Modernist Architects On a Crusade Against Beauty

You are aware that stuff never happened? Nobody in the Middle Ages believed holy water stops the black plague. In fact, they knew about diseases as much as they could have. Hence this:
plague-doctors-reference-01_3x2.jpg
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Early gas mask and protective clothing.

Now can we please stop pretending medieval people were stupid? If anything, they were smarter than us. They just lacked the knowledge we have thanks to accumulation through the centuries.

It took us until the 1800s to discover things like quarantine and hand washing dispite the fact that knowledge of such things since The Old Testament from almost the very beginning. That's kinda of an issue.

No they weren't stupid just like you have people in this time period that are not stupid but I'm not going to pretend as if they were the epitome of mankind. Just like I certainly wouldn't pretend we are somehow the epitome of mankind.
 
It took us until the 1800s to discover things like quarantine and hand washing dispite the fact that knowledge of such things since The Old Testament from almost the very beginning. That's kinda of an issue.

Republic of Dubrovnik practiced quarantine since 1337. And they actually built specialized facilities for it (called Lazareti):
lazareti_3_6.jpg


No they weren't stupid just like you have people in this time period that are not stupid but I'm not going to pretend as if they were the epitome of mankind. Just like I certainly wouldn't pretend we are somehow the epitome of mankind.

Problem I have with modern people is that we tend to forget what we are humans are while also acting as if we're so much smarter than our ancestors.

Dalmatia is much more temperate in the summer than the US.

Fucking New York gets hotter than Dalmatia in summer, let alone Texas, Florida, and the rest of the South.

Dalmatia is also... warmer in the winter than New York. And even on average warmer than South Carolina.

The comparison is ridiculous.

Beyond that, part of the reason for the modernist style that's actually used is that its just not cost effective to do the old styles anymore.

Do you have any idea how expensive it would be to do a modern government building in the classic gothic style?

From what I have found, coastal Croatia has higher summer temperatures than the USA:
.
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Temperatures are on average 26 to 30 degrees Celsius during the summer, but in large cities it can be even hotter due to all the asphalt and concrete - in Split, temperatures around 35 degrees degrees are not unusual, and on extremes temperature can go over 40 degrees. Keep in mind that temperature for Split is measured on Marjan, which is several degrees cooler than the actual city (I drive a bicycle regularly on Marjan, and it is positively balmy compared to the actual residential areas):

Compare to New York:

In short, it seems that Split and New York are quite comparable in terms of temperature, and if one is cooler, it is New York. Remind me to measure the temperature on my balcony the next summer if you are still interested in how hot it is.

Texas and Florida, I can believe. But fact remains that stone and wood are far better isolators than the concrete.

It would be far cheaper to build a Gothic style building that would last several centuries than to build some modern garbage that will be demolished every 40 - 50 years. And if you still think that is expensive, well, stone-faced concrete and actual roofs are honestly not that difficult to do.
 
Problem I have with modern people is that we tend to forget what we are humans are while also acting as if we're so much smarter than our ancestors.

And I get that I really do but I'm seeing a lot of throw "the baby out with the bathwater " based on nostalgia and I think sometimes we forget how far we have come in certain aspects. Not too long ago (relatively speaking) a handful of US citizens contacted a disease that had a 10-30% survival rate. 80% survived while being treated in the states. That's a very impressive jump. We have made advancements and I don't want to see them all thrown away in some attempt to reclaim a nostalgic and oft romanticized version of history.

Honestly I want to see us take what worked from the past and the present and build upon them for a better future. It's almost as if we are supposed to build on and improve what cane before and not throw away history on a whim.
 
And I get that I really do but I'm seeing a lot of throw "the baby out with the bathwater " based on nostalgia and I think sometimes we forget how far we have come in certain aspects. Not too long ago (relatively speaking) a handful of US citizens contacted a disease that had a 10-30% survival rate. 80% survived while being treated in the states. That's a very impressive jump. We have made advancements and I don't want to see them all thrown away in some attempt to reclaim a nostalgic and oft romanticized version of history.
This has been said to you like a dozen times already, and you seem to just refuse to get it:

Stop conflating technological advances with modernist politics and social "progress".

You keep doing it, and it keeps being stupid as Hell. Despite what whiggish historians have liked to claim (in a smug and self-congratulatory manner), those two things are not actually related in any significant way. Yet every single time that somebody criticises modernist attitudes, politics or ideology... you default to "but muh science and tech!" and you just won't stop repeating it. No matter how often people tell you that it's not what they are talking about.

What @Aldarion literally said was that science and technology are "a morally neutral thing". And that's true. They are a means, a method. No more than that.

The problem is with the ideas of Modernity, which are by and large wrong, evil, ugly, or most commonly... a combination of all three. Nobody here is taking a stand against electricity, chemotherapy or the combustion engine. But guess what? Those things don't magically cease existing if we remove the ideas of Modernity. In fact, I'd argue that cience and technology would prosper and flourish if we did...

(For starters because one of Modernity's main deranged fixations -- egalitarianism -- results in a lot of functionally moronic "scientists" who are utterly incapable of anything resembling real science. It also produces massive subsidies for "socially desirable" bullshit, at the expense of funding for actually relevant and useful projects. And those are just two factors at play, out of a multitude.)



Anyway, more precisely on-topic: @Aldarion is 100% right that a sturdy and beautiful building that can last for centuries (and stay 'in style' forever, being timeless) is ultimately far more cost-efficient than cheap shit that has to be demolished and replaced with new shit every few decades. The initial investment may be greater (although even that may be called into question), but that just demonstrates that Modernity lacks long-term thinking and has an unhealthily high time preference. Our "ruling class" (entirely a parvenu-class) thinks in election cycles... at most, their horizon lies a few years in the future. For capable leadership, you must think in decades-- if not centuries.

If you want to know what good architecture is, simply consider what will still be there, both beautiful and useful, five hundred years from now. That is good architecture.
 
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This has been said to you like a dozen times already, and you seem to just refuse to get it:

Stop conflating technological advances with modernist politics and social "progress".

You keep doing it, and it keeps being stupid as Hell. Despite what whiggish historians have liked to claim (in a smug and self-congratulatory manner), those two things are not actually related in any significant way. Yet every single time that somebody criticises modernist attitudes, politics or ideology... you default to "but



muh science and tech!" and you just won't stop repeating it. No matter how often people tell you that it's not what they are talking about.

What @Aldarion literally said was that science and technology are "a morally neutral thing". And that's true. They are a means, a method. No more than that.

The problem is with the ideas of Modernity, which are by and large wrong, evil, ugly, or most commonly... a combination of all three. Nobody here is taking a stand against electricity, chemotherapy or the combustion engine. But guess what? Those things don't magically cease existing if we remove the ideas of Modernity. In fact, I'd argue that cience and technology would prosper and flourish if we did...

(For starters because one of Modernity's main deranged fixations -- egalitarianism -- results in a lot of functionally moronic "scientists" who are utterly incapable of anything resembling real science. It also produces massive subsidies for "socially desirable" bullshit, at the expense of funding for actually relevant and useful projects. And those are just two factors at play, out of a multitude.)



Anyway, more precisely on-topic: @Aldarion is 100% right that a sturdy and beautiful building that can last for centuries (and stay 'in style' forever, being timeless) is ultimately far more cost-efficient than cheap shit that has to be demolished and replaced with new shit every few decades. The initial investment may be greater (although even that may be called into question), but that just demonstrates that Modernity lacks long-term thinking and has an unhealthily high time preference. Our "ruling class" (entirely a parvenu-class) thinks in election cycles... at most, their horizon lies a few years in the future. For capable leadership, you must think in decades-- if not centuries.

If you want to know what good architecture is, simply consider what will still be there, both beautiful and useful, five hundred years from now. That is good architecture.

I believe I understand what you are getting at just fine, and I still don't buy it. Not too long ago we were arguing how culture, ideology, and economy were downstream for each other hence why the idea of white privilege is a disastrous ideology. (At least that's what I see argued against the left) and it's not so easy to simply remove one aspect of something without risking a cascade effect, it takes careful study and almost surgical precision and care of dissecting what worked, how it worked and how it came to be. Notice how I JUST said the following.

Honestly I want to see us take what worked from the past and the present and build upon them for a better future. It's almost as if we are supposed to build on and improve what came before and not throw away history on a whim.

what I see is that people have a "Grass is greener" mentality so they advocate tearing the current system out of the wall and replacing it with the old one not bothering to ask themselves why the old may have been replaced with the new in the first place. Not to mention the fact that the term "Modernity" seems to be this vague catch-all term that essentially means "Whatever about the present that I don't like. it's about as descriptive and useful as "Satanic" or "Racist"

a man dying from food poisoning, or a jousting accident can change the fate of an entire continent what more could be removing whole swaths of a movement without surgical precision for better or worse?

Maybe if some rich conservative starts funding movements and they are proven to work then I'll believe but until then all I see is all belly-aching and no guts to back it up.

Funny enough if it can be shown to have comfortable heating and cooling and indoor plumbing, I'd love to see more classically built houses.
 
And I get that I really do but I'm seeing a lot of throw "the baby out with the bathwater " based on nostalgia and I think sometimes we forget how far we have come in certain aspects. Not too long ago (relatively speaking) a handful of US citizens contacted a disease that had a 10-30% survival rate. 80% survived while being treated in the states. That's a very impressive jump. We have made advancements and I don't want to see them all thrown away in some attempt to reclaim a nostalgic and oft romanticized version of history.

Honestly I want to see us take what worked from the past and the present and build upon them for a better future. It's almost as if we are supposed to build on and improve what cane before and not throw away history on a whim.

And I agree with that. But problem I have is that the Leftists/Marxists/Progressives have created this idea that in order to advance, we need to throw out everything from the past - including things that are good and beautiful. That is something I can never agree with. I don't want to live in an ugly, depressing environment just because old buildings are beautiful and so some idiots do not want to build beautiful things in order to make themselves more distant from the past. That is the wrong approach.

Funny enough if it can be shown to have comfortable heating and cooling and indoor plumbing, I'd love to see more classically built houses.

University I went to was literally this... thank God for the Habsburg Monarchy.
 
Something people aren't realizing is that, at least for modern housing construction, the systems used in the US are so vastly cheaper than traditional construction methods that they are not even comparable. Note: I'm talking about RESIDENTIAL housing, and Residential housing, at least in the US, is the least affected by the post-modern architectural fetishes (after all these are houses designed to be bought and lived in by actual people, who reliably reject modernist architecture, thus good old fashioned market forces keep them looking relatively... old fashioned, even if the underlying construction no longer is).

This massive decrease in the cost of housing production is one of the reasons for the boom in the middle class. Having a nice house was no longer a thing for the wealthy, it was something even middle class people could afford and grow equity. Yes, they would often have to take out a loan for it, but that wasn't actually anything new for a lot of middle class people. Short term loans have been a thing for farmers going back centuries, and the amount of wealth long term owning property has allowed for people is a net good.

One of the major reasons cities have fallen into the hands of architectural decay is because the high cost of real estate basically means that common person cannot own property in the city. Rather, corporations tend to own much of it and corporations, when they want to build a new building, tend first to be concerned with the bottom line.

Steel and glass construction is cheap and allows much taller buildings than so-called "traditional" construction methods. That said, it should also be noted that steel construction doesn't disallow good architecture. There's a reason this:
800px-Empire_State_Building_%28aerial_view%29.jpg


Is considered an iconic building, and while that was, in part, for holding the title of "worlds tallest building" for a time, it has much more to do with the Art Deco style architecture. Everyone the world over recognizes that building. Meanwhile here's another building that held the title of the "worlds tallest" for a long while:
Tower1.jpg


While it's not the worst of glass and steel in the International architectural style, it clearly is architecturally inferior to the Art Deco towers that proceeded it.
 
Yeah, while the Empire State Building cannot exactly hold a candle to older architecture, it still looks outright beautiful compared to basically everything that came after it.

so I'm curious what takes your breath away about hold buildings? talk to me like I'm a therapist that can't make any assumptions.
 
That said, it should also be noted that steel construction doesn't disallow good architecture. There's a reason this:
800px-Empire_State_Building_%28aerial_view%29.jpg
800px-Empire_State_Building_%28aerial_view%29.jpg


Is considered an iconic building, and while that was, in part, for holding the title of "worlds tallest building" for a time, it has much more to do with the Art Deco style architecture. Everyone the world over recognizes that building.
Yeah, while the Empire State Building cannot exactly hold a candle to older architecture, it still looks outright beautiful compared to basically everything that came after it.
I feel that the big competitor of the Empire State Building -- the Chrysler Building -- is far more elegant. But look at it:

2013DS23.407.jpg


Now cover that top section with your hand. You'll find that the bottom section is in fact quite mundane and ugly. Indeed, that's where it's conventionally "modernist". The striking top section, which almost everybody finds beautiful, relies on the forms of spire and arch-- that is, very traditional forms.

Modern architecture (that is: something built in this age) can certainly be beautiful, if it uses modern means to realise timeless aesthetics. But modernist architecture (that is: something built according to the prevailing precepts of this age) can only ever be ugly, as far as I'm aware.
 
Skyscraper design is ruled by cost efficiency.

Its very expensive land, and for regulatory reasons very expensive to build on. Therefore the building design they'll use is whatever to maximize the amount of usable area in the building.
 
I feel that the big competitor of the Empire State Building -- the Chrysler Building -- is far more elegant. But look at it:

2013DS23.407.jpg


Now cover that top section with your hand. You'll find that the bottom section is in fact quite mundane and ugly. Indeed, that's where it's conventionally "modernist". The striking top section, which almost everybody finds beautiful, relies on the forms of spire and arch-- that is, very traditional forms.

Modern architecture (that is: something built in this age) can certainly be beautiful, if it uses modern means to realise timeless aesthetics. But modernist architecture (that is: something built according to the prevailing precepts of this age) can only ever be ugly, as far as I'm aware.
The Chrysler Building is also an Art Deco skyscraper. Something you're missing in both shots though is that while yes, the middle sections are relatively unadorned, at the street level:
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They are more ornate and decorated. The middle section being more unadorned is due to simple practicality, and, well... look at other tall towers:
Clock_Tower_-_Palace_of_Westminster%2C_London_-_September_2006.jpg


Toledo-tower-from-Jesuit-church-scaled.jpg


Both of these are examples of the Gothic style that some folks seem to love, and you'll note that the middle sections of those towers are much plainer and less ornate than the street level or top. Almost like that's a tower thing regardless of architectural style.

Another thing to note, a lot of the greebly bits of Gothic architecture that people seem to like so much aren't there for ornamentation. Things like the Flying Buttress and all those arches and columns aren't there because they look good, they're there because they had to be, they're structural aspects. Architecture moved away from those not because of any aesthetic reason, but due to material science advancing and making them no longer required for construction on that scale. Honestly, I prefer Art Deco and Neoclassical over Neogothic, but then, I prefer elegance over greeblies.
 
I agree with the videos, but I have a real problem with how confrontational they are. This isn't just an issue with this particular sect of commentators. There's another channel that I often agree with (Not Just Bikes) but tends to outright insult everyone outside of their target demographic. This kind of thing isn't just off-putting to those who are not fully convinced, rather it only appeals to those who want their pre-existing opinions reconfirmed.

The book "How to Survive the Modern World" by the School of Life has a more nuanced way of talking about this. It's stance on the history of ugliness in architecture is that the first modern architects often claimed that they were being aesthetically transgressive, but in practice they were aiming for minimalist and geometric aesthetics. But then property developers ran with the stated goal, that beauty is a façade and there can be no objective concept of the ugly nor the beautiful, in a move to build as cheaply as possible. While this may apply to people like Frank Lloyd Wright and Miles van der Rohe, anyone who has a passing familiarity with the history of modern architecture, especially as regards sky scrapers and other public buildings, will be far less charitable. Often the designers had stated goals of trying to use their architecture in order to remold social and ethical norms. Unfortunately, these goals have worked in many cases (just not the utopian aspects).
 
Stone walls and an actual roof do wonders for natural air conditioning
Modern insulation materials can do better, though take some weird care in setup to last and are extremely rarely implemented as such because nobody plans the decades to centuries it takes for it to be cheaper than just running up the electric bill or replacing cheap foam.

The ancient methods of building things are very "First Order Optimal", and that extends to pretty much everything pre-scientific. My overall opinion on organized religion is that it's a factory for cargo-cult ethics; the priesthood are the factory workers, the outside worshippers are the cargo-cultists.

The particular example of the Catholic Church served the rather important function of stitching together a new social contract to replace that of the Pax Romana, which itself replaced the disorganized polytheistic worldviews of antiquity with state-mandated syncretism to pull everything into the Roman worldview without quite having a proper Church.

Pretty much everything you despise about modernity is the messy clusterfuck of some people trying to fix the old factory (your lot), others trying to build a new one (protestants and elitist ideologues), a few trying to be rid of the cargo-cultism (anarchists and a handful of weird technocrats), and the many opportunistic sociopaths taking advantage of the previous three not having resolved the problem of the fragmented social contract yet.

It's not some specific set of ideas, it's the absence of a specific set of ideas. "Modernists" go at eachother's throat over very real and major contradictions stronger than your own with some of them, but you're so caught up on them lacking a pedigree that you can't understand it hasn't been a clean "Us vs. Them" since Sola Scriptura scattered the Protestant Reformation to the winds.
 
so I'm curious what takes your breath away about hold buildings? talk to me like I'm a therapist that can't make any assumptions.

I would need to know what "hold buildings" are in the first place.

But as far as the Empire State Building itself goes:
1) Main reason, as with the Chrysler building as Skallagrim noted, is the top of the building which is - from afar at least - somewhat reminiscent of the roofs of bell towers on Gothic cathedrals.
2) Second reason is the fact that it is layered. It is not just a basic brick dropped somewhere, it has some complexity to its form.
3) It is not covered in glass. In fact, it is not even concrete. To quote, "The exterior of the Empire State Building is composed of 200,000 cubic feet of Indiana limestone and granite, 10 million bricks and 730 tons of aluminum and stainless steel.". This fact alone is sufficient to make it far more beautiful than anything made of concrete and simply painted over.

It's not some specific set of ideas, it's the absence of a specific set of ideas. "Modernists" go at eachother's throat over very real and major contradictions stronger than your own with some of them, but you're so caught up on them lacking a pedigree that you can't understand it hasn't been a clean "Us vs. Them" since Sola Scriptura scattered the Protestant Reformation to the winds.

Oh, I understand that it is not just "us vs them". But from my view, modernists are basically like orcs: they will gladly murder each other, but only after they had gotten rid of all the traditionalists in sight.

EDIT:
Both of these are examples of the Gothic style that some folks seem to love, and you'll note that the middle sections of those towers are much plainer and less ornate than the street level or top. Almost like that's a tower thing regardless of architectural style.

Key point here is relatively. Yes, both are less adorned along the middle... but where Chrysler building is just a bunch of squares, Gothic buildings are far more elegant.
 
old buildings, like why are you so fascinated by gothic architecture?

Because it's majestic? And beautiful?


Gothic buildings were designed to convey a specific set of emotions, to evoke the wonder of God in those who beheld them, and in general, they were sucsessful.



Much of Modern buildings were just designed to stand up. They managed that, but nobody much likes them. Almost nobody (apart from a few loons) is willing to put any effort into keeping them in good shape. They're just ugly. The only emotion they convey is that they don't care about people.

They're just there to do a job, they don't care if people hate them. That's about as good as Modern style gets.
 
Modern insulation materials can do better, though take some weird care in setup to last and are extremely rarely implemented as such because nobody plans the decades to centuries it takes for it to be cheaper than just running up the electric bill or replacing cheap foam.

The ancient methods of building things are very "First Order Optimal", and that extends to pretty much everything pre-scientific. My overall opinion on organized religion is that it's a factory for cargo-cult ethics; the priesthood are the factory workers, the outside worshippers are the cargo-cultists.

The particular example of the Catholic Church served the rather important function of stitching together a new social contract to replace that of the Pax Romana, which itself replaced the disorganized polytheistic worldviews of antiquity with state-mandated syncretism to pull everything into the Roman worldview without quite having a proper Church.

Pretty much everything you despise about modernity is the messy clusterfuck of some people trying to fix the old factory (your lot), others trying to build a new one (protestants and elitist ideologues), a few trying to be rid of the cargo-cultism (anarchists and a handful of weird technocrats), and the many opportunistic sociopaths taking advantage of the previous three not having resolved the problem of the fragmented social contract yet.

It's not some specific set of ideas, it's the absence of a specific set of ideas. "Modernists" go at eachother's throat over very real and major contradictions stronger than your own with some of them, but you're so caught up on them lacking a pedigree that you can't understand it hasn't been a clean "Us vs. Them" since Sola Scriptura scattered the Protestant Reformation to the winds.
Although your terminology is different from my own, and (perhaps unintentionally) a bit more dismissive of the importance and the positive function of religion, I am in agreement with your general argument.

My main addition here is that every society needs a form of structure that goes beyond the merely political, or even the purely social-- which is the function fulflled by organised religion. Once organised religion falls away, you get discord and cultism, which often causes pretty unpleasant excesses.

In that sense, I think your last paragraph in particular may need revision. Fervent Modernists go against each other a lot, because they're by definition a bunch of loonies pulling in all sorts of directions. They are all fundamentally defined by being enemies of the traditional (universal) structure that came before, however. So in that sense, there really is an us-versus-them. Specifically between those who seek a return to the stability of a universalist order, and those who wish to perpetuate chaos and division.

As the Chinese proverb goes: long unity brings division, long division prompts unity. Seen in that light, the age of chaos and division (the age of warring nation-states, a.k.a. Modernity) was inevitable. But by that same light, the end of Modernity and the triumph of stability and universalism is also inevitable. And what is the key characteristic of any stable, universalist system? That's right: a commitment to tradition.

It doesn't even matter that much which specific traditional forms are chosen, the underlying motivations are always the same, being universal. But in the context of Western civilisation, just look at the through-line of politicial, social, religious -- and, yes, aesthetic -- attitudes that have been fairly consistently regarded as "traditional" ever since the days of Charlemagne... and then you'll have a fairly good sense of what "the world after Modernity" will also look like.

But I'm drifting off-topic, so let's get back to architecture!




Another thing to note, a lot of the greebly bits of Gothic architecture that people seem to like so much aren't there for ornamentation. Things like the Flying Buttress and all those arches and columns aren't there because they look good, they're there because they had to be, they're structural aspects. Architecture moved away from those not because of any aesthetic reason, but due to material science advancing and making them no longer required for construction on that scale. Honestly, I prefer Art Deco and Neoclassical over Neogothic, but then, I prefer elegance over greeblies.
Both of these are examples of the Gothic style that some folks seem to love, and you'll note that the middle sections of those towers are much plainer and less ornate than the street level or top. Almost like that's a tower thing regardless of architectural style.
Key point here is relatively. Yes, both are less adorned along the middle... but where Chrysler building is just a bunch of squares, Gothic buildings are far more elegant.
I think @Aldarion's point is valid, here. I'll additionally note that it's a bit unfair to dismiss the decorative elements of the Gothic style as being mostly just structural. Certainly, that practicality and the nature of the materials and the techniques played a role... but that certainly doesn't cover all of it. For instance, all those gargoyles often served a practical purpose (spouting drain-water), but those spouts didn't have to be decorative. Yet they were. That was a deliberate choice. (And we see that purely aesthetical motivation reflected in the eagles jutting out of the Chrysler building's top section. Again: it's so pleasing to us because it's functionally an updated version of a pretty traditional design.)

In the same way, one may well prefer neo-classical architecture, which has its own way of "instantiating", as it were, timeless forms that are always pleasing to the human eye. But note how those, too, have many purely decorative elements. "Greebly bits". Just look at the top of a pillar in such a design, and you'll soon see it. Just as you can see it in ancient temples. When you remove all such "useless" decoration, the style rapidly loses much of it appeal. If you then also abandon the traditional commitment to the right proportions.... well, then you get the kind of oppressive, concrete-built imitation bullshit that the likes of Hitler wanted to put everywhere. (Hitler, of course, was a product of Modernity if ever there was one!)

Deliberately making somehing beautiful in't something superfluous. It's actually a vital element of what makes a building useful. Modernists fail to understand this. They also refuse to accept that certain things are inherently beautiful to (sane) humans; that certain shapes and alignments and proportions are objectively superior. This combination of stupidity and willful blindness has produced the ugliest, least useful architecture ever made in human history.

A hut made of sticks and mud in the heart of the Congo is more aesthetically pleasing than a brutalist abomination.


why are you so fascinated by gothic architecture?
Gothic buildings were designed to convey a specific set of emotions, to evoke the wonder of God in those who beheld them, and in general, they were sucsessful.
Just to add a bit of a tangent to this: the Gothic style is particularly close to the heart of Western traditionalists because it is the defining style of our civilisation. Neo-Classical, for instance, is absolutely stunning, but is still derived from (as the name implies!) the style of the preceding Classical civilisation. The Gothic style is ours. It is a cultural expression of our aesthetic values. And our aesthetic values are ultimately derived from our more fundamental conceptions of what is inherently meaningful and important.

Oswald Spengler, by the way, observed that the Gothic cathedral, seen from within, resembles the forest. The tall trees and their high branches, reflected in stone. He views the forest as the sacred place of our most ancient ancestors, and tells us that the shape of the forest will always have a special meaning for us because of it. Our aesthetics express our heart-felt sense of home, and of familiarity, and of our deepest connection to something holy.

What the fuck does a block of concrete express, huh?
 
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ust to add a bit of a tangent to this: the Gothic style is particularly close to the heart of Western traditionalists because it is the defining style of out civilisation. Neo-Classical, for instance, is absolutely stunning, but is still derived from (as the name implies!) the style of the preceding Classical civilisation. The Gothic style is ours. It is out cultural expression of our aesthetic values. And our aesthetic values are ultimately derived from our more fundamental conceptions of what is inherently meaningful and important.
This is probably part of why I prefer Neo-classical to Gothic and Neo-gothic.

Gothic is very, very EUROPEAN. It is an architectural style of Europe and for Europe. Not that anything's wrong with that, but I'm fundamentally an American. And where Gothic architecture is at the heart of European civilization... well...

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Neoclassical is a very American style in many respects (and you'll note, I've left off the most famous American Neoclassical buildings and NONE of the images are of Federal buildings but are a mix of state capitals, churches, and private homes). I'm not saying I dislike Gothic mind you, but if you asked me which style I'd want a public building built in, I'd choose Neoclassical over Gothic in a heartbeat.
 
old buildings, like why are you so fascinated by gothic architecture?

Because it is beautiful. It is decorative yet elegant, founded in nature around us while at the same time reaching towards God. When you look at the details of Gothic architecture, and especially at its entirety, you will see that it has heavy influence of organic forms - looking at a Gothic building is much like looking at a forest or a meadow. Its structure is complex enough to hold attention, yet still simple enough not to overwhelm the observer, invoking sense of awe and majesty without feeling oppressive.

That is what beauty is.

EDIT: And it is also the reason why I like Gothic architecture more than Classical one. Sure, classical architecture is beautiful and elegant, but there is that sense of mass, of weight, which can at moments feel even oppressive. Gothic architecture simply doesn't have that, sometimes it even feels like it is floating.
 

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