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Nazis and Homosexuality

ATP

Well-known member
:rolleyes:
Did you know Stalin's regime declared homosexuality a sign of fascism, the same way Hitler's claimed it was caused by socialism?

Because murderers who want to tell other people how to live their lives are pretty much the same.

Hitler had nothing against homosexuals - his regime could be considered as partially homosexual
There is very good book about that -

Germans prosecuted those who were homosex and not nazi.So no,in that regard he was not like Stalin.
 

worm that walks

Sexual Bolshevik
Oh Shit, we have a tankie.
Tankies are people who like Stalin. Not people who call him a piece of shit. Reading comprehension isn't your strong suit I'm guessing?
Hitler had nothing against homosexuals - his regime could be considered as partially homosexual
There is very good book about that -

Germans prosecuted those who were homosex and not nazi.So no,in that regard he was not like Stalin.
Scott Lively is a hack. Wiping your ass with his books is an insult to toilet paper.
 

ShadowArxxy

Well-known member
Comrade
Hitler had nothing against homosexuals - his regime could be considered as partially homosexual

This is absolutely not true. Aggressive moral crusading against LGBT persons was one of the *big vote getters* in the Nazi Party's rise to power, and was one of the *specific* issues that gained them a majority coalition with the heavily Catholic Deutsche Zentrumspartei (German Center Party).

As for the book, it's blatantly historical revisionism which goes against all credible scholarship on the matter, and was written as a hit piece by one of the most extreme anti-gay activists in the world -- one who literally advocates for full-fledged genocide against LGBT people.
 
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Abhorsen

Local Degenerate
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Comrade
Osaul
Hitler had nothing against homosexuals - his regime could be considered as partially homosexual
The pink triangle was the patch gays were forced to wear in concentration camps. Also, no, Hitler's reign can't be considered homosexual, at least by anyone with a passing knowledge of WW2 history.
Tankies are people who like Stalin. Not people who call him a piece of shit. Reading comprehension isn't your strong suit I'm guessing?

Scott Lively is a hack. Wiping your ass with his books is an insult to toilet paper.
Seconding this. Also Lively is pretty close to evil. He was the guy who went to Uganda to support the death penalty for gays bill. Not what I would consider a reliable source.
 
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Hlaalu Agent

Nerevar going to let you down
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The pink triangle was the patch gays were forced to wear in concentration camps. Also, no, Hitler's reign can't be considered homosexual, at least by anyone with a passing knowledge of WW2 history.

Seconding this. Also Lively is pretty close to evil. He was the guy who went to Uganda to support the death penalty for gays bill. Not what I would consider a reliable source.

Yeah, no matter what Hitler's personal opinion was (I hear he didn't give a flying fuck) he still tossed gays under the bus to appease certain factions that he needed to keep his power secure, and also tossed Rohm under the bus too...

I can see some homosexuals not being bus tossed, because of convenience and the sort of hypocrisy endemic to authoritarian regime. But that doesn't make it at all homosexual if it was the case.
 

ATP

Well-known member
The pink triangle was the patch gays were forced to wear in concentration camps. Also, no, Hitler's reign can't be considered homosexual, at least by anyone with a passing knowledge of WW2 history.

Seconding this. Also Lively is pretty close to evil. He was the guy who went to Uganda to support the death penalty for gays bill. Not what I would consider a reliable source.


Being homosexual do not prevent germans from making career in NSDAP or SS,which mean,that thesis about them being prosecuted is silly.
Yes,they were sent to labor camps - but only those who do not supported regime.In the same time,jews or gypsies who betrayed their nation was still destined to die.

And death penalty for homosexuals is norm in Koran,so do not be suprised - part population of Uganda is muslim.
 

Abhorsen

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Osaul
Being homosexual do not prevent germans from making career in NSDAP or SS,which mean,that thesis about them being prosecuted is silly.
Yes,they were sent to labor camps - but only those who do not supported regime.In the same time,jews or gypsies who betrayed their nation was still destined to die.

And death penalty for homosexuals is norm in Koran,so do not be suprised - part population of Uganda is muslim.
A number of gay nazis were killed by the regime, including Ernst Rohm, who was killed in the night of the Long Knives, so this is complete horseshit.

On top of this, Uganda is actually a very Christian nation, as they make up 84% of the population, so again you are talking horseshit. The book you cite is from a guy who succeeded in getting the death penalty for gays. It's like citing Hezbollah's book on the Jewish plight under the Nazis.

You are trying to deny part of the holocaust. Those pink triangles? The SS would use them as target practice just because they felt like it. They were killed at a rate half again as large as non-Jewish prisoners. Then when they were rescued, the new German governments threw them back in jail, under the same laws the Nazis introduced and imprisoned them under. No gays received reparations for the horrors they went through. Take your holocaust denial to some other forum.
 
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Aldarion

Neoreactionary Monarchist
Being homosexual do not prevent germans from making career in NSDAP or SS,which mean,that thesis about them being prosecuted is silly.
Yes,they were sent to labor camps - but only those who do not supported regime.In the same time,jews or gypsies who betrayed their nation was still destined to die.

And death penalty for homosexuals is norm in Koran,so do not be suprised - part population of Uganda is muslim.

There were Jews in Hitler's army, including Waffen SS, though Luftwaffe was the safest place for them (in NDH, there were 28 Jews and 13 Serbs who achieved rank of general in the army, so Germany was not the only one with such a schizophrenic stance). Just the fact that there were homosexuals in NSDAP/SS/SA does not mean that homosexuals who were not in those services were not prosecuted.
 

ShadowArxxy

Well-known member
Comrade
The book you cite is from a guy who succeeded in getting the death penalty for gays. It's like citing Hezbollah's book on the Jewish plight under the Nazis.

Actually, it was even worse than that. Prior to the passage of the law pushed for by Scott Lively and other American fundamentalist missionaries, the sex act of sodomy was already a capital crime under laws that were left over from the British regime. The new law makes being gay/lesbian in and of itself a capital crime, as well as imposing severe criminal penalties for failing to inform on suspected gays or for the thought crime of supporting LGBT people.

It is very literally a Nazi style law -- "citizens need to immediately report their neighbors to the Gestapo on the slightest suspicion that they might be, or may harbor sympathies towards, gays".
 
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Aldarion

Neoreactionary Monarchist
I think this is off topic. If we’re going to have a thread about the Nazis, Weimar, Transgenderism, and whatever else I already made such a thread.

Anyone is free to make another one.

Or if said thread is not too old, you can drop a link so we can shift discussion there?
 

ATP

Well-known member
A number of gay nazis were killed by the regime, including Ernst Rohm, who was killed in the night of the Long Knives, so this is complete horseshit.

On top of this, Uganda is actually a very Christian nation, as they make up 84% of the population, so again you are talking horseshit. The book you cite is from a guy who succeeded in getting the death penalty for gays. It's like citing Hezbollah's book on the Jewish plight under the Nazis.

You are trying to deny part of the holocaust. Those pink triangles? The SS would use them as target practice just because they felt like it. They were killed at a rate half again as large as non-Jewish prisoners. Then when they were rescued, the new German governments threw them back in jail, under the same laws the Nazis introduced and imprisoned them under. No gays received reparations for the horrors they went through. Take your holocaust denial to some other forum.

1.what nazis? germans.There belonged to german,not nazi nation.And SA was purged becouse they wanted replace army - so Hitler must purge SA elites to not get killed by his generals.

2.Uganda is protestant,right? and Real Protestants are big on Old Testament.Read what Jahwe did to Sodoma for being homosexual city.

3.we Poles were genocided by germans second after jews - but unless homosexuals,even those who betrayed never could made career in Germany.
Still better then jews - even their traitors was killed - but could not be compared to homosexuals.
You could be free homosexual in Hitler state-as long as you were loyal - but even loyal poles could be only slaves.

It was like with astrology - good aryan astrologs were safe,and bad decadent were not.Homosexuals who was considered good aryan had nothink to fear.
 

Abhorsen

Local Degenerate
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Comrade
Osaul
1.what nazis? germans.There belonged to german,not nazi nation.And SA was purged becouse they wanted replace army - so Hitler must purge SA elites to not get killed by his generals.
What the hell are you talking about here? The Nazis killed off Ernst Rohm, who was a gay nazi, despite your claim that they didn't kill gay nazis. He was personally arrested by Hitler, who also personally approved his execution. There are a number of times that gay SS members were found out about and killed as well, unless they could protest that they were straighter than other gays (they had kids, for example).

2.Uganda is protestant,right? and Real Protestants are big on Old Testament.Read what Jahwe did to Sodoma for being homosexual city.
Are you saying that killing gays is a good thing now, as God demands it? I can't really parse what you are saying. Regardless, you claimed that they were doing this because they were Muslim, which is completely wrong, as they are Christian.

3.we Poles were genocided by germans second after jews - but unless homosexuals,even those who betrayed never could made career in Germany.
Still better then jews - even their traitors was killed - but could not be compared to homosexuals.
You could be free homosexual in Hitler state-as long as you were loyal - but even loyal poles could be only slaves.

It was like with astrology - good aryan astrologs were safe,and bad decadent were not.Homosexuals who was considered good aryan had nothink to fear.
So you read nothing at all that I posted. I just gave you examples of 'loyal' gays being killed. Gay SS members were killed for being gay (not too sad about nazi on nazi violence, but the point still stands). This is utterly wrong.

Also, your statement about Poland is irrelevant. I'm not saying anything about whether Poles were murdered. Just that gays were as well.
 

ShadowArxxy

Well-known member
Comrade
What the hell are you talking about here? The Nazis killed off Ernst Rohm, who was a gay nazi, despite your claim that they didn't kill gay nazis. He was personally arrested by Hitler, who also personally approved his execution. There are a number of times that gay SS members were found out about and killed as well, unless they could protest that they were straighter than other gays (they had kids, for example).

He's pretty much rehashing Scott Lively's bullshit from "The Pink Swastika".

The fact is that Ernst Rohm was the *only* prominent Nazi figure who was gay, and he was arrested and executed literally *as soon as they could afford to dispose of him*. In addition, Rohm was very much a *conservative* gay man who went out of his way to maintain a strongly traditional masculine image compatible with mainstream society. He was a quiet and private individual until he reached a rank in the Nazi Party that forced him to become a public figure, and he was only known to be gay because he was outed as a political smear by the Social Democrat Party in 1931.

Rohm was an extremely unusual exception, and in any case he was liquidated by 1934.
 

Aldarion

Neoreactionary Monarchist
What the hell are you talking about here? The Nazis killed off Ernst Rohm, who was a gay nazi, despite your claim that they didn't kill gay nazis. He was personally arrested by Hitler, who also personally approved his execution. There are a number of times that gay SS members were found out about and killed as well, unless they could protest that they were straighter than other gays (they had kids, for example).

Just a note, but Ernst Rohm wasn't killed because he was gay, he was killed because he (and his SA) were getting too powerful and were a rival to SS as well as a potential threat to stability of NSDAP (or at least Hitler thought so). While it is true that Rohm's sexual escapades were used as a justification after the act itself, they had nothing to do with his death or ordering the purge. I can't comment much on the rest.
 

ShadowArxxy

Well-known member
Comrade
Just a note, but Ernst Rohm wasn't killed because he was gay, he was killed because he (and his SA) were getting too powerful and were a rival to SS as well as a potential threat to stability of NSDAP (or at least Hitler thought so). While it is true that Rohm's sexual escapades were used as a justification after the act itself, they had nothing to do with his death or ordering the purge. I can't comment much on the rest.

Yes, the Night of the Long Knives was primarily about eliminating Rohm as a potential competitor to Hitler. However, purging the SA also appeased conservative elements of the Reichswehr and the German public at large, since it got rid of the one and only prominent gay man in the upper echelon of the Nazi Party.

Ironically, Rohm never saw it coming because Hitler had previously been very aggressive about defending Rohm against criticism, specifically including both internal and external attacks over his homosexuality.
 

ATP

Well-known member
What the hell are you talking about here? The Nazis killed off Ernst Rohm, who was a gay nazi, despite your claim that they didn't kill gay nazis. He was personally arrested by Hitler, who also personally approved his execution. There are a number of times that gay SS members were found out about and killed as well, unless they could protest that they were straighter than other gays (they had kids, for example).


Are you saying that killing gays is a good thing now, as God demands it? I can't really parse what you are saying. Regardless, you claimed that they were doing this because they were Muslim, which is completely wrong, as they are Christian.


So you read nothing at all that I posted. I just gave you examples of 'loyal' gays being killed. Gay SS members were killed for being gay (not too sad about nazi on nazi violence, but the point still stands). This is utterly wrong.

Also, your statement about Poland is irrelevant. I'm not saying anything about whether Poles were murdered. Just that gays were as well.

1.chill,dude..SA was purget becouse Hitler must choose between them and Wermacht ,being homosex had nothing to do with it.

2.You do not undarstandt written text.I only say,that Old Testament is advocating killing sodomites, which means,that all protestants and jews who belive in their religions could do that.
I say nothing about wright or wrong,only about logic.
In other worlds - commies should kill me for being catholic,becouse that is what their ideology demand,but i do not say that it would be good.
Now,undarstandt ?

3. Some SS was killed,but many others who was homosex were not and keep their positions.
I once must read some homosex magazine,and according to them home could be dominating or dominated.Apparently,germans had no problem with dominating homosex,but those dominated was prosecuted.
Do not ask me why,german logic is alien to me.
 

Abhorsen

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Osaul
1.chill,dude..SA was purget becouse Hitler must choose between them and Wermacht ,being homosex had nothing to do with it.
No, but they used the fact that some were gay as part of major propaganda against the SA. I cited this because you said they didn't kill off gay Nazis, but they did. Every statement you have said about the holocaust has been wrong so far.

2.You do not undarstandt written text.I only say,that Old Testament is advocating killing sodomites, which means,that all protestants and jews who belive in their religions could do that.
I say nothing about wright or wrong,only about logic.
In other worlds - commies should kill me for being catholic,becouse that is what their ideology demand,but i do not say that it would be good.
Now,undarstandt ?
This still has nothing to do with the original point, that you cited a person who worked to have gays killed for being gay as evidence when discussing whether the Nazis were anti gay. Again, this is like citing Hamas about whether the holocaust happened. Then you proceeded to show insane ignorance about Uganda, and just assumed they were muslim, presumably because they are African? You radiate stupidity

3. Some SS was killed,but many others who was homosex were not and keep their positions.
I once must read some homosex magazine,and according to them home could be dominating or dominated.Apparently,germans had no problem with dominating homosex,but those dominated was prosecuted.
Do not ask me why,german logic is alien to me.
You have no idea what the hell you are talking about, and this is completely wrong. You've mixed up Greco-Roman beliefs about gay sex (that it was womanly to be penetrated, but penetration was fine) with Nazi beliefs (gays must be made straight or killed). If a gay Nazi had kids, he could show that he was straight, and was sometimes, basically arbitrarily spared.

Maybe read something not by a partial holocaust denier? Start with wikipedia:
 

ATP

Well-known member
No, but they used the fact that some were gay as part of major propaganda against the SA. I cited this because you said they didn't kill off gay Nazis, but they did. Every statement you have said about the holocaust has been wrong so far.


This still has nothing to do with the original point, that you cited a person who worked to have gays killed for being gay as evidence when discussing whether the Nazis were anti gay. Again, this is like citing Hamas about whether the holocaust happened. Then you proceeded to show insane ignorance about Uganda, and just assumed they were muslim, presumably because they are African? You radiate stupidity


You have no idea what the hell you are talking about, and this is completely wrong. You've mixed up Greco-Roman beliefs about gay sex (that it was womanly to be penetrated, but penetration was fine) with Nazi beliefs (gays must be made straight or killed). If a gay Nazi had kids, he could show that he was straight, and was sometimes, basically arbitrarily spared.

Maybe read something not by a partial holocaust denier? Start with wikipedia:

You still do not learned how to read.
1,I never told that germans do not killed homosex - only ,that they killed them for political reasons.Just like elites of SA.

2.Facts are true or not,no matter who told them.You are taking,that i could not use arguments of authors of Pink swastika,becouse they worked for Uganda ? iaccording to your logic,if they said that Earh is orbiting Sun,i should deny it,too.
And they wrote about ,for example known homosex Gustaw Grunges,who become chief of State theatre of Reich,and nobody prosecuted him.

3.NSDAP represented "manly" fraction of homosex - becouse they followed ancient traditions of military societes - when woman was destined to birth children,and men should love each other.In homosex way.
Hans Kahnert even rediscovered such customs in "Edda" to show,that homosex is ancient german tradition.
And of course they must have wives and children - just like Spartans to produce next generation of warriors.
Womens were for reproduction only,true love was man for man.

P.S Holocaust is genocide of jews and gypsies,thanks to Joan Ringelheim we knew,that germans killed only 5.000-15.000 homosex.Compared to 3 millions of Poles or 6 millions of jews it is nothing.
 

Abhorsen

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Osaul
1,I never told that germans do not killed homosex - only ,that they killed them for political reasons.Just like elites of SA.
If by political reasons you mean that nazis hated gays, and it's political because they were in charge, sure. Otherwise this is completely wrong. They banned all gay clubs, rounded up everybody they could, and sent the gays to camps, where the SS would use the pink triangles for target practice. These were politically unaligned gays who were just there for being gay, along with more gays included under 'asocials'.

2.Facts are true or not,no matter who told them.You are taking,that i could not use arguments of authors of Pink swastika,becouse they worked for Uganda ? iaccording to your logic,if they said that Earh is orbiting Sun,i should deny it,too.
And they wrote about ,for example known homosex Gustaw Grunges,who become chief of State theatre of Reich,and nobody prosecuted him.
First, analyzing the source of your information to see if they are lying or not is pretty important. By your logic we should believe CNN about Trump being racist, or Hamas about the holocaust, because the source doesn't matter. It turns out it does matter. You had a person who is incredibly, incredibly biased, so much so that he's tried to get gays killed for being gay, and you are just blindly trusting his opinion on gays. It's the height of stupidity, blindness, and naivety.

Meanwhile, the facts you cited are wrong, selectively applied, or combined with logic fallacies:

Gustaf Gründgens (not whatever the hell you spelt) was an actor, not chief of state (so here's something that's just wrong), though he was gay and the Nazis did use him as an actor. He, like a couple of other exceptions in a variety of important and convenient roles, was spared (cherrypicking data). Arno Smitz, for example, was such a good soldier (3 Iron Crosses) that despite being half-Jewish he was allowed to stay in the Army. Emil Maurice, who was Jewish, was also the #2 soldier in the SS behind Hitler, and declared an honorary Aryan. Erhard Milch was half jewish, and convicted for war crimes against Jews. But anecdotes such as these in no way prove that parts of the holocaust didn't happen, as that's a logical fallacy.

These are exceptions though, and not the rule. Other than a few exceptions, if one was jewish or gay, and it was known by Nazis, they were sent to the camps.

3.NSDAP represented "manly" fraction of homosex - becouse they followed ancient traditions of military societes - when woman was destined to birth children,and men should love each other.In homosex way.
Hans Kahnert even rediscovered such customs in "Edda" to show,that homosex is ancient german tradition.
And of course they must have wives and children - just like Spartans to produce next generation of warriors.
Womens were for reproduction only,true love was man for man.
This isn't true either. You are just parroting what an bigot wrote in a book, then blindly trusting it. In fact, what the book does is interpret what many at the time considered normal manly bromance into romance. What really happened was bromance, some gays trying to convince themselves they weren't by joining up with the most masculine thing there was (proving that one is manly, and thus not gay, is a common reason gays join the military, see Conduct Unbecoming: Gays and Lesbians in the U.S. Military by Randy Shilts). There's a whole book about it that isn't a ball of lies (actually, it is quite good) called Stormtrooper Families: Homosexuality and Community in the Early Nazi Movement, by Andrew Wackerfuss.

P.S Holocaust is genocide of jews and gypsies,thanks to Joan Ringelheim we knew,that germans killed only 5.000-15.000 homosex.Compared to 3 millions of Poles or 6 millions of jews it is nothing.
But a 100,000 gays were arrested for being gay, and about 50,000 convicted. Again, you are cherrypicking information to suit your narrative. But I'm also not sure how this proves your point? Gays are really, really good at hiding. We have a shitton of practice, and mostly look like everybody else. The ones they could catch were prosecuted, with many sent to camps, and 15-5k died because they were gay (if we are just talking number of gays killed, regardless of reason, then it'd be about 5-10% of the total holocaust, as it's not like Jews were magically not gay. The 5-15k figure is about people sent to camps for being gay). So again, we have demonstrated that the holocaust (by which I mean the mass killings of civilian Nazis did), included about 5-15k gays who were killed for being gay.
 

Aldarion

Neoreactionary Monarchist
Of course Nazis killed homosexuals. Free sexuality, homosexuality included, is a very useful tool when you want to destabilize and destroy society. But once that stops being your goal, it becomes a bad thing. And Nazis tended to murder whomever they saw as "bad". Communists however are a more educative story in this regard: they supported sexual revolution early on (including gay rights etc.), but once they came to power they started suppressing free sexuality as much as the Tsarist regime before them.
 

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