hard-kill active protection system (APS) that leverages...

www.janes.com

 

[ShadowArxxy]

This is an actual new-new turret, not a modified one. It's half a new tank, just like Panther is a somewhat modified chassis of Leopard 2 and half new tank. Between the bustle autoloader and composite armor or some kind instead of M60's plain RHA, this is a poor man's Abrams now.

That's interesting, because while Turkey is the largest operator of M60s today and *was* the second largest after the United States even in its heyday, they have already fielded the "Sabra" upgrade for M60 which is fundamentally superior to this MZK, mounting a modern 120mm as opposed to retaining the comparatively puny original 105mm.

It also has an APS based on Ukrainian Zaslon-M.

IDEF 2019: Pulat APS displayed on M60 main battle tank

To meet a Turkish Land Forces Command (TLFC) urgent operational requirement, Aselsan has developed the Pulat hard-kill active protection system (APS) that leverages...

www.janes.com

It is in fact Sabra Mk. III that said "Pulat" APS was developed for.

 

[Marduk]

That's interesting, because while Turkey is the largest operator of M60s today and *was* the second largest after the United States even in its heyday, they have already fielded the "Sabra" upgrade for M60 which is fundamentally superior to this MZK, mounting a modern 120mm as opposed to retaining the comparatively puny original 105mm.



It is in fact Sabra Mk. III that said "Pulat" APS was developed for.

That sounds to me like perfectly rational response to their experiences in Syria and preparation for more similar conflicts.
After all, they aren't likely to encounter anything there that would be able to stop modern 105mm rounds, however there is a massive amount of threat from HEAT weapons that requires improvement in protection on all levels, including the golden standard of all ammo being in a separate from crew bustle with blow-out panels.
As such, for them the choice between somewhat better gun and much better protection clearly points towards the latter.
Like with the 125mm variant for T-72, guess they couldn't fit a decent enough amount of 120/125mm ammo in the bustle, while they can do it with smaller 105mm.

 

[AnimalNoodles]

BMPT in action

 

[Husky_Khan]

Self Propelled 81mm Mortar of the Indian Army on Parade.

This appears to be a Bactrian Variant in service with the Indian Border Security Force, as detailed by the 'double hump' design.

India rolls out mortar-toting camo camels for military parade

Mortar camels, anyone?

taskandpurpose.com

 

[ShadowArxxy]

As such, for them the choice between somewhat better gun and much better protection clearly points towards the latter.

That's not the choice they're making; Sabra Mk. III also has protection upgrades superior to those of MZK. The "choice" here is between the excellent upgrade that the Turkish military has developed for itself, or a cheaper and lower quality commercial knockoff that Roketsan is trying to market for export sale.

 

[Marduk]

That's not the choice they're making; Sabra Mk. III also has protection upgrades superior to those of MZK. The "choice" here is between the excellent upgrade that the Turkish military has developed for itself, or a cheaper and lower quality commercial knockoff that Roketsan is trying to market for export sale.

Sabra (M60T) main battle tank, 2005

The M60T also called by the Israeli Sabra, is an evolution of the Magach 7 based on the M60A3 MBT, heavily modified for the Turkish Armed forces.

www.tanks-encyclopedia.com

Stowage comprised necesarily less round than for a regular Magach 7, but still 42 rounds of ammunition are stored, some ready in turret's bins, others inside floor's compartments.

In what world is this protection superior to bustle storage with blow-out panels?

 

[PsihoKekec]

The "choice" here is between the excellent upgrade that the Turkish military has developed for itself,

Nope, Turkish military did not develop anything, Sabra is Israeli development and some components for the upgrade are still imported from Israel, given the downturn in relations between the two countries, it makes sense for them to turn to domestic industry.

 

[ShadowArxxy]

Sabra (M60T) main battle tank, 2005

The M60T also called by the Israeli Sabra, is an evolution of the Magach 7 based on the M60A3 MBT, heavily modified for the Turkish Armed forces.

www.tanks-encyclopedia.com

In what world is this protection superior to bustle storage with blow-out panels?

Consider that the actual military professionals in Turkey rejected the M60-2000 upgrade which *had* your vaunted bustle storage with blow-out panels, and selected instead the Sabra Mk. II upgrade because it offered superior capabilities all around. It seems the Israelis are better at designing tank upgrades than GDLS that just wanted to slap an Abrams turret on the M-60 and call it a day.

(As a corollary, there's a reason just about no other tank -- not even other Western tanks -- has an Abrams style setup. The blow-out panels work, but they're a very inefficient approach to crew survivability.)

 

[Marduk]

Consider that the actual military professionals in Turkey rejected the M60-2000 upgrade which *had* your vaunted bustle storage with blow-out panels, and selected instead the Sabra Mk. II upgrade because it offered superior capabilities all around. It seems the Israelis are better at designing tank upgrades than GDLS that just wanted to slap an Abrams turret on the M-60 and call it a day.

That happened before most of the COIN warfare experiences and Turkey's COIN style fighting in Syria was even expected.

(As a corollary, there's a reason just about no other tank -- not even other Western tanks -- has an Abrams style setup. The blow-out panels work, but they're a very inefficient approach to crew survivability.)

It's impossible to implement in older tanks without massive redesigns, as in at least completely new turret, if the tank can even handle such a big turret. It is however common in new(ish) designs with new turrets at least - K2PL, Panther, for what few such recent designs there are.

 

[ShadowArxxy]

It's impossible to implement in older tanks without massive redesigns, as in at least completely new turret, if the tank can even handle such a big turret. It is however common in new(ish) designs with new turrets at least - K2PL, Panther, for what few such recent designs there are.

The K2PL is little more than a "Koreanized" domestic version of the K1, which is an American-designed Abrams variant made for Korea. You can argue about how much of an actual next generation design it is or isn't, but the fact that it's part of the Abrams heritage is incontestable. The Panther doesn't really exist yet, and the bustle mounted magazines are a necessary compromise for the type of autoloader it uses.

The point is that, again, *just about* no other tank uses the Abrams style setup, including other Western tanks that are newer and more advanced than the Abrams. It's a design tradeoff, and MZK having it doesn't make it better than Sabra Mk. II/III.

 

[Marduk]

The K2PL is little more than a "Koreanized" domestic version of the K1, which is an American-designed Abrams variant made for Korea. You can argue about how much of an actual next generation design it is or isn't, but the fact that it's part of the Abrams heritage is incontestable. The Panther doesn't really exist yet, and the bustle mounted magazines are a necessary compromise for the type of autoloader it uses.

The point is that, again, *just about* no other tank uses the Abrams style setup, including other Western tanks that are newer and more advanced than the Abrams. It's a design tradeoff, and MZK having it doesn't make it better than Sabra Mk. II/III.

Panther has a functional prototype so i would suppose it does exist, as napkin tanks don't go to test ranges.

K2 is specifically meant to be different enough from K1 and Abrams to not fall under US export and IP laws. Also in Korean version is has an autoloader and ammo not fully isolated from the crew, being more comparable to Leclerc than Abrams. It's the PL version that has full ammo isolation as redesign feature.

K2 Black Panther - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

• K2PL: Proposed licensed version of K2 for Polish Armed Forces as a replacement for its aging fleet of T-72 and PT-91 tanks currently in service.[117] The K2PL retains most of the K2's features, such as the CN08 120 mm gun barrel, bustle type autoloader, pulse-doppler radar and In-arm suspension unit (ISU), but it differs from the original version, among others: longer hull length, addition of another, seventh pair of road wheels, ammunition storage isolated from the crew, additional armor of the turret and hull by adding detachable panels of layered armor, and in the case of the drive compartment, a mesh and bar armor, designed to protect against HEAT projectiles.[125] Under the framework agreement between PGZ and Hyundai Rotem on the supply of K2 and K2PL, 820 K2PLs will be produced in Poland under license from 2026.[101][102][103][104][126]

That might seem like just few cases, but how many new western tank designs were made over the last 20 years or so? That's a nice chunk of that number.

 

[Husky_Khan]

Venezuelan National.Guard Special Forces Tiuna with a Weapons Turret!



The Venezuelan National Guard is meant to be an internal security force so it's unlikely to see this pressed into Frontline service when they attempt to liberate Colombia.

 

[Husky_Khan]

I'm always disappointed that these size comparison videos never contain anything battle-tech in them.

Back by popular demand... Part II of the series with literally added commentary on a whole bunch of tanky vehicles the creators were accused of their overlooking!



Guess who got a biggest prize this time?

 

[ShadowArxxy]

As far as "internal security forces", there's always the French. . .



The is the Renault Véhicule Blindé de Combat, a fire support derivative of the Véhicule de l'Avant Blindé reconaissance armored car armed with a hypervelocity 90mm gun capable of killing a T-72.

While it was designed primarily for export, the primary purchaser ended up being France's own Mobile Gendarmerie, which is primarily a federal police force but also serves a dual role as a mechanized cavalry unit; 28 VBC-90s were purchased to replace the AMX light tanks of the Gendarmerie's single armor squadron.

 

[JagerIV]

I'm undertaking a little design project on a Leman Russ, something I seem inclined to do every now and again. The big idea I'm playing with is to embrace the WW1 design with a futuristic flair by giving it a 1 man turret: but, since its "advanced" tech, that may be less draining than historically, while cutting down weight. Something like the RAND 3 man, 1 man turret design.

An Exploration of Integrated Ground Weapons Concepts for Armor/Anti-Armor Missions

Summarizes the results of an analytic exploration of future armored vehicle designs. It focuses on the design of light and heavy anti-armor vehicles.

www.rand.org

Obviously with less armor, and the commander would be pulled forward so his legs can dangle in the turret ring, and makes contacting the driver/gunner in the front directly more possible, for a manual back up as it were.

With electronic drive, you could theoretically have command from anywhere, so theoretically the Commander in the turret or the driver/gunner in the hull (whichever would be higher ranked) could direct things from their position, giving some redundancy.

As much as the RAND corporation didn't seem to like the layout, I think it might actually have some promise and interesting features. For more specific Leman Russ talk, I should be creating a thread in vs and what ifs, which I think is the proper place for such design projects.

 

[Doomsought]

That is one tall turret.

 

[Husky_Khan]

Did someone ask for an Encore?

No... well too bad.

Part III of Fictional Tanks Size Comparison has been released by AmazingViz... I'm assuming solely due to popularity and nerdrage for things not mentioned.



I can only bet there was a lot of fan feedback on this one (just like with the Mechs/Mecha vid etc) but they got beautiful fictional tanks from lots of settings. Battletech, Dune, Metal Gear, Fallout, Destiny, Command & Conquer and various niche Nintendo or Sega or Computer games etc.

I don't think anyone will be able to guess who got the biggest tank this time.

Well actually maybe they would... but not the SECOND biggest tank featured in the video.

 

[Jormungandr]

Burmese Bren Carrier and Comet A34 Cruiser Tank in a Myanmar Military Parade from 2021.

Sauce (Twitter)

Armed Forces Day in Myanmar sees British World War 2 armored vehicles parade | Defense News March 2021 Global Security army industry | Defense Security global news industry army year 2021 | Archive News year

Comet A34 tanks, Bren Gun Carriers, Humber armored cars, Dingo and Ferret scout cars in pristine condition paraded with modern Chinese-made vehicles of the Myanmar army for its Armed Forces Day in Naypyidaw, the administrative capital city, on March 27.

www.armyrecognition.com

Blimey, I didn't realize they were still using the old Cruisers.

I guess it makes sense in hindsight, especially with how some nations are still using T-54's and the like, but the difference is that Soviet monkey models were exported everywhere, while British arms, in comparison, weren't.

I'd have thought there would've been some type of modernization package, even a crude one, for the tank, though? I can't see any differences to indicate it's been modified in some way...

 

[gral]

Blimey, I didn't realize they were still using the old Cruisers.

I guess it makes sense in hindsight, especially with how some nations are still using T-54's and the like, but the difference is that Soviet monkey models were exported everywhere, while British arms, in comparison, weren't.

I'd have thought there would've been some type of modernization package, even a crude one, for the tank, though? I can't see any differences to indicate it's been modified in some way...

AFAIK, there wasn't any evidence those Comets were being used, either in frontline or second-line service.