Police Corruption Thread.

[Free-Stater 101]

Okay everyone today I start a thread to talk about a topic I hate to discuss and yet feel we need to discuss. To start with I love the police and stand by them in most cases, but they are also human and just as fallible as the rest of us to corruption. This thread is to compile information about general corruption and talk about realistic means by which we can mend it for the betterment of the nation as a whole.

To start with I found this video on Youtube today which showcase corrupt seizure of monetary assets in collusion with a DEA agent.

 

[Abhorsen]

2 major steps forward:
Stop civil asset forfeiture (legalized theft, like in the above)
End qualified immunity in favor of something that actually makes sense. Government agents that violate rights should be held liable for doing so, not given a pass for doing it in a new, exciting way.

 

[Bacle]

2 major steps forward:
Stop civil asset forfeiture (legalized theft, like in the above)
End qualified immunity in favor of something that actually makes sense. Government agents that violate rights should be held liable for doing so, not given a pass for doing it in a new, exciting way.

Ending qualified immunity for cops, and prosecutoral immunity for DA's, would be massive steps towards rooting out a lot of the bad apples in the US justice system.

If people want to be cops and DAs, then they better know any abuse of power could see them in prison, or at minimum be a career ender.

 

[Wargamer08]

Ending qualified immunity for cops, and prosecutoral immunity for DA's, would be massive steps towards rooting out a lot of the bad apples in the US justice system.

If people want to be cops and DAs, then they better know any abuse of power could see them in prison, or at minimum be a career ender.

Far too late for that. You wouldn't have a employed cop in a city after a week. Literally hundreds of thousands of frivolous lawsuits would be posted by leftists and people looking to win the ghetto lottery. Without immunity every single suit would have to be fought, instantly bankrupting everyone involved. Just look at how pretty much anyone being arrested just screams how they can't breathe.

 

[LordsFire]

Far too late for that. You wouldn't have a employed cop in a city after a week. Literally hundreds of thousands of frivolous lawsuits would be posted by leftists and people looking to win the ghetto lottery. Without immunity every single suit would have to be fought, instantly bankrupting everyone involved. Just look at how pretty much anyone being arrested just screams how they can't breathe.

Pretty much this. Qualified Immunity should be clarified and turned into an explicit legal framework, with very careful limits.

But removing it so that every suspect who is handcuffed can sue because 'you unlawfully detained me' is the end of effective policing.

Now, removing protection for DAs and other prosecutors? That I'm much more in favor of, both because they aren't putting their lives on the line with their day-to-day work, and because they're abusing power so much these days.

 

[Bacle]

Far too late for that. You wouldn't have a employed cop in a city after a week. Literally hundreds of thousands of frivolous lawsuits would be posted by leftists and people looking to win the ghetto lottery. Without immunity every single suit would have to be fought, instantly bankrupting everyone involved. Just look at how pretty much anyone being arrested just screams how they can't breathe.

Pretty much this. Qualified Immunity should be clarified and turned into an explicit legal framework, with very careful limits.

But removing it so that every suspect who is handcuffed can sue because 'you unlawfully detained me' is the end of effective policing.

Now, removing protection for DAs and other prosecutors? That I'm much more in favor of, both because they aren't putting their lives on the line with their day-to-day work, and because they're abusing power so much these days.

Qualified immunity for cops needs to be reworked, and made for protecting the people, not cop's jobs, if it not scraped entirely.

It needs to be made so that what the limits and restrictions on police tactics and methods allow far more accountability and ability to civilly punish unruly or corrupt officers, while keeping the 'ghetto lottery' from being abused either.

For DAs, full immunity removal is the only way to unfuck the corruption in the system; nothing less will have any meaningful effect.

 

[Morphic Tide]

to civilly punish unruly or corrupt officers

No. Not the individual officers in the line of fire. It being valid to directly accuse the individual officer as the liable party is how you get law enforcement to disintegrate. The way to deal with it is the department being vulnerable and taking the cost of the valid suits, rather than individual officers having to deal with the cost personally.

Because with the way the US legal system works, it is extremely easy for the process to become the punishment.

 

[Abhorsen]

Pretty much this. Qualified Immunity should be clarified and turned into an explicit legal framework, with very careful limits.

But removing it so that every suspect who is handcuffed can sue because 'you unlawfully detained me' is the end of effective policing.

Now, removing protection for DAs and other prosecutors? That I'm much more in favor of, both because they aren't putting their lives on the line with their day-to-day work, and because they're abusing power so much these days.

Far too late for that. You wouldn't have a employed cop in a city after a week. Literally hundreds of thousands of frivolous lawsuits would be posted by leftists and people looking to win the ghetto lottery. Without immunity every single suit would have to be fought, instantly bankrupting everyone involved. Just look at how pretty much anyone being arrested just screams how they can't breathe.

The problem with qualified immunity is that it has no relation to any sort of immunity we want. It has nothing to do with good faith or reasonable behavior. Qualified immunity matters when someone's rights are violated in a way that judges haven't ruled on yet. So if you are the first person to do something obviously vile and evil, you're fine. And then frequently the judge will rule that qualified immunity bars the lawsuit and then decline to rule if what you did violated the constitution, so another cop can do the same thing in the same jurisdiction.

On top of this, even when cops are successfully sued (and note a successful suit means that you've shown the cop has violated the constitution, and a judge already warned them before hand), they still don't pay anything as the local government usually covers it, when cops absolutely should be liable for their own extreme bad behavior. Just like all government officials should be liable.

Now if you want something like "reasonable behavior works as immunity", or a maximum individual liability, fine. But some individual liability is necessary so that there is some accountability. Because internal reviews are a joke, and they never get fired, so there is really no other check on a bad cop.

 

[Zachowon]

The problem with qualified immunity is that it has no relation to any sort of immunity we want. It has nothing to do with good faith or reasonable behavior. Qualified immunity matters when someone's rights are violated in a way that judges haven't ruled on yet. So if you are the first person to do something obviously vile and evil, you're fine. And then frequently the judge will rule that qualified immunity bars the lawsuit and then decline to rule if what you did violated the constitution, so another cop can do the same thing in the same jurisdiction.

On top of this, even when cops are successfully sued (and note a successful suit means that you've shown the cop has violated the constitution, and a judge already warned them before hand), they still don't pay anything as the local government usually covers it, when cops absolutely should be liable for their own extreme bad behavior. Just like all government officials should be liable.

Now if you want something like "reasonable behavior works as immunity", or a maximum individual liability, fine. But some individual liability is necessary so that there is some accountability. Because internal reviews are a joke, and they never get fired, so there is really no other check on a bad cop.

As they have pointed out.
Sov citizens can sue because you violated thier rights.
Basically damn near everything a cop does if someone claims otherwise, it can be a suit and even if the cop wins that is all the cops money gone paying fir the legal fees, because we all know the leftist will get funding from the woke groups and the cop will either be disowned by thier department/Office/Agency and forced to pay it themselves, or the department pays for everything but docs thier pay or even fires them.

Basically quickest way to defund the police is to do this

 

[LordsFire]

The problem with qualified immunity is that it has no relation to any sort of immunity we want. It has nothing to do with good faith or reasonable behavior. Qualified immunity matters when someone's rights are violated in a way that judges haven't ruled on yet. So if you are the first person to do something obviously vile and evil, you're fine. And then frequently the judge will rule that qualified immunity bars the lawsuit and then decline to rule if what you did violated the constitution, so another cop can do the same thing in the same jurisdiction.

On top of this, even when cops are successfully sued (and note a successful suit means that you've shown the cop has violated the constitution, and a judge already warned them before hand), they still don't pay anything as the local government usually covers it, when cops absolutely should be liable for their own extreme bad behavior. Just like all government officials should be liable.

Now if you want something like "reasonable behavior works as immunity", or a maximum individual liability, fine. But some individual liability is necessary so that there is some accountability. Because internal reviews are a joke, and they never get fired, so there is really no other check on a bad cop.

Like I said, I absolutely agree that it should be reviewed and set up into a clear legal framework. A cop should know 'If I do X, I might get sued, if I do Y, I won't,' where Y is still a reasonable option for getting their job done.

The problem right now, is that if you just remove it altogether, then any cop who ever arrests a black person will be in danger of not just a lawsuit, but a lawsuit backed by the leftist political machinery. Even if the cop wins every time, their life and finances will be destroyed by the process itself.

 

[Bacle]

No. Not the individual officers in the line of fire. It being valid to directly accuse the individual officer as the liable party is how you get law enforcement to disintegrate. The way to deal with it is the department being vulnerable and taking the cost of the valid suits, rather than individual officers having to deal with the cost personally.

Because with the way the US legal system works, it is extremely easy for the process to become the punishment.

As they have pointed out.
Sov citizens can sue because you violated thier rights.
Basically damn near everything a cop does if someone claims otherwise, it can be a suit and even if the cop wins that is all the cops money gone paying fir the legal fees, because we all know the leftist will get funding from the woke groups and the cop will either be disowned by thier department/Office/Agency and forced to pay it themselves, or the department pays for everything but docs thier pay or even fires them.

Basically quickest way to defund the police is to do this

No, put it on individual officers so good cops are not facing budget cuts to cover malicious actors.

Make it so only the most righteous and trustworthy people bother to even try to become cops.

Putting in way to prevent 'ghetto lottery' situations is less important than protect the citizenry from abusive LEOs, who are already becoming Woke Enforcers and Wu Flu Gestapo.

All this goes double for DAs and their immunity.

 

[King Arts]

Instead of pointing fingers at small problems like qualified immunity the bigger problem is the legal system itself. The way common law works is trash, we should move to another model.

 

[Zachowon]

No, put it on individual officers so good cops are not facing budget cuts to cover malicious actors.

Make it so only the most righteous and trustworthy people bother to even try to become cops.

Putting in way to prevent 'ghetto lottery' situations is less important than protect the citizenry from abusive LEOs, who are already becoming Woke Enforcers and Wu Flu Gestapo.

All this goes double for DAs and their immunity.

So...say the ideal person you want to be a cop becomes one.
Arrests a black person in a major city who is resisting and everything, yelling I can't breathe, I am innocent, and is being restrained by this officer.
He is getting sued and is going to lose his pay for months, family is going to have issues etc etc.
Why would such people want to be cops at that point if they have a fear of losing thier livelihood? It is going to prevent ABYONE from being cops

 

[BlackDragon98]

As they have pointed out.
Sov citizens can sue because you violated thier rights.
Basically damn near everything a cop does if someone claims otherwise, it can be a suit and even if the cop wins that is all the cops money gone paying fir the legal fees, because we all know the leftist will get funding from the woke groups and the cop will either be disowned by thier department/Office/Agency and forced to pay it themselves, or the department pays for everything but docs thier pay or even fires them.

Basically quickest way to defund the police is to do this

Maybe we should defund the police.

After all, the Kyles are rather efficient in ridding the world of subhuman scum like pedos and wife-beaters.

And everyone could do with a tax break these days.

 

[Bacle]

So...say the ideal person you want to be a cop becomes one.
Arrests a black person in a major city who is resisting and everything, yelling I can't breathe, I am innocent, and is being restrained by this officer.
He is getting sued and is going to lose his pay for months, family is going to have issues etc etc.
Why would such people want to be cops at that point if they have a fear of losing thier livelihood? It is going to prevent ABYONE from being cops

Well there are body cams, and other ways to record police encounters.

If it was a legit arrest for valid reasons, and the cops did not violate policy or training, the cases get tossed and the people who brought the suit pay the cops legal fees.

 

[Zachowon]

Maybe we should defund the police.

After all, the Kyles are rather efficient in ridding the world of subhuman scum like pedos and wife-beaters.

And everyone could do with a tax break these days.

And we get gun fights in the streets and look like Chicago on steroids.
No thank you.

Well there are body cams, and other ways to record police encounters.

If it was a legit arrest for valid reasons, and the cops did not violate policy or training, the cases get tossed and the people who brought the suit pay the cops legal fees.

Oh? You think that will stop them? The cop would still have to hire his own lawyers to counter it, and that is before it ever sees a judge. It may get dropped later, but after hours and money spent.

What precedence would they have to pay the cops legal fees?

 

[Cherico]

civil fortuture causes the vast majority of issues with american police getting rid of that is most likely going to help the most.

On the subject of qualified immunity, prosicutors are honestly a much bigger problem on that end with several cases of prosicutors falsifying evidence, and committing other crimes against peoples rights on the regular. Their the biggest problem not the police.

 

[Bacle]

And we get gun fights in the streets and look like Chicago on steroids.
No thank you.

Oh? You think that will stop them? The cop would still have to hire his own lawyers to counter it, and that is before it ever sees a judge. It may get dropped later, but after hours and money spent.

What precedence would they have to pay the cops legal fees?

That's the price for the power over life and death that people get as cops.

The Thin Blue Line lost its support on the Right when they went along with the Wu Flu facism to protect their paychecks, never mind people still remember things like Ruby Ridge and Waco or the Rodney King beating.

As for precedent, in a lot of civil cases, if the suite was brought in bad faith the judge can order the party that brought the suite to pay the legal fees of the people they were attempting to sue.

 

[LordsFire]

Instead of pointing fingers at small problems like qualified immunity the bigger problem is the legal system itself. The way common law works is trash, we should move to another model.

What better model do you have for people to try switching to?

 

[Zachowon]

That's the price for the power over life and death that people get as cops.

The Thin Blue Line lost its support on the Right when they went along with the Wu Flu facism to protect their paychecks, never mind people still remember things like Ruby Ridge and Waco or the Rodney King beating.

As for precedent, in a lot of civil cases, if the suite was brought in bad faith the judge can order the party that brought the suite to pay the legal fees of the people they were attempting to sue.

So have less and less cops as they are targeted by civil suites heavily, people not wanting to deal eith all of this stuff. Bad cops get in and don't wear body cams because they don't wanna suffer so more bad cops come in.

You need to make a better argument....

Alright, that hasn't stopped cases that should be dropped not getting dropped. Political reasons come into play especially if someone arrested a black man.

You are basically asking for white people to be heavily arrested and black people to be let loose because the officer would not get sued by the white people while even I they follow the book they get sued by the black person.