Movies Starship Troopers: The bugs did nothing wrong

[Carrot of Truth]

Clearly dealing with a gene stealer cultist here.

 

[ThatZenoGuy]

Clearly dealing with a gene stealer cultist here.

Stay on topic, this is Starship Troopers, not 40k.

 

[Crom's Black Blade]

It's not a matter of belief, it's a simple matter of the bugs being incapable of launching rocks across a galaxy. It doesn't pass the most minor levels of scrutiny.
Why would they launch just one rock if they intended to attack humanity? For that matter why would they launch a rock at all over a minor colonization incident? It's nonsensical. We can either choose to believe the propaganda shown to us (I don't believe in IRL propaganda let alone FICTIONAL ones) or do the more rational thing and understand it's all a lie.

They would be incapable in the real world. Within the movie with its own internal logic, they are fully capable until shown otherwise. This is compounded by the fact we know the State doesn't have a monopoly on opinion. We see a news reporter discuss a dissenting view in regards to the War. We see radically different viewpoints in regards to Bugs' intelligence. The universe, as Paul Verhoeven established within the first film, requires that any false flag operation must pass "the most minor levels of scrutiny". To ignore that is to break the internal logic of this universe.

Ie the movie establishes you can shoot plasma from one planet and send an asteroid hurtling towards another world in another star system almost instantly. That is what is "true" in this universe until we see evidence within that universe for that not to be the case

Nonsense, suspension of disbelief is contextual. I can believe in orcs and dragons in LoTR, but somebody driving a brand new BMW into Mordor would be silly

There's a difference between a suspension of disbelief, which is always going to be subjective on all manner of criteria, and using that broken disbelief as evidence for a film lying to you.

I am not saying you have to find bug plasma a particularly believable concept. Its completely believable and fine if that takes you out of the film and you can't enjoy it. What I am saying is just because you can't suspend your disbelief for that doesn't automatically make it out to be a deceit.

The bugs neither have ESP or wormholes, neither are shown in the first film. If there was a scene showing a bug 'ship' or spores going through a wormhole that'd be fine. But it's evident bugs really REALLY don't do anything space-related, aside from shitting into orbit.

We don't know if the Bugs have ESP. We know some humans have it, and therefore its possibly some Bugs may also have the ability, but we learn very little about the Bugs overall. We do get a telepathic bug IIRC in the third film, as well as more confirmed planets not in the Klendathu system with bugs,

As for the wormhole idea, I based that on the Roger Young scene and the asteroid having more way more gravity than it should suggesting something more is afoot than merely a purely kinetic asteroid.

But all of that is neither here nor there. The above is speculation on my part, as I stated, meant to help explain what we see in the movie. This is in contrast to your speculation which largely seems to ignore what we see in the movie.

You evidently get easily persuaded by fictional propaganda, you should read up on critical thinking skills. Very useful.

I'm a little confused as what this is in reference too. Are you referring to Paul Verhoeven meta-idea of this being, in part, a spoof on the old, gun-ho WWII flicks to "prove" how fascist America was/is? Or are you still hung up on your in-universe false flag narrative?

In which case you'd still need to show how it's impossible in-universe for the bugs to accomplish it.

 

[Crom's Black Blade]

Clearly dealing with a gene stealer cultist here.

No....the Imperium are liars and deceitful...deceitful! The hivemind only wants to bring new experiences to all and believes only united together...together can we be stronger than the sum of our parts...parts! xD

 

[Carrot of Truth]

Stay on topic, this is Starship Troopers, not 40k.

Actually in the later movies the bugs were shown as capable of something similar

 

[ThatZenoGuy]

Actually in the later movies the bugs were shown as capable of something similar

We're discussing the first film as it's the later ones don't quite understand what the first one was about.

They would be incapable in the real world. Within the movie with its own internal logic, they are fully capable until shown otherwise. This is compounded by the fact we know the State doesn't have a monopoly on opinion. We see a news reporter discuss a dissenting view in regards to the War. We see radically different viewpoints in regards to Bugs' intelligence. The universe, as Paul Verhoeven established within the first film, requires that any false flag operation must pass "the most minor levels of scrutiny". To ignore that is to break the internal logic of this universe.

Ie the movie establishes you can shoot plasma from one planet and send an asteroid hurtling towards another world in another star system almost instantly. That is what is "true" in this universe until we see evidence within that universe for that not to be the case

Nope, it does not establish that. Sorry.

There's a difference between a suspension of disbelief, which is always going to be subjective on all manner of criteria, and using that broken disbelief as evidence for a film lying to you.

I am not saying you have to find bug plasma a particularly believable concept. Its completely believable and fine if that takes you out of the film and you can't enjoy it. What I am saying is just because you can't suspend your disbelief for that doesn't automatically make it out to be a deceit.

Bug plasma goes pretty slow from what we can see, there's no way they would be capable of hitting an asteroid in their outer belts, let alone knocking it off course into another planet. It's just not possible with what we are shown.

But you know who could redirect an asteroid? The people with interstellar spacecraft.

We don't know if the Bugs have ESP. We know some humans have it, and therefore its possibly some Bugs may also have the ability, but we learn very little about the Bugs overall. We do get a telepathic bug IIRC in the third film, as well as more confirmed planets not in the Klendathu system with bugs,

As for the wormhole idea, I based that on the Roger Young scene and the asteroid having more way more gravity than it should suggesting something more is afoot than merely a purely kinetic asteroid.

But all of that is neither here nor there. The above is speculation on my part, as I stated, meant to help explain what we see in the movie. This is in contrast to your speculation which largely seems to ignore what we see in the movie.

The bugs are never stated to use wormholes, hell they cannot possibly know what a wormhole even is as they lack telescopes or...Well anything to look into deep space. At best they can target things sitting in orbit and they still suck at that.

But you know who does know what wormholes are? The people with interstellar spacecraft.

I'm a little confused as what this is in reference too. Are you referring to Paul Verhoeven meta-idea of this being, in part, a spoof on the old, gun-ho WWII flicks to "prove" how fascist America was/is? Or are you still hung up on your in-universe false flag narrative?

In which case you'd still need to show how it's impossible in-universe for the bugs to accomplish it.

No I am just saying you should use critical thinking skills for a movie that's supposed to satirize the book. Instead of the alien attack being very-much real (justified or not), he just flipped the script and made it into a fraud.

 

[Carrot of Truth]

We're discussing the first film as it's the later ones don't quite understand what the first one was about.

Nope, it does not establish that. Sorry.

Bug plasma goes pretty slow from what we can see, there's no way they would be capable of hitting an asteroid in their outer belts, let alone knocking it off course into another planet. It's just not possible with what we are shown.

But you know who could redirect an asteroid? The people with interstellar spacecraft.

The bugs are never stated to use wormholes, hell they cannot possibly know what a wormhole even is as they lack telescopes or...Well anything to look into deep space. At best they can target things sitting in orbit and they still suck at that.

But you know who does know what wormholes are? The people with interstellar spacecraft.


No I am just saying you should use critical thinking skills for a movie that's supposed to satirize the book. Instead of the alien attack being very-much real (justified or not), he just flipped the script and made it into a fraud.

The first film was written by an actual communist

 

[ThatZenoGuy]

The first film was written by an actual communist

I mean sure it might've been, but that only gives more credence to OP. Why would a commie want to depict the humans as the good guys?
You don't have to like it, but that's just how it is. The bugs did nothing wrong, and humanity are terrible in it.
I mean they're actively working on Psychic SS troopers to brainwash humans.

 

[Crom's Black Blade]

Actually in the later movies the bugs were shown as capable of something similar

Indeed. Plus the awful similarity between the chariot bugs we see transporting the Brain Bug and the arkellian sand beetles Rico dissected in class makes me wonder, much like the Tyranids, the Bugs are assimilating species into their collective or alternatively the sand beetles evolved from chariot bugs who "went feral" like say in a failed colonization attempt eons before humanity encountered them.

Nope, it does not establish that. Sorry.

A lot to unpack. For starters, the Federation bluntly states they can do this establishing that, in this universe, they can do this just like a man can fly in Superman films despite all logic saying he can't. So barring a canon source stating the Bugs can't or an example of them being incapable then they *CAN*.

Further, you keep ignoring how the State doesn't have a monopoly on "truth". If the story of the Arachnids was as impossible as you claim then it wouldn't be believable. So even if it was an inside job it mandates the Bugs have the capability or the potential thereof.

See that is critical thinking, arriving at an independent conclusion based on rationally observation of the evidence even if it wasn't the outcome the artist in question may have desired.

Bug plasma goes pretty slow from what we can see, there's no way they would be capable of hitting an asteroid in their outer belts, let alone knocking it off course into another planet.

In our reality. In there's, not so much.

But you know who could redirect an asteroid?

The Arachnid Empire, the entity which sent several to attack Earth and over five films, including a direct sequel to the first movie, have shown nothing but hostile intentions towards humanity.

The bugs are never stated to use wormholes,

And I never stated otherwise. I'm not quite sure why you are so hung up on this.

hell they cannot possibly know what a wormhole

Considering they can accurately target alien planets like Earth they clearly have some long range detection capability. I mean its almost as if an interstellar empire is interstellar or something.

No I am just saying you should use critical thinking skills for a movie that's supposed to satirize the book

https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/DeathOfTheAuthor

What Paul intended is irrelevant to this discussion. We are evaluating the Terran Federation using the framework of the Starship Trooper film(s) and nothing more.

 

[Carrot of Truth]

I mean sure it might've been, but that only gives more credence to OP. Why would a commie want to depict the humans as the good guys?
You don't have to like it, but that's just how it is. The bugs did nothing wrong, and humanity are terrible in it.
I mean they're actively working on Psychic SS troopers to brainwash humans.

I could care less they are bugs and I'm a human, I will pick humanity over disgusting bugs every single time regardless of morality.

 

[ThatZenoGuy]

Considering they can accurately target alien planets like Earth they clearly have some long range detection capability. I mean its almost as if an interstellar empire is interstellar or something.

They're neither interstellar, or capable of targeting planets. Refer to OP.

I could care less they are bugs and I'm a human, I will pick humanity over disgusting bugs every single time regardless of morality.

They're fictional bugs and fictional humans. I think you're taking works of fiction a little too seriously. Humans are depicted as being the bad guys in multiple fictions (...And usually they're terrible because of it).

 

[Carrot of Truth]

They're fictional bugs and fictional humans. I think you're taking works of fiction a little too seriously. Humans are depicted as being the bad guys in multiple fictions (...And usually they're terrible because of it).

Why would I ever pick bugs?

 

[Crom's Black Blade]

They're neither interstellar, or capable of targeting planets. Refer to OP.

I'm referring to the first film were they fling their spores into space to colonize alien planets, a direct parallel to humans developing space flight and how we should let interstellar travel "get to our heads", and targeted Earth at least twice that we know about.

 

[ThatZenoGuy]

Why would I ever pick bugs?

You don't have to pick bugs, but an objectively wrong choice is pro-Federation.
Hell if you want to pick humanity's side, the space-Mormons were objectively right.

 

[ThatZenoGuy]

I'm referring to the first film were they fling their spores into space to colonize alien planets, a direct parallel to humans developing space flight and how we should let interstellar travel "get to our heads", and targeted Earth at least twice that we know about.

And yet we don't see a single bug on any planet outside of their own solar system. Ergo, they're not interstellar, they're interplanetary.
Almost like the movie is full of ridiculous propaganda. ;D

 

[Crom's Black Blade]

You don't have to pick bugs, but an objectively wrong choice is pro-Federation.

Really, defending yourself from an aggressive, hostile species is objectively wrong now?

 

[ThatZenoGuy]

Really, defending yourself from an aggressive, hostile species is objectively wrong now?

Last time I checked you're not 'defending yourself' when you encircle somebody's territory, and start colonizing their planets lmao.
Especially when you 'defend yourself' from your own false flags.

 

[Carrot of Truth]

What exactly is the goal for this argument anyways? At worse the bugs are just a highly dangerous invasive species that needs to be eliminated by your own arguments. So I am not sure where you are going with this.

 

[ThatZenoGuy]

What exactly is the goal for this argument anyways? At worse the bugs are just a highly dangerous invasive species that needs to be eliminated by your own arguments. So I am not sure where you are going with this.

They're invasive by not exceeding the borders of their own solarsystem, and having no confirmed invasions of any human planet seen onscreen? Interesting...
Dangerous? Of course. But that's basically any creature.

 

[Carrot of Truth]

They're invasive by not exceeding the borders of their own solarsystem, and having no confirmed invasions of any human planet seen onscreen? Interesting...
Dangerous? Of course. But that's basically any creature.

They were literally launching meteors at earth and other planets its made clear in the first movie that they do that. FTL is never actually clarified for either side so we have no choice but to assume both sides are capable of it.