Middle East Palestine has been Deplatformed from the Earth, the Google Earth

[Deleted member 88]

I mean...let's imagine a Neo Nazi dream scenario, Israel and the Jews are exterminated, and all the Arabs/Blacks/Turks in Europe are rounded up and killed.

I would expect this Fourth Reich/Western Imperium of Aryans to...not let the Arabs run the middle east, but rather aggressively conquer the region and exterminate the savage Saracens. Colonizing Egypt, North Africa, and the Levant, as well as the other parts of the former muslim world-and replace the inhabitants with whites.

I find it hard to believe Hitler and Mussolini would not have adopted a similar policy in the long run-Hitler IIRC referred to Arabs as "monkeys" so it was a tactical alliance.

So in summary, I find it perplexing Neo Nazis and WNs would support the cause of Arabs before say, they prevailed in Europe.

 

[Marduk]

To give a political aside, I can understand why European ethnonationalists and neo Nazis would be critical of Israel, (as well as white nationalists)-the Jew is the principal enemy in this area of politics after all, though for the life of me I can’t understand why they’d be sympathetic to the Palestinians. Arabs who are by no definition white or European.

Because this crowd is downright obsessed to a ridiculous degree. They exaggerate any disagreement, tension or conflict with any Jews over anything, no matter of petty, to total war proportions, while going out of their way to make any other conflicts or contentions with anyone else appear as either totally related to Jews or at least less important than the conflict with them.

You can't literaly act like a fucking tumour and then cry foul when people call you a cancer.

'Oh they were brave when absorbing another nation' get bent. Israel is reprehensible. If it is 'anti semitic' to oppose the slow grinding down of one nation by a festering woumd within it, then sure, fuck the jews. It's become impossible - clearly - to seperate the jewish state with people who are jewish when it comes to this topic. Their annexation of the land is because they are jewish;

What nation is being ground down? Did Arabs suddenly lose all their countries somehow and the Palestinian Autonomy is their last refuge in the world?

Where are the Jews supposed to have their nation-state if not the geographical area containing such conspicious locations as Jerusalem, Judea and most of their religion's ancient holy sites? Its like asking if the French have a right to claim a nation state around Paris, or if the Greeks have a right to do the same around Athens.
Of course changes of sovereignty over land with forcible population exchanges are necessarily an unpleasant affair to at minimum some degree by definition, but that's not exactly new, exceptional, or happening for no reason at all.

no different to china wanting to claim Taiwan. 'Historically it was ours, so what's the issue?'

I'm sure that if one day China stopped being communist and became a western style democracy, Taiwan would have no problem joining it. Its a purely ideological split.
In case of Israel-Palestine, it runs much deeper than mere ideology of governance. Its a cultural, religious, ethnic, even civilizational split.

 

[Lanmandragon]

So you are admitting that you are doing this out of animosity for a certain group? How does this help the point you are trying to make at all?




You aren't helping your point, don't make it about Judaism...

Let me correct you, "it is fine when insert nation that I favor does it". There, now it is a universal, and doesn't have negative associations and isn't potentially anti-Semitic, remember there is a variety of positions on Israel within the Jewish community and it is not fair to paint all of one group with the same brush. And can also apply to the supporters of Palestine or any other nation. Though that is just my opinion, honestly I think you are shooting yourself in the foot, though perhaps you cannot help. I am trying not to assume any sort of bias on your part, but you are giving me cause to assume.



Actually, the Palestinians are related to the Israeli population,

https://www.haaretz.com/science-and-health/palestinians-and-jews-share-genetic-roots-1.5411201

So that is incorrect, and given that they are related to the Israelis means that they are from the same stock that has lived here for thousands of years. What that means, I'll leave to you, you can interpret this however you want.

And really, most Arabs aren't actual Arabs, just a mish-mash of groups that have been assimilated.



I agree, a lot of people dislike Israel for its actions. And I am saying this as someone who has issues with both Israel and Palestine. And of course there is an anti-semitism issue to one degree or another. And I would wager that they are. And the whole demographic issue is a tragedy, I wonder if it might even end up a double tragedy, destroying two peoples in one blow. The Palestinians overcome the Israelis only to be struck down by their own overgrowth.

I mean yeah the Arabs are descendantsfrom Ishmael. The fact still remains they've waged several wars of genocide. They lost rights to the land when they started crap and lost.

 

[Witteric of the West]

I mean yeah the Arabs are descendantsfrom Ishmael. The fact still remains they've waged several wars of genocide. They lost rights to the land when they started crap and lost.

Even that much is dubious and depends partly on reading the Qur'an and taking at face value that Agar and Ishmael made a long trek from the Levant down the Red Sea coast of Arabia... Even when, IIRC most of the mentioned geography belongs to modern day Israel and Jordan. Might be wrong, but still...

As for the "Palestinian Nation" (Concept which did not come into being before the Egyptian and Jordanian troops were pushed out of the West Bank and Gaza, point at which it started to become clear that a military victory against the Israelis was a long shot) being ground down by "a festering wound"...
1. Who is it that is not letting the Palestinian Refugees do anything other than languish in refugee camps and tells them to blame it on the jews?
2. Who has consistently rejected out of hand any possible partition plan?

 

[Deleted member 88]

The Ishmaelites in Bible times were technically Arabs in the north of Arabia tho, not in the south. The Arabs of Muhummad's day were related to them...probably but distantly at best.

 

[Arlos]

I don’t usually speak much here, since it’s about american matter most of the time and I don’t want to get involved in debate I am not necessarily knowledgeable or culturally sensitive enough to properly grasp.

But on the matter of Israel, the only thing I have to say is that the Zionist shouldn’t have half-assed things.
Either you build your country, scatter the Palestinian amongst the surrounding Arabs nations to be eventually integrated and say fuck you to your unhappy neighbors, or you don’t build a country at all.
The situation right now is stupid and absolutely terrible, it has created so much pain, killed so many and created so much misery, that we are far past the point where ripping the band-aid early on would have been more costly for all involved than the decades of conflict.
Otherwise, I quite respect Israel for managing to accomplish what it did, would it that my countrymen have half their will to defend their nations. *sigh*

 

[Valiran]

From what I know of the situation, the entire Israel/Palestine conflict is horrible and a clusterfuck on every conceivable level. Israel has done horrible shit to the Palestinians, and enough Palestinians have no intention of coexisting and continually deal in bad faith that Israel's actions can at times appear downright reasonable.

I genuinely don't know what to believe anymore, and that is profoundly upsetting to me.

 

[LordSunhawk]

Official Notice from the Boot. The eyes (and laces) of the Boot are Upon This Thread. Please do not require the Boot to put my SOLE Upon This Thread as well. We have civility rules for a reason, so that even contentious topics can be argued in good faith. Follow them, or feel the tread of the Boot upon your neck. (terrible metaphor, the Boot knows this, but the Boot is trying to cram in all the Boot jokes)

 

[Deleted member]

Why? I am biased. Zionism is a power structure and that power structure impacts my life in negative ways. But I dont want to create problems for this forum, so i wont be discussing it beyond this.

And no, I dont want to harm Jews.

You can't literaly act like a fucking tumour and then cry foul when people call you a cancer.

'Oh they were brave when absorbing another nation' get bent. Israel is reprehensible. If it is 'anti semitic' to oppose the slow grinding down of one nation by a festering woumd within it, then sure, fuck the jews. It's become impossible - clearly - to seperate the jewish state with people who are jewish when it comes to this topic. Their annexation of the land is because they are jewish; no different to china wanting to claim Taiwan. 'Historically it was ours, so what's the issue?'

And regarding the 'oh well there are differences within israel' that also doesn't matter. No group is led by the majority that wring their hands and do nothing; having division doesn't mean shit when the process is continuing.

As far as demographics go they probably do have a tikebomb on their hands. Can't wait for the justifications for gelding the palestinians to come down the pipeline while the 'divided groups' wring hands and complain while it still fucking happens.

Your bigotry is showing through on this matter. Let's be clear here -- Jews were hated in the pre-20th century era for being rootless cosmopolitans who degenerated the culture around them with their obsessive interest in wealth and unrestrained capitalist ways and lack of interest in the prosperity of the surrounding country.

The solution for this -- was Zionism. Theodor Herzl developed the concept because he wanted his people to be a healthy, normal, nationalistic nation (It's important to note for historical analysis that Herzl believed what I wrote in the first paragraph about the Jewish people).

He succeeded.

Israel has problems, but actually the least problems of any of the culturally western countries. Zionism is NOT the problem. Israel is NOT the problem. Israel acts mostly the same way that a lot of people here want their nations to act.

So what's left with condemning Zionism when it was actually the solution (and a very successful one) to the "problem" you allude to? I am afraid, gentlemen, that is bigotry.

 

[Husky_Khan]

As far as demographics go they probably do have a tikebomb on their hands. Can't wait for the justifications for gelding the palestinians to come down the pipeline while the 'divided groups' wring hands and complain while it still fucking happens.

First off... tikebomb?

Secondly, for being an "ethnostate" they're more diverse then many non-ethnostates and they've done so without gelding the Palestinians. Even the Parliament and other instruments of government have large minorities of Arabs operating within them despite them being an overall Jewish state. Which is important again, unlike many of their Arab or non-Jewish neighbors, non-Jews here have more political rights (especially if they were minorities) then they would in many ethnically or Muslim majority neighboring countries.

And if there was a ticking tikebomb (again wtf seriously?) the Jewish Homeland is about a single percentage point as large as teh surrounding Muslim world. If people don't want to live in a Jewish Democracy, they can always pick up and move and hope their far more sympathetic neighbors will treat them far better then Israel has (by keeping them in multigenerational refugee camps).

 

[Shipmaster Sane]

Remember. It's fine when theJews do it.

To muslims.

 

[Hlaalu Agent]

I mean yeah the Arabs are descendantsfrom Ishmael. The fact still remains they've waged several wars of genocide. They lost rights to the land when they started crap and lost.

No they are literally just the same people who lived in the region who adopted Arabic culture due to being ruled over by Arabic invaders.

And I can contest your claim they started it,

Deir Yassin massacre - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Here is an example. I'd say it is more complicated than any party starting it, and that both parties share blame for the conflict. I can probably dig up a whole timeline of actions and counter-actions.

 

[LordSunhawk]

I will see your Deir Yassin and raise you with the 1929 Hebron Massacre.

However, I'd also point out that years before that there was an abortive anti-Jewish pogram that fizzled out when the actual native Palestinians (the real ones, who had been on the land for hundreds of years) pretty much ignored the shrieks from the Effendis of Egypt and Syria to steal back the land the effendis had sold to the Zionist settlers as 'useless' and which was now very profitable. Worse, as far as the effendis were concerned, the local villagers were getting terrible ideas like 'democracy' and 'due process' and 'private property ownership' and shockingly enough 'liberty'.

So between 1920 and 1929 the effendis emptied out the prisons throughout Egypt and Syria and shipped the former inmates to Palestine, massacred the local villagers in a series of small scale riots carried out with the complicity of the British, and then in 1929 there was the Hebron Massacre.

Most 'Palestinians' today are descendants not of the actual long-term residents of the Holy Land, but are descended from these convicts and thugs. Those who *are* descendants of the actual Palestinians tend to not only live in Israel itself but also tend to be quite loyal to the Israeli state.

 

[Hlaalu Agent]

I will see your Deir Yassin and raise you with the 1929 Hebron Massacre.

However, I'd also point out that years before that there was an abortive anti-Jewish pogram that fizzled out when the actual native Palestinians (the real ones, who had been on the land for hundreds of years) pretty much ignored the shrieks from the Effendis of Egypt and Syria to steal back the land the effendis had sold to the Zionist settlers as 'useless' and which was now very profitable. Worse, as far as the effendis were concerned, the local villagers were getting terrible ideas like 'democracy' and 'due process' and 'private property ownership' and shockingly enough 'liberty'.

So between 1920 and 1929 the effendis emptied out the prisons throughout Egypt and Syria and shipped the former inmates to Palestine, massacred the local villagers in a series of small scale riots carried out with the complicity of the British, and then in 1929 there was the Hebron Massacre.

Most 'Palestinians' today are descendants not of the actual long-term residents of the Holy Land, but are descended from these convicts and thugs. Those who *are* descendants of the actual Palestinians tend to not only live in Israel itself but also tend to be quite loyal to the Israeli state.

It isn't a raise, given that they are different animals. Though reading it implies that there was a lot of underlying tension already there, and someone was poking the bear so to speak, with the intent of getting it to maul someone innocent.

To clarify, I mean it is difficult to compare them given their different nature, and I don't want to split hairs when it comes to mass murder and genocide so I am not going to try to argue beyond not thinking it is a raise.

And can you actually cite this? Because it sounds rather out there.

To muslims.

And what would make this morally permissible?

 

[GoldRanger]

The situation right now is stupid and absolutely terrible, it has created so much pain, killed so many and created so much misery, that we are far past the point where ripping the band-aid early on would have been more costly for all involved than the decades of conflict.

More like the situation has been exaggerated by so many, created so much political gain for the corrupt, generated ideological fuel for the usual suspects. Not much beyond that. All these "so many deaths" you're crowing about are around 40,000 in 70+ years, that's like a quiet year in Syria these days. The poor Palestinians in Gaza (the Palestinian territory that has it worse by far than the other one) are so impoverished and suffering that they are among the most obese people in the world.

This conflict, objectively speaking, is a complete nothingburger. The only reason anyone remembers the Six Day War much more than the Turkish invasion of Cyprus, or the Intifadas much more than the Tamil insurgencies in Sri Lanka, is because Jews are involved, and when a Jew dares to stand up for himself he's a bad guy because he no longer fits the convenient mold of the quiet bespectacled banker that's not looking for any trouble, no sir (Well, that and Arab control of the UN and until recently, global oil trade). Well, fuck that expectation, Israel is here to stay, and if anyone has issues with that they can talk to the IDF.

 

[Bigking321]

Also please keep in mind that many Palestinians were taken in by jordan and given Jordanian citizenship after the failed war of genocide.

Please look up Black September for the reason all the countries around Israel absolutely refuse to take them.

Also many were Jordanian citizens last. Why does everyone insist on making them Israels problem to deal with?

 

[PsihoKekec]

Afterall, West Bank and Gaza were never independent, they were annexed by Jordan and Egypt in 1948. Though neither would want to touch these areas with six mile poles today.

 

[Arch Dornan]

Is it done? You know the beginning of the end of this conflict?

 

[PsihoKekec]

You can't start the begining of the end of the neverending story.

 

[Doomsought]

Is it done? You know the beginning of the end of this conflict?

Only when Egypt opens their borders to the Gaza strip.