Philosophical-Social Discussion over Pornographic Materials

Sounds like that's just a superstition of yours.
"Creating a government regulatory body capable of meaningfully enforcing a law against what amounts to the transfer of information physically or electronically isnt an invitation to tyranny"
A porn ban would be broadly unenforceable or require the largest and most powerful government agency ever conceived. You'd be trying to restrict the transfer of something that can be created by lone individuals and exchanged 100% electronically.
 
"Creating a government regulatory body capable of meaningfully enforcing a law against what amounts to the transfer of information physically or electronically isnt an invitation to tyranny"
A porn ban would be broadly unenforceable or require the largest and most powerful government agency ever conceived. You'd be trying to restrict the transfer of something that can be created by lone individuals and exchanged 100% electronically.
I don't really believe that. It's not like I'm going to have the police invade people's homes and look for what lemon fanfics they wrote on their computers. I'd just have them use hackers to crash the biggest porn websites. That simple.
 
I don't really believe that. It's not like I'm going to have the police invade people's homes and look for what lemon fanfics they wrote on their computers. I'd just have them use hackers to crash the biggest porn websites. That simple.
Thats a very childish idea.
So, in other words, you're interested in doing essentially nothing to reduce porn consumption. That would be the "Unenforceable" part of my "Unenforceable or tyranny" statement.
 
Thats a very childish idea.
So, in other words, you're interested in doing essentially nothing to reduce porn consumption. That would be the "Unenforceable" part of my "Unenforceable or tyranny" statement.
So shutting down all the major porn websites would have no effect on porn consumption? None at all?
 
Nope. They'd just set up new sites, use the stuff people already have on their computers, make more stuff, and keep right on going. You'd inconvenience some people for a few days and that's about it.
 
So shutting down all the major porn websites would have no effect on porn consumption? None at all?
Not a meaningful one, no (thank you for the goalpost shift there, but I think we're doing fine with what I actually said). Most porn, a ridiculous amount, is downloaded, then exchanged via sites, not just accessed via sites like a youtube video.
 
Not a meaningful one, no (thank you for the goalpost shift there, but I think we're doing fine with what I actually said). Most porn, a ridiculous amount, is downloaded, then exchanged via sites, not just accessed via sites like a youtube video.
Alright then, what is your solution to the problem of pornography?
 
Well that depends on what you mean by solution.
The political problem of pornography is that it undermines the general sexual morality of the public, making them irreligious, unable to hold a steady relationship, and docile. It also makes people stupider by destroying their brains in a manner similar to hard drugs. If we take these problems and extrapolate them to the majority of society, then, given the increased acceptability of porn, we can expect to see the complete collapse of civilization.
 
To those arguing in favor and saying porn should not just be legalized but remain wholly socially destigmatized, I want to make something clear. That argument is in favor for removing christian values from society as a whole. The bible is abundantly clear on this topic.

27 “You have heard that it was said, ‘You shall not commit adultery.’[a] 28 But I tell you that anyone who looks at a woman lustfully has already committed adultery with her in his heart.

@Bacle @Terthna @Captain X
If you truly argue for and want porn to be totally socially destigmatized, you ask for no one to follow and believe in the above verse. You therefore ask for no Christianity in any part of society, or at the least, a neutered Christianity that totally ignores and disregards whatever you want in the bible ala Mayor Pete's except when you want to brow beat people on paying more taxes and having open borders. Is that what you want from society, to kill a pillar of Western Civilization and replace it with a pillar of Hedonism?
 
I thought I already outed myself an atheist and a secularist. I don't hate Christians or Christianity per say, but I don't want religion to be legislated, which is why I've verbally slapped down The Name of Love so hard in these threads. So I'd say your argument is pretty disingenuous. It amounts to saying that if I don't let Christians have their way on everything, that I don't want their to be Christians. If you want to feel guilty about looking at porn, or even admiring anyone for their looks (you really could take that passage that way), knock yourself out - that's your religion, and you can do whatever you want so long as it doesn't harm anyone else as far as I'm concerned. But don't expect anyone else who isn't a Christian to go along with it.
 
I thought I already outed myself an atheist and a secularist. I don't hate Christians or Christianity per say, but I don't want religion to be legislated, which is why I've verbally slapped down The Name of Love so hard in these threads. So I'd say your argument is pretty disingenuous. It amounts to saying that if I don't let Christians have their way on everything, that I don't want their to be Christians. If you want to feel guilty about looking at porn, or even admiring anyone for their looks (you really could take that passage that way),
It is and I do and every Christian should because that's abundantly clear that it is simply looking at a woman with lust, wanting to engage in sexual acts with her.

knock yourself out - that's your religion, and you can do whatever you want so long as it doesn't harm anyone else as far as I'm concerned. But don't expect anyone else who isn't a Christian to go along with it.
I'm not arguing for religion to be legislated. You argued against stigmatization of porn. It's not disingenuous because it is around social stigma, not law. So what I want to know is do you want zero social stigma around pornography, and subsequently a complete destruction of genuine Christian values in society, or are you alright with social stigma existing?
 
It is and I do and every Christian should because that's abundantly clear that it is simply looking at a woman with lust, wanting to engage in sexual acts with her.
Part of me pities you.

I'm not arguing for religion to be legislated. You argued against stigmatization of porn.
In order to make that possible, it'd have to be legislated, particularly for the reasoning that you're using. Remember, you're the one who went from trying to argue science (however flawed as those studies might be as they have obvious agendas) to pulling out the Bible.

It's not disingenuous because it is around social stigma, not law. So what I want to know is do you want zero social stigma around pornography, and subsequently a complete destruction of genuine Christian values in society, or are you alright with social stigma existing?
I'm alright with social stigma existing among Christians. ;) I find it to be rather silly, and an example of how Christians tend to selectively follow what's in their holy book, but if your religion wants to stigmatize porn among its followers (just like certain other religions and pork), I'm cool with that. I'd be even cooler with it if you'd keep it strictly among members of your religion, but that's as much of a pipe dream as thinking what you and The Name of Love are proposing is possible without an oppressive authoritarian theocratic government.
 
Part of me pities you.
Why's that? Why have pity for someone who is trying to follow the faith that has been a central part of western culture for 2000 years?

In order to make that possible, it'd have to be legislated, particularly for the reasoning that you're using. Remember, you're the one who went from trying to argue science (however flawed as those studies might be as they have obvious agendas) to pulling out the Bible.
Purely to point out that stigmatization of porn is among the clearest christian doctrines there is. And they aren't nearly as flawed or obvious as the "Porn is great for society!" Studies as I have been pointing out with stigmatization, which no, does not mean it cant have any root in the inherent.

I'm alright with social stigma existing among Christians. ;) I find it to be rather silly, and an example of how Christians tend to selectively follow what's in their holy book,
How is it an example of selectivity? Not stigmitazing would be blatantly selective. Following it is the opposite of that.

but if your religion wants to stigmatize porn among its followers (just like certain other religions and pork), I'm cool with that. I'd be even cooler with it if you'd keep it strictly among members of your religion, but that's as much of a pipe dream as thinking what you and The Name of Love are proposing is possible without an oppressive authoritarian theocratic government.
I have not proposed anything of the sort. Please actually follow and acknowledge my arguments here. Why should we keep it strictly among members of our religion though? Why can't we just say "I believe porn is not healthy or good for you. I don't think it's good to watch it and if your spouse doesn't like you watching it, that isn't a problem with her but with your own behavior." You are asking right now that I never share my faith or opinions with anyone ever.
 


Double posting but its relevant to thread.

Has some pretty relevant information, like psychology today's bias towards porn as good when one of the cited examples of a positive is that you become less religious. If that's not bias I don't know what is.
 
Why's that? Why have pity for someone who is trying to follow the faith that has been a central part of western culture for 2000 years?
Because making people ashamed of a natural aspect of themselves is pitiable, because it's not really something you can rid yourself of.

Purely to point out that stigmatization of porn is among the clearest christian doctrines there is. And they aren't nearly as flawed or obvious as the "Porn is great for society!" Studies as I have been pointing out with stigmatization, which no, does not mean it cant have any root in the inherent.
All your studies have been based in a biased viewpoint, and this has been pointed out by others. You pulled out the Bible for what amounted to an argument that not enforcing an aspect of Christianity on the country as a whole somehow amounts to not wanting Christians to exist in the country.

How is it an example of selectivity? Not stigmitazing would be blatantly selective. Following it is the opposite of that.
The selectivity comes from choosing to follow some parts of the Bible, but not others. Like say the part about not eating pigs, or the part that says you shouldn't wear clothing made of more than one kind of fiber. Just as a couple of examples.

I have not proposed anything of the sort. Please actually follow and acknowledge my arguments here.
I am. I am only responding to what you have said.

Why should we keep it strictly among members of our religion though?
Because as you yourself have shown, this is coming from your religion.

Why can't we just say "I believe porn is not healthy or good for you. I don't think it's good to watch it and if your spouse doesn't like you watching it, that isn't a problem with her but with your own behavior." You are asking right now that I never share my faith or opinions with anyone ever.
No, I'm asking that you not expect others to share in aspects of your religion when they are not members of your religion. You can share your opinions all you want, like everyone else, but that doesn't mean anyone has to take any kind of action based on them. Also, other people are entitles to share their opinions on your opinions. Free speech - it's fantastic. ;)
 
@FriedCFour I believe you are starting to see why I don’t bother talking to them. They don’t actually think porn is a problem, but they didn’t come out and say that. They instead started calling me names.
 
Because making people ashamed of a natural aspect of themselves is pitiable, because it's not really something you can rid yourself of.
Yeah that's what literally all sin is. It's something you can't get rid of, that you acknowledge you can never lose, that gives you conversely an ideal to strive for while at the same time realizing that you can never truly be a perfect human being, and that even as you fail you remain loved by God. It's done wonders in giving me a more fulfilling and happy life than hedonistic debauchery, which is momentary intense pleasures followed up by lifelong mistakes and regrets. I don't think it is fair to your wife or husband who you are committed to to want to or to have sex with someone else. The first step to avoiding cheating is to keep in mind that you shouldn't look at others lustfully, and even if you do, that it is not something you should do. I don't flagellate myself when I do, anymore than when I fail in having love towards every human being alive and that I meet. On a less religous note, ignoring base short term instincts and desires in pursuit of a longterm ideal or goal is what separates us from animals and builds civilization.

All your studies have been based in a biased viewpoint, and this has been pointed out by others. You pulled out the Bible for what amounted to an argument that not enforcing an aspect of Christianity on the country as a whole somehow amounts to not wanting Christians to exist in the country.
And if you argue that the porn is good studies are wholly unbiased I got a bridge to sell you. I have not argued for enforcement at all. My argument is purely against the SOCIAL STIGMA aspect, and the argument that it should not exist. It necessarily follows then that you want no one to adhere to this core christian value, and therefore want it expunged from society.

The selectivity comes from choosing to follow some parts of the Bible, but not others. Like say the part about not eating pigs, or the part that says you shouldn't wear clothing made of more than one kind
14 I am convinced, being fully persuaded in the Lord Jesus, that nothing is unclean in itself. But if anyone regards something as unclean, then for that person it is unclean. 15 If your brother or sister is distressed because of what you eat, you are no longer acting in love. Do not by your eating destroy someone for whom Christ died.
Bible is pretty clear there too. Food is not inherently unclean, but if you believe a food to be unclean then it is. Basically, I can totally eat pigs just fine while adhering to the bible, so long as I am not going up to a vegetarian and eating a ham sandwich to spite them and their beliefs. because I study it's word, not just look for gatcha questions to say checkmate christians. Same would apply to linens and clothing. Note though that the term there is clean and unclean, not sin, which is different. So please skip the next checkmate of "so porn is fine then because I consider it to be clean". That isn't what is being talked about here, otherwise he would have said "if anything one regards something as sin, then it is sin." Not what is clean.


I am. I am only responding to what you have said.
You aren't, because I never said I supported a porn ban.

Because as you yourself have shown, this is coming from your religion.
That and studies around it and personal experience with it and its destructive effects on sexual wellbeing.

@FriedCFour I believe you are starting to see why I don’t bother talking to them. They don’t actually think porn is a problem, but they didn’t come out and say that. They instead started calling me names.
They did. They said it's a good thing and shouldn't be socially stigmatized. You are jumping a point here with your arguments. If you want to convince someone it should be illegal, argue and focus first that it is a bad thing. You need to share that common ground and axiom to argue for a ban in the first place, because people will dismiss you outright if you want to argue for banning something they consider a social good. Argue why porn is negative first with them. Only with people like me who agree with you it's not a good thing you can then argue with on legality.
 
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They did. They said it's a good thing and shouldn't be socially stigmatized. You are jumping a point here with your arguments. If you want to convince someone it should be illegal, argue and focus first that it is a bad thing. You need to share that common ground and axiom to argue for a ban in the first place, because people will dismiss you outright if you want to argue for banning something they consider a social good. Argue why porn is negative first with them. Only with people like me who agree with you it's not a good thing you can then argue with on legality.
I’ll keep that in mind next time. Thank you for your advice.
 

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