Star Wars Star Wars Discussion Thread - LET THE PAST D-! Oh, wait, nevermind

The movie we got was bleh but the horror trailer was fantastic. Wish the movie was like that. Also, RIP the scene where they're charging towards the AT-ATs. Didn't make it into the final cut. Wonder what the movie before the reshoots was like.

 
Of course the biggest indictment of Rogue One is that it just doesn't make any sense. Apparently whoever made it (and all the people who are fans of it), are only partly aware of the actual opening scene from the original movies, where it is quite clearly stated that the reason the Star Destroyer attacked that ship and was convinced that the plans were on board in digital form was because they intercepted transmissions meant for that ship.

I would argue that -- particularly given Vader's laconic tendencies and lack of patience for Rebels fucking around, "Several transmissions were beamed to this ship by Rebel spies." is a perfectly adequate summation of, "Several transmissions were beamed to the ship that was carrying this ship, by Rebel spies."

Yet in Rogue One we have the rebels fumbling about with a physical disk and Vader showing up in person, and fanboys going "no wonder he was so mad."

Vader being mad would have to do with Leia blatantly lying to his face when she's claiming she has no idea what he's talking about and that the Tantive IV is a diplomatic ship.

. . . a "diplomatic ship" which Vader personally observed taking off from a Rebel warship that attacked an Imperial data facility. Leia might be the good guy in this situation, but she's also being an entitled twit of an Imperial Senator and Vader is rather justified in being short with her.
 
Except he didn't, because that isn't what it said in the opening crawl or in the opening scenes of the actual movie this is supposed to be a prequel to. You're making excuses.

The opening crawl doesn't say anything about transmissions. That was only in Vader's dialogue with Captain Antilles and then again with Leia, and again, any minor inconsistency is in fact consistent with Vader's laconic use of words.

The ANH opening crawl is vague and poetic enough to be completely compatible with Rogue One:

It is a period of civil war.
Rebel spaceships, striking
from a hidden base, have won
their first victory against
the evil Galactic Empire.

During the battle, Rebel
spies managed to steal secret
plans to the Empire's
ultimate weapon, the DEATH
STAR, an armored space
station with enough power to
destroy an entire planet.

Pursued by the Empire's
sinister agents, Princess
Leia races home aboard her
starship, custodian of the
stolen plans that can save
her people and restore
freedom to the galaxy....
 
So because something else is also stupid, that excuses this example of stupidity which actually made it onto screen?
 
More galactic states was definitely something Star Wars needed from a worldbuilding perspective tbh, to keep things interesting. Even back in the Old Republic era having only two with the Republic and Sith Empire feels scant. IMO this is why the Mandalorians get at much love as they do in the fandom - they add some much needed variety. Also just to have the states that do exist make sense - Star Wars often seems like it's copying things from IRL states without the needed interstate realities that are necessary for those things to occur.

Not sure why they didn't add them in the prequels.
Quite right. A general trait I’ve seen in various Star Wars “what if” maps on Deviantart is that they often incorporate a four or five-way galactic split into the plot. I get why the Galaxy is presented in a binary way in the films, though-worldbuilding has to play second fiddle to keeping things simple for moviegoing audiences.
 
So because something else is also stupid, that excuses this example of stupidity which actually made it onto screen?

more like it's one of those small story bits that was quickly scrapped and forgot about as the story expanded. Basically it can go in the same pile as "Yeah guys Leia was totally intended to be luke's sister from the very beginning." and "Anakin and Dooku totally didn't meet each other between II & 3."

Spoiler alert: Leia being Luke's sister was a last minute change because lucas didn't want to risk loose threads and even before the release of episode 3 there was tie-in material stories that involved Anakin and Dooku having a rematch. especially in video games.
 
more like it's one of those small story bits that was quickly scrapped and forgot about as the story expanded. Basically it can go in the same pile as "Yeah guys Leia was totally intended to be luke's sister from the very beginning." and "Anakin and Dooku totally didn't meet each other between II & 3."
Nah, it was ignored or forgotten about, and now the people who like this movie just make excuses to have this particular fan service scene.
 
It depends heavily on the continuity, but I've been wondering about what AH looks like within the Star Wars universe? I have a short list of some likely counterfactuals, though it's a far cry from comprehensive. Something else worth noting is that different people will have different takes on each of these scenarios, with no two people's executions of the general premises offered above looking quite the same (as is true in real life).

Alderaan Lives: Debatable PoD here, but the premise is exactly as it says in the title. How the timeline would diverge down the line, I don't know.

Darth Vader's Trial: Don't have a perfect analogy for this one, but I've a feeling that if it went down, it'd be more or less the in-universe equivalent to having Heinrich Himmler captured and tried alongside the other high-ranking Nazis (trying Hitler would be synonymous with trying Palpatine). Granted, the New Republic may have hosted their own version of the Nuremberg Trials, but having the Emperor's Enforcer himself there to face justice would make it even more sensational than it must've been canonically.

Lasting Galactic Empire: Probably the in-universe equivalent of a "victorious Third Reich" scenario, and a similarly done-to-death premise, at that. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised to find a Man in the High Castle equivalent or few that becomes a hit series, once the Empire is no more and liberal democracy has returned to the Galaxy.

No Blockade of Naboo: The Trade Federation leaves Naboo alone, so perhaps Palpatine pursues a different route to seizing power. Not sure why he'd do it, but from the perspective of in-universe AH fans who don't know about the long-running Sith scheming, it may be a topic that comes up periodically.

Surviving CIS: The Confederacy survives as more than a few Separatist holdouts, allowing it to maintain its Droid Army and keep fighting the newly formed Galactic Empire, leading to a prolonged Clone Wars. For this to happen, I'd think that having the Separatist Council avoid being slaughtered is key. Or at least, ensuring the Separatists have a viable backup plan, in case their leadership is decapitated (both figuratively and literally).

Twilight of the Dark Lord: An in-universe equivalent to AH.com's Twilight of the Red Tsar TL, in which Emperor Palpatine endures a sudden bout of madness--whether it's the Dark Side clouding his senses, a vision of how the Rebels won IOTL, or something else--that throws pretty much all his restraint into a black hole as he goes full Khmer Rouge mode onto the Galaxy. Which only incites larger rebellions across Imperial space, with the Operation: Cinder-esque responses from the Imperial Military only fanning the flames further. In any case, I think that once it's all over, any admiration for Palpatine or the New Order that survived canonically is completely dashed here (save for a tiny fringe of nihilistic stupids who'd get blasted full of laser bolts, if they ever went public with their views).

The last one, of course, is more of a specific TL idea than a scenario that's open to discussion and "collaborative" insights from various thread participants. However, I think it was worth mentioning, since it's an idea that strikes me as obviously characteristic of at least Canon Palpatine, if he got a glimpse of his OTL fate a few years early. I'd write it myself, but I have neither the time nor the wherewithal to. However, anyone else is more than welcome to take a stab at it (though I also request they credit me and link to this post, should they do so).
It’s fairly deep lore, but based on what I’ve read of the essential guide to warfare, some kind of setting where Xim the Despot conquered the Hutts and leads the Tionese empire to defeat the republic, thus altering 20000+ years of galactic history, might be an interesting premise for galactic readers.
 
Rogue One has issues

But at least those are mostly matters of "doesn't quite fit the continuity" rather than "This Story is, in and of itself, shit"
Maybe it isn't shit; but I'll never know. Because by the time Rogue One came out, I had already completely lost interest in Star Wars. Which is funny from my perspective, because mind you; this was before The Last Jedi came out, and the franchise somehow got infinitely worse.
 
It’s fairly deep lore, but based on what I’ve read of the essential guide to warfare, some kind of setting where Xim the Despot conquered the Hutts and leads the Tionese empire to defeat the republic, thus altering 20000+ years of galactic history, might be an interesting premise for galactic readers.
The famous question of "what if Alexander the Great had lived longer, expanding into the West and preventing the rise of Rome". But in space.
 
It’s fairly deep lore, but based on what I’ve read of the essential guide to warfare, some kind of setting where Xim the Despot conquered the Hutts and leads the Tionese empire to defeat the republic, thus altering 20000+ years of galactic history, might be an interesting premise for galactic readers.

Yeah, that’d alter the Galaxy in ways both real-world fans and in-universe denizens would consider terribly alien.

Although, I don’t suppose anyone here is curious to take a crack at precisely that? Even if prognosticating the next 25,000 years is too much, I’m at least interested in the next few centuries (or millennia) after Xim’s triumph. Not to mention its effects on wars between the Light and Dark, which are still bound to happen, given that it’s Star Wars we’re talking about.
 
The famous question of "what if Alexander the Great had lived longer, expanding into the West and preventing the rise of Rome". But in space.
Mmm...By the way we charecterized him, I imagine it would basically mean the end of the Hutts/ genocide of Ailens before it all goes to hell with his death.
 
Just 25 minutes, and really gets to the heart of the failure. The sequel trilogy is inherently "anti". It's even anti-itself, but ultimately it's just anti-Star Wars in every possible way.



Thanks for posting this here. I kept seeing it pop up in my recommendations and I was like "I don't want to see another video about the Sequel Trilogy" but it turns out it actually did have some fresh, hot new insights into it all.
 

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