Star Wars Star Wars Discussion Thread - LET THE PAST D-! Oh, wait, nevermind

Umm...there 'viewership minutes' are down to something like 30% of what they were even a couple years ago. That's not good.

A couple years ago, when "Baby Yoda" was basically dominating pop culture?

Star Wars is a tough thing though. Andor was by far the best thing that has been put out in... maybe ever for SW... and it got the lowest viewership of any of the shows...
 
Andor was by far the best thing that has been put out in... maybe ever for SW... and it got the lowest viewership of any of the shows...
Yeah. They have killed their core audience.

The audience they have now are the ones that go nuts over a ridiculous cameo from Anakin without caring at all about how good the story or writing are. So a slow well thought out story like Andor is like poison to them.

The people that would have loved Andor were the people they drove off and the people that stayed were turned off by the lack of nostalgia bait and thoughtless action that is the main thing all the other shows provide.
 
The audience they have now are the ones that go nuts over a ridiculous cameo from Anakin without caring at all about how good the story or writing are. So a slow well thought out story like Andor is like poison to them.
*Sigh*

You know I remember when the prequel fans and the OT purist had a similar war and the prequel fans expressed a simillar setement to what you just described above except the ages were reversed. It was the newer fans dismissing the original fans.


Another reminder to me that war never changes.
 
Yeah. They have killed their core audience.

The people that would have loved Andor were the people they drove off and the people that stayed were turned off by the lack of nostalgia bait and thoughtless action that is the main thing all the other shows provide.

I both loved Andor and... generally enjoyed the rest of the shows to varying degrees. Nothing had been bad.

I'm ok with thoughtless action in Star Wars though. At it's core, Star Wars is pulp science fantasy / Flash Gordon schlock. It's ok for it to be that.

Star Wars is big enough that you could have the "I can't swim" from Andor exist in the same universe as Jar Jar Binks stepping Bantha poodoo and it still makes sense.
 
Streaming services are expensive to maintain. being down on those numbers is huge. the parks numbers being down is big too. that was a consistent cash cow for the mouse and it is drying up. add in the issues with their movies like Indiana Jones or pixar movies not performing (Buzz lightyear in particular) or the live action movies all being worse than the originals. Disney has some major issues and can only coast on it's brand and name recognition for so long.
 
I both loved Andor and... generally enjoyed the rest of the shows to varying degrees. Nothing had been bad.
I think we're just going to have to agree to disagree at this point.

I think it's fine for anyone to like anything. People's tastes are subjective. No big deal.

But if your stance is that the Disney stuff is, on a measurable scale, at worst mediocre, then our standards are so utterly different as to be incompatible.
 
I've long been a core audience type for Star Wars, and frankly Andor had no appeal to me at all. This claim that it would appeal to long term fans of the franchise who have been turned off by Disney, as I have with a lot of their recent offerings, doesn't hold water, because Andor suffers from the same problem that almost all of current Star Wars, including all the Sequel movies, suffers from: A fundamental misunderstanding of the core of Star Wars.

Star Wars, at it's core, is a Heroic Epic pitting larger than life Good against larger than life Evil. Say what you will about the Prequels, but they still understood this core aspect of Star Wars. Star Wars is not a setting about shades of gray, no matter how much people pretend or want it to be. It is an explicitly Black and White setting founded in a form of Absolutist Morality where the Means are just as, if not more, important than the Ends.

This is why the Force and the lore around it is so important to Star Wars, and any Star Wars property that brushes aside the Force ends up being hollow.

But Star War's core morality is at odds with the preferred morality of the modern world. Star Wars, at it's core, embraces a Stoic / Christian / Buddhist hybrid philosophy of enlightenment, where denial of personal wants and desires in pursuit of higher ideals is seen as a Good Thing, while indulging in self pleasure and hedonism is seen as explicitly a Bad Thing. That holds up hard work and self improvement as good goals, while denying that people are just innately good at things because of who they are. It sees the Means as just as, if not more important, than the Ends, and in fact holds that the Means by which you go about things will actually end up impacting your Ends even if you did not want it to. There is no "using evil powers for good" within the core of Star Wars, as as you use evil powers to pursue your goals they will invariably twist you until you destroy your own original goal (see, for instance, the entire Fall of Anakin).
 
This is why the Force and the lore around it is so important to Star Wars, and any Star Wars property that brushes aside the Force ends up being hollow.
I would disagree with this.

The X wing books are some of the best stuff from the EU and it primarily deals with a group of fighter pilots fighting the empire. Tactical and strategic stuff with a side of intrigue.

The force is still there but it's not a focus or vital plot point.

It's a big setting with room for all kinds of stories.

They just need to be well written and not lazy garbage.
 
I mean, Luke os considered to be the character that seels the best of the EU..
 
I've long been a core audience type for Star Wars, and frankly Andor had no appeal to me at all. This claim that it would appeal to long term Star Wars, at it's core, embraces a Stoic / Christian / Buddhist hybrid philosophy of enlightenment.

The problem is these three philosophies tend to clash in terms of end goals and what is enlightenment.

Stoicism's end goal seems to be becoming beings of pure logic

Buddhist seems to lean more towards the idea of shedding one physical existence altogether and becoming a being of pure energy

Christianity in the meantime is all about embracing emotions and attachments, but to positive or light ones, Love, Duty, Honor, ect.

trying to mash these three philosophies together is why the Jedi of the Prequels seems to be such a contradictory almost schizophrenic mess. It's like trying to mash Hellenic Paganism, Norse Paganism, and Christianity into a single religion.
 
is why the Jedi of the prequals seems to be such a contradictory almost schizophrenic mess.
Hmm... Yeah.

Not one of Lucas's better world building ideas.

There is something there. Anakin wanting some attachment that goes against jedi tradition and that being the crack Palpatine uses to corrupt him.

But it was executed so poorly the jedi seem absolutely insane.

Taking kids if they were force sensitive. Trying to cut off all attachments. Just... the brain dead stupidity and bad decisions at every turn.

It really did kind of come out of nowhere. I don't recall any of that in the OT or EU.

My Luke got married to Mara Jade. Screw that no attachments nonsense.
 
It's like trying to mash Hellenic Paganism, Norse Paganism, and Christianity into a single religion.
Which is also where a noteworthy bit of Catholic weirdness comes from, incidentally. Though much more of it is Roman instead of Norse Paganism, owing to the whole "Sol Invictus" thing that incredibly blatantly ended up laying groundwork for ruling class conversions to get off the shitlist.

The worst offender of this is the trinity, that the soundest explanations I can find for resort to refusing reason altogether, either openly declaring it an incomprehensible Mystery or resorting to some odd ontological assertions regarding Eternal existence.
 
I think we're just going to have to agree to disagree at this point.

But if your stance is that the Disney stuff is, on a measurable scale, at worst mediocre, then our standards are so utterly different as to be incompatible.

I'm not sure what kind of measurable scale you would even use, other than viewership.

In that case, everything Disney has done is good to mediocre. Solo is the closest thing you can get to a "flop" in Star Wars, and I think that had less to do with its quality, and more to do with coming out after TLJ.

I do think that most anything here is going to be subjective.
 
This seems like a rather terrible way of determining quality.

By that logic some transformers movies made money therefore they are good movies.

How much something makes or how many people view it has absolutely nothing to do with how actually good it is.
See example A: The Twilight Saga
 
True enough, but it’s one of the few things that really springs to my mind for being both insanely popular and also insanely reviled at the same time.

I don’t even think Disney Wars Sequels got that same level of treatment; but maybe I’m just getting old.
This one is how I always felt that should have ended:
BladeTwilight.jpg


Now back on topic:
My biggest problem for the new Wars was that everyone seemed to just never really see our Heroin suffer true personal loss or even have a challenge without being rescued by her Force Powers being set to Auto.
 

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