Old Republic vs Imperium of Man (politics and organization)

@King Arts
We know that the IoM wants to be that centralized. However, in reality, it's anything but. The vagaries of the warp and travel times require that each system polity be able to exercise executive control, and they do. The illusion of central control stems from the agents of the central authority exercising their authority in whatever manner they deem necessary.

So you really end up getting thousands of little satellite states that really owe their destiny to whomever is in local control. Sometimes those reps obey the orders they get from Terra, sometimes they re-interpret them for their own ends, once in a while they ignore them (or are forced to b/c of warp storms), and every so often they just raise the middle finger towards Terra.
 
@King Arts
We know that the IoM wants to be that centralized. However, in reality, it's anything but. The vagaries of the warp and travel times require that each system polity be able to exercise executive control, and they do. The illusion of central control stems from the agents of the central authority exercising their authority in whatever manner they deem necessary.

So you really end up getting thousands of little satellite states that really owe their destiny to whomever is in local control. Sometimes those reps obey the orders they get from Terra, sometimes they re-interpret them for their own ends, once in a while they ignore them (or are forced to b/c of warp storms), and every so often they just raise the middle finger towards Terra.
I think you are mixing up warhammer fantasy empire with 40k in fantasy yes elector counts can tell the emperor to fuck off if they are strong enough. In 40k no way will any governor insult the administration or the admech. You might be confusing separation of powers which the Imperium does have with decentralization and local control/freedom/power.
 
I'm not confusing anything. In 40K, there's no instantaneous comms, and the warp is fickle at best. Isolation for months and even years at a time is NOT uncommon. Decades and centuries have gone by without planets seeing ANY Imperial visitation.

The Gov or Administrator doesn't need to tell Emps to f-off. He just does his own thing for his own betterment. Pretty much like all the Lords of Terra. He just gets to do it without the Imperial Apparatus looking right over his shoulder.

You're ascribing WAY too much oversight to a body which is chronically incapable of said oversight.

Sure, an Inquisitor, Adeptus whatever, or Senior Administratum official can come in and has carte blanche when they onsite...pending review by higher authority of course (for whatever that's worth). That is a very uncommon visit unless you're on a lynchpin world, in which case you've probably got those agents, in some form, already on your planet and jogging your elbow.
 
I'm not confusing anything. In 40K, there's no instantaneous comms, and the warp is fickle at best. Isolation for months and even years at a time is NOT uncommon. Decades and centuries have gone by without planets seeing ANY Imperial visitation.

The Gov or Administrator doesn't need to tell Emps to f-off. He just does his own thing for his own betterment. Pretty much like all the Lords of Terra. He just gets to do it without the Imperial Apparatus looking right over his shoulder.

You're ascribing WAY too much oversight to a body which is chronically incapable of said oversight.

Sure, an Inquisitor, Adeptus whatever, or Senior Administratum official can come in and has carte blanche when they onsite...pending review by higher authority of course (for whatever that's worth). That is a very uncommon visit unless you're on a lynchpin world, in which case you've probably got those agents, in some form, already on your planet and jogging your elbow.
No, in the Imperium things might not be centralized as much as they'd like, but they are standardized to a such an extent that it compensates. Note that they have classifications for worlds based on their economy, and every world really operates the same way: there's a governor (never elected), PDF, Adeptus Arbites, Imperial Creed, etc. Basically everything works the same way, and rigidly controlled. There's very little freedom, individuality, ability to prosper, etc. It's a shit way to live.
 
No, in the Imperium things might not be centralized as much as they'd like, but they are standardized to a such an extent that it compensates. Note that they have classifications for worlds based on their economy, and every world really operates the same way: there's a governor (never elected), PDF, Adeptus Arbites, Imperial Creed, etc. Basically everything works the same way, and rigidly controlled. There's very little freedom, individuality, ability to prosper, etc. It's a shit way to live.
That was the goal of their standardization, but it has pretty much failed except in a couple areas. Worship the Emperor, check. Tithe, check. EVERYTHING else is negotiable, and is negotiated.
 
No, in the Imperium things might not be centralized as much as they'd like, but they are standardized to a such an extent that it compensates. Note that they have classifications for worlds based on their economy, and every world really operates the same way: there's a governor (never elected), PDF, Adeptus Arbites, Imperial Creed, etc. Basically everything works the same way, and rigidly controlled. There's very little freedom, individuality, ability to prosper, etc. It's a shit way to live.

Every world operates the same way in there is a governor, a PDF, and some form of the creed, yes. But there's massive variation within those those things.

Planetary governors are usually hereditary or appointed, but not always, some are elected.
There is always a PDF, but that could mean anything from "professional military on par with a mainline cadian force" to some knights or horseback.
Ditto for the Creed, there's considerable variety within what's accepted under its banner.
 
I’m sorry I have to correct you. The Imperium has almost no similarities to the Holy Roman Empire it is too centralized the Imperial guard, Administrative, the church and Admech are all central organizations they are not local they all can dominate planetary governors. The imperium is closer to Ancient Rome or Byzantium, or even the Nazis or the communists than it having similarities to the HRE.

No, it is not. What you wrote may be like it in theory, but in reality Imperium doesn't and cannot really care much beyond the planets providing resources necessary for functioning of the Imperial administration and military.

Also, Holy Roman Empire also had central organizations. It had a "central army" - in fact, it had TWO central armies, the Imperial Army and the Army of the Empire. But even these forces were in fact decentralized in their structure, much like Adeptus Astartes and the Imperial Guard are.

And yes, Imperium would be able to dominate individual planet. But again, much like HRE, realities of the communications and message and army travel times mean that centralized control is impossible. And it is not much like Roman or Byzantine Empire either: I don't think either would have tolerated a territory such as Ultramar existing within it.

No, in the Imperium things might not be centralized as much as they'd like, but they are standardized to a such an extent that it compensates. Note that they have classifications for worlds based on their economy, and every world really operates the same way: there's a governor (never elected), PDF, Adeptus Arbites, Imperial Creed, etc. Basically everything works the same way, and rigidly controlled. There's very little freedom, individuality, ability to prosper, etc. It's a shit way to live.

I have already explained that before, but since apparently nobody has read that explanation... no, there is no standardization of worlds within the Imperium. What there IS, however, is categorization. That is, Imperium takes a look at characteristics of a certain world, and then classifies it according to its internal system. And yes, worlds will develop in certain directions over time. But there is no case where Imperium itself decides to actively remodel a world so as to make it fit a certain category. Closest to that are Forge Worlds, but this is merely term for worlds controlled and developed by the Adeptus Mechanicus - which is, in essence, a political entity that is in federal relationship with the Imperium, rather than being part of Imperium in the way that, say, NASA is part of United States administration.

Also, everything you have listed are, again, administrative categories. Yes, there is a governor - but governor's duty is merely to ensure the world fulfills its obligations towards the Imperium at large. Other than that, governor doesn't care or can control how the world governs itself. Also, governors can be appointed, hereditary or elected, so even in that there is a significant variation. Yes, there are Planetary Defense Forces - but beyond the common moniker, they have absolutely nothing in common, and each world is left to develop its own PDF in ways that fulfill said world's requirements. Hell, even Imperial Guard Regiments differ from world to world (just compare regiments from Cadia, Krieg, Catachan and Praetoria), let alone PDF. Adeptus Arbites do not enforce laws: they merely punish serious transgressions against Imperium (e.g. rebellion) but each world has its own laws, customs, judicial procedure and so on, none of which Arbites have anything to do with. Imperial Creed is religion - that is like saying that Western Europe was a homogenous authoritharian empire during Middle Ages because it was 99% Catholic. And Imperial Creed itself is far more diverse than medieval Catholicism would have been willing to tolerate.

If you want to claim that "Basically everything works the same way, and rigidly controlled. There's very little freedom, individuality, ability to prosper, etc", you will need to do a lot more to prove that claim.
 

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