Star Wars Star Wars Discussion Thread - LET THE PAST D-! Oh, wait, nevermind

[ShadowsOfParadox]

If we fo by your point, anything unshielded would never be able to fly I'm space because they would be hitting space dust at insane speeds....

Most things in Star Wars actually aren't flying through space all that fast when not in Hyperspace. You don't even need to start talking c-fractional velocities, some of them are only barely into "would be supersonic in atmosphere". That's very much not a problem you need combat capable shielding to solve. If Hyperspace ramming is a thing at all then anything going Hyperspace needs shields that can handle nearly infinite energy quantities, it's better if it's "just" the entry to Hyperspace but it's still terrible. Again, as I've said earlier, if you can interact with real space while also getting anywhere near c you need to be able to handle absurd energy amounts, if you are going faster than c we are now talking literally greater than infinite amounts of energy in every collision. A TIE being able to shoot down an X-Wing with shields that can handle even just entry to Hyperspace in a world with the Holdo Manuever should be able to do what the Death Star did.

Oh, and claiming "In Star Wars space is emptier" collapses, because we have an example, in Disney Canon, of exiting Hyperspace IN ATMOSPHERE!!!!!!!!!

The Holdo Manuever and Starkiller Base contradict.

EDIT: Normally space dust isn't a huge issue, see the Space Shuttle or the ISS, it's ONLY when you start talking about c and c-fractional velocities that it starts being a problem.

 

[The Whispering Monk]

Normally space dust isn't a huge issue, see the Space Shuttle or the ISS, it's ONLY when you start talking about c and c-fractional velocities that it starts being a problem.

One of the reason the shuttle has less issues with it is b/c of Earth's gravity pulling those particles out of the likely path of the shuttle.

 

[Zachowon]

Of course a normal ram would be useless, just like an A-Wing would be too small and fragile to get through an SSD's fire and do any damage hitting the bridge.

It took a whole fleet, and the A wing is fast as fuck.

Yes, but this is a MonCal Cruiser we're talking about. One can't reasonably argue that it wouldn't do enough damage when the A-Wing did, nor that it would be impossible for it to get through enemy fire when the A-Wing did.

The Raddus was low on fuel and had no ammo. It was basically a sitting duck.

Most things in Star Wars actually aren't flying through space all that fast when not in Hyperspace. You don't even need to start talking c-fractional velocities, some of them are only barely into "would be supersonic in atmosphere". That's very much not a problem you need combat capable shielding to solve. If Hyperspace ramming is a thing at all then anything going Hyperspace needs shields that can handle nearly infinite energy quantities, it's better if it's "just" the entry to Hyperspace but it's still terrible. Again, as I've said earlier, if you can interact with real space while also getting anywhere near c you need to be able to handle absurd energy amounts, if you are going faster than c we are now talking literally greater than infinite amounts of energy in every collision. A TIE being able to shoot down an X-Wing with shields that can handle even just entry to Hyperspace in a world with the Holdo Manuever should be able to do what the Death Star did.

Oh, and claiming "In Star Wars space is emptier" collapses, because we have an example, in Disney Canon, of exiting Hyperspace IN ATMOSPHERE!!!!!!!!!

The Holdo Manuever and Starkiller Base contradict.

EDIT: Normally space dust isn't a huge issue, see the Space Shuttle or the ISS, it's ONLY when you start talking about c and c-fractional velocities that it starts being a problem.

They pulled a thing that is basically impossible and was only able to do it because it was Han and the Falcon.

The shields on the Raddus are what kept the ship alive the whole time, and concentrated was more of a bubble compared to other ships.

For instance, in Legwnds canon two star destroyers dropping out of hyperspace rammed a SSD and were conpeltly destroyed while the SSD was unharmed. Because of the strength of the shields.

It is something similar here, woth the opposite happening. The Raddus shields AMPLIFIED the destruction making a giant plasma shotgun.

 

[Bear Ribs]

It took a whole fleet, and the A wing is fast as fuck.

What fleet? Ackbar called for all fire on the SSD but we see it go down a few seconds later with no incoming fire from the fleet visible except two A-Wings, the A-Wings seem to have done it all themselves unless you pull on outside-of-movie sources.

The Raddus was low on fuel and had no ammo. It was basically a sitting duck.

They pulled a thing that is basically impossible and was only able to do it because it was Han and the Falcon.

The shields on the Raddus are what kept the ship alive the whole time, and concentrated was more of a bubble compared to other ships.

For instance, in Legwnds canon two star destroyers dropping out of hyperspace rammed a SSD and were conpeltly destroyed while the SSD was unharmed. Because of the strength of the shields.

It is something similar here, woth the opposite happening. The Raddus shields AMPLIFIED the destruction making a giant plasma shotgun.

You don't need ammo to ram, and it had clearly enough fuel to keep going at least a few moments more given it had enough in the tank for a hyperjump so those objections are meaningless. The hyperjump from the atmosphere wasn't Han and the Falcon, it was some scrubs in a random clunker in Rogue One.

 

[Zachowon]

What fleet? Ackbar called for all fire on the SSD but we see it go down a few seconds later with no incoming fire from the fleet visible except two A-Wings, the A-Wings seem to have done it all themselves unless you pull on outside-of-movie sources.

You don't need ammo to ram, and it had clearly enough fuel to keep going at least a few moments more given it had enough in the tank for a hyperjump so those objections are meaningless. The hyperjump from the atmosphere wasn't Han and the Falcon, it was some scrubs in a random clunker in Rogue One.

Both did it actually.
One went to, the other went from. Both were very risky and could have killed them.

It had barely enough fuel for a single hyperjump, and the Supremacy saw it was charging for a hyperspace jump so they ignored it. If it wasn't for that they would have switched all but like two batteries and it would have destroyed the Raddus, then they switch back to the shuttles.

I ment yhe Rebel fleet shooting the SSD

 

[ShadowsOfParadox]

It is something similar here, woth the opposite happening. The Raddus shields AMPLIFIED the destruction making a giant plasma shotgun.

Doesn't matter. That it's possible at all breaks the setting over it's knee AND contradicts Han showing up to Starkiller Base.

 

[BlackDragon98]

i have questions. Why did they not build a second star forge? Mass produce the sun crusher? Mass produce the galaxy gun?

Star Forge was Rakata tech and force based.

it's not like there was any Rakata left in the known galaxy (there were small groups in the Unknown Regions; Rakatan Archipelago)

Sun Crusher and Galaxy gun were from two of the worst arcs in EU, the Daala campaign and Palps 2.0

Disney literally took the two worst arcs from EU and tossed them into their soulless commercial product (sun crusher ramming ISD bridge and palpy coming back and going batshit insane)

 

[Bacle]

I just want to see if Disney keeps the Correlian Crisis and Black Fleet Crisis arcs, or the 'Diversity Alliance' arc from the Young Jedi Knights series.

The latter on would piss off a lot of the Left and show the natural end point of groups like BLM and Antifa

 

[Bear Ribs]

Both did it actually.
One went to, the other went from. Both were very risky and could have killed them.

It had barely enough fuel for a single hyperjump, and the Supremacy saw it was charging for a hyperspace jump so they ignored it. If it wasn't for that they would have switched all but like two batteries and it would have destroyed the Raddus, then they switch back to the shuttles.

You say they'd do this, I think otherwise. You can't fundamentally prove your assumptions here because you're predicting the future. Given that Snoke was half the man he used to be at this point and Kylo unconscious, their leadership was basically decapitated which is ideal for causing them to make confused mistakes. Especially it's likely Hux would be the highest surviving person in command.

I ment yhe Rebel fleet shooting the SSD

Pics or it didn't happen.

 

[KilroywasNOTHere]

Star Forge was Rakata tech and force based.

it's not like there was any Rakata left in the known galaxy (there were small groups in the Unknown Regions; Rakatan Archipelago)

Sun Crusher and Galaxy gun were from two of the worst arcs in EU, the Daala campaign and Palps 2.0

Disney literally took the two worst arcs from EU and tossed them into their soulless commercial product (sun crusher ramming ISD bridge and palpy coming back and going batshit insane)

Honestly they should have done the Star Forge instead of the Starkiller base or maybe in conjuction with it. It would have perfectly explain how what should have been a bunch of branch dividian neo nazis with no resources were able to build in army stronger than the new republic's right under their nose in very little time. You could have it to where palpatine discovered "How to recreate a powerful weapon from the days of the Old Sith wars but." but was killed before he could use it.

to the Sequel Trilogies (Very little) credit. It was mercifully put down before it ever reached Crystal Star or Revan levels of bad quality. My girl Meetra was done dirty. To put Revan in perspective. Imagine if Luke Skywallker (revan) and Ahsoka Tano (Meetra Surik) were put into a story except they were uncharacteristically dumb and made several amateurish decisions. To make things worse it ends with a resurrected darth maul (Lord Scourge) killing Ahsoka after she uncharacteristically trust him, besting GRANDMASTER luke skywallker in a lightsaber fight and delivering him to some unknown Sith master (Vitiate or Valekron as he was called in the infinity empire) who apparently has been in the shadows manipulating the events of the story all along. Turned out Anakin didin't turn to the darkside on his own, it was this unknown sith lord whom mind controlled him the whole time. It wasn't luke who destroyed the death star, the unknown sith lord used his force powers to destroy it.

the whole Darth Cadius arc wasn't good in my opinion either. I don't care what a certain person who is no longer on this site says.

 

[ShadowsOfParadox]

They pulled a thing that is basically impossible and was only able to do it because it was Han and the Falcon.

The part that needed Han and the Falcon was the timing. Oh, by the way, the shields being a threat while in Hyperspace at all is weird and nonsensical. Again, things in Hyperspace cannot interact with the real world or we're talking FTL collisions and inifnite energy shields. And of course, if them going fast gets them through the shield they'd be going fast enough to splatter on contact with the atmosphere, much like water, going fast enough WILL mean you treat a gas like a solid. Oh, and it ALSO breaks the gravity well rule because we SEE them acting on the surface and they are acting at 1G, of course they, they filmed it on Earth and didn't bother to make any effort to fake a lower gravity. Guess what? So's ALL THE PLANETS WE'VE BEEN TOLD THEY CAN'T HYPERSPACE in the grav well of. That scene breaks the canon over it's knee too, it just takes a bit more thinking.

For instance, in Legwnds canon two star destroyers dropping out of hyperspace rammed a SSD and were conpeltly destroyed while the SSD was unharmed. Because of the strength of the shields.

Dropping out of Hyperspace, that thing that every time we see it drops all momentum and leaves the ship at a standstill? Oh, btw, if they were going at any speed at all that achievement would make SSD shields so impenetrable that essentially nothing would break them. Of course, that's why that's a one off from one comic and no one bothered repeating anything like it or hinting at anything like it until the stupid Holdo Maneuver. I'm pretty sure it didn't even come up in the wankiest of wanky Versus Debates until the fekking Holdo Maneuver, certainly, I never saw it in any of them.

It is something similar here, woth the opposite happening. The Raddus shields AMPLIFIED the destruction making a giant plasma shotgun.

Dude, literally anything any noticeable fraction of your own mass hitting you at even just high c velocities is going to blow you to smithereens, no need for any extra damage. Anything at all hitting you past c is either not interacting or imparting greater than infinite energy, no need for any extra damage.

Again, either you don't interact with the real world when doing anything adjacent to Hyperspace or the Death Star was pointless because a random TIE can blow up planets with it's dinky little laser.

The basic problem with the Sequel Trilogy is that no one in the writing group was actually bothering to think anything through, they just thought up cool ideas and made them happen while ignoring precedent, practicality, and consequence.

 

[Battlegrinder]

How a bunch of nerds on the internet can do better with lore and world building than a Hollywood writing team will always baffle me.

A bit late on this, but a part of it is undoubtedly the fact that they were working from the existing framework of the films. Sure, they stripped the setting down to just the bare skeleton of a plot and rebuilt from there, but laying out that skeleton in the first place is one of the hardest parts of writing.

 

[Bear Ribs]

Honestly they should have done the Star Forge instead of the Starkiller base or maybe in conjuction with it. It would explain how what should have been a bunch of branch dividian neo nazis with no resources were able to build in army stronger than the new republic's right under their nose in very little time. You could have it to where palpatine discovered "How to recreate a powerful weapon from the days of the Old Sith wars but." but was killed before he could use it.

One of the issues there, from their perspective, is that there's a fair chance if they used somebody else's idea they'd need to pay royalties on it. Current Disney management, in particular, has a love of grifting their creative staff of royalties (See: Alan Dean Foster, ScarJo, probably lots more) so they undoubtedly really didn't want to have to pay somebody else for an idea like that. I suspect that was actually a major reason for nuking the entire EU, get rid of all those pesky royalties.

 

[CockyVampire67]

I liked star wars visions a lot. I think they accomplished a very important thing there - finally delegated production of star wars stuff to someone else. I don't believe otherwise we would've gotten any sith content in years.

 

[LindyAF]

"Ancient Sith Superfactory" is something they could have done without it being the Star Forge or even a lot like the Star Forge, in the same way that Starkiller base is kinda like the Galaxy Gun but there probably aren't any copyright issues. The Disney Canon also kinda includes Revan already (as a Sith which is the namesake of a Final Order legion).

 

[ShadowsOfParadox]

"Ancient Sith Superfactory" is something they could have done without it being the Star Forge or even a lot like the Star Forge, in the same way that Starkiller base is kinda like the Galaxy Gun but there probably aren't any copyright issues. The Disney Canon also kinda includes Revan already (as a Sith which is the namesake of a Final Order legion).

Isn't this basically Exogol?

 

[LindyAF]

Also, Clone Troops would have made a lot more sense for the First Order to use but also for the Empire of the OT in general. Actually, wasn't it canon for a bit that Stormtroopers were Clones, just not Fett clones?

That would solve the questions of where the First Order gets its manpower rather than a janissary schema (which seems insane for an organization in the First Order's position pre TFA).

 

[LindyAF]

Isn't this basically Exogol?

Yeah, I guess? Haven't watched TRoS.

The First Order / Final Order division is super dumb, and one of the best changes Templin made in his video was combining them.

 

[BlackDragon98]

Also, Clone Troops would have made a lot more sense for the First Order to use but also for the Empire of the OT in general. Actually, wasn't it canon for a bit that Stormtroopers were Clones, just not Fett clones?

Some stormtroopers were indeed clones from different prime templates.

Empire stopped making Fett clones after the Kamino rebellion in 12 BBY.

But they kept making clones.

Though the percentage of clones was pretty low and got lower as time went on because it cost more than regular human recruits.

That would solve the questions of where the First Order gets its manpower rather than a janissary schema (which seems insane for an organization in the First Order's position pre TFA).

First Order troopers have godawful training for a bunch janissaries trained from birth.

 

[LindyAF]

Some stormtroopers were indeed clones from different prime templates.

Empire stopped making Fett clones after the Kamino rebellion in 12 BBY.

But they kept making clones.

Though the percentage of clones was pretty low and got lower as time went on because it cost more than regular human recruits.

See, I think an all-clone army would have made more sense for the Empire, thematically, because as far as I can tell we don't have many characters below the Moff level who actually like the Empire, and the Empire doesn't really even try to rule on anything other than fear. So it's army being drawn from the general population seems like it'd be an issue. Sidious doesn't appear to have any cult of personality or stuff like that going on - he's not even really seen by the public IIRC.