#MeToo and Cancel Culture: Friday is bring your own torches and pitchforks day!

honekitteh

committing shananigans
Obozny
Look, I've tried to tell you guys several times that the point of public accusations isn't to cause lynch mobs and so far none of you have given me a serious response. For the last time, if you were the victim of a crime but don't have enough evidence to secure a conviction, what should you do?

Seek professional help, a doctor, a psychiatrist/therapist. Talk to close trusted friends. Not shout it to the world on social media.

If you don't have enough evidence to secure a conviction, posting it on social media inevitably DOES cause lynch mobs. Intent no longer matters. It's simple cause and effect.
 

Battlegrinder

Someday we will win, no matter what it takes.
Moderator
Staff Member
Founder
Obozny
Kiwifarms is not a reliable source. At all.

Because? Like, they're assholes, certainly, and prone to making poor interpretations of evidence based on their own biases (but then, so is everyone else), but the actual evidence and in information they collect appears to be entirely accurate.


Second, you're going to completely ignore all of the examples and evidence gathered in the report just because of the first paragraph? I also love how you're willing to take a crazy guy who sends legal scholars aggressive and emotional emails and believes it's some sign of injustice when they don't respond.

While said webpage does indeed reek of crazy and isem should have found a better source, it's claims bear out:
Death of Eleanor de Freitas - Wikipedia

Law graduate jailed for rape lies

The case against Gail Sherwood also seems likely to be valid, though unlike the other two there's no slam dunk "yeah, this is fake" bit of evidence.

That paper was written years after those cases, there is no innocent excuse for framing those women as being poor innocent victims of a biased justice system, and choosing to do so anyway strongly suggests the author is knowingly and deliberately pushing a particular POV.

Look, I've tried to tell you guys several times that the point of public accusations isn't to cause lynch mobs and so far none of you have given me a serious response. For the last time, if you were the victim of a crime but don't have enough evidence to secure a conviction, what should you do?

Suck it up and move on with your life. Sometimes, bad shit happens and bad guys get away with it, that's the price we pay for living under a justice system that's built around "innocent until proven guilty". File a police report and let the police do thier job, even if your case doesn't get them convicted it will sit in evidence forever and someday, might end up helping get them convicted in the future.

But even if you feel that's not good enough and doesn't do enough to protect victims, that doesn't excuse Quinn's chosen tactic of "say nothing to anyone for decades and then bring it up on social media".
 

CarlManvers2019

Writers Blocked Douchebag
Guys, I suggest you give up, he’s arguing with strong emotion here

Like the time I once argued with a guy making a Naruto bashfic where the author was bashing the entire village of Konoha

I kept talking about how my problem was in how he was using FANON to bash Konoha and somehow I was being told that I was in approval of Child Abuse or “So if you see a child out in the streets being beaten!? You just side with those beating him!?” when I kept trying to point out again how my problem was all the character assassination and FANON about how NONE of that entire village brutally attacking and torturing Naruto as a child to the point of near death was canon

Seriously, most they did was purposely ignore his presence. It was why he preferred being looked on as an annoyance rather than be outright ignored.

Guy called me Hitler before blocking me for the PM

Honestly, FFN’s full of narcissistic douchebags who call any actual criticism, “flaming”.

Perfect recruitment for Isekai authors
 

Greengrass

Well-known member
I saw this posted on twitter and I figured I would bring it here, by Scott Benson who made Night In The Woods with Alec.


While I praise Alec’s work, consider this- people left the industry because of what he did. People gave up their dreams, the art they wanted to make. People, drawn by the promise of working with a well known indie developer, found themselves caught between giving up their dreams and financial stability and getting away from him. People spent years with him as a destructive presence in their lives. People developed PTSD. People spent hours and money on therapy. People felt trapped by him. It’s hard for me to see how one man’s work is worth what he did to so many others.
...
I survived Alec Holowka. A lot of people got it much worse than I can wrap my head around. And I’m a man. People who aren’t men got it worse. I thought I was unique in my experience with him, and that the abuse started and stopped with me. I thought I’d helped him truly change. I was wrong. I feel so stupid. I feel gross. This is how one man can have several victims and never have it come to light. Abuse isolates you. It makes you lonely. It might make you too afraid to talk about it. And if you do, people may not believe you. But mostly it just goes on silently. For years. Because you depend on them. Because they hold control on some aspect of your life. Because you’ve just been beaten down into silence.
 

Hlaalu Agent

Nerevar going to let you down
Founder
Therefore every last allegation against him is automatically true.

Well, that would track with the logic of these people. And actually reading, the guy mentioned that Alec thought people were planning on ruining his life, you know doesn't it seem pretty blind for this man not to consider that maybe Alec was right on the money and that he actually had realized he'd be in the crosshairs sooner or later?
 

Isem

Well-known member
Your own article admits that part of the reason for the number variations was literally officers just using the wrong code for a case rather then anything else.
Staff Sgt. Angela McDade, who this week retired as head of the service’s sexual assault and child abuse section, told The Globe that there was not previously a clear understanding of when to classify a case as unfounded. If a complainant decided that she didn’t want to proceed with an investigation, or if she refused to co-operate, the allegation was typically classified as unfounded.
That's not deliberate mishandling that's just filing issues from a department that wasn't aware of how it should have been filed.

In other cases like the L and B case, lack of training and knowledge was to blame for the case in question coupled with a lack of thoroughness rather then anything resembling deliberate malice. Something that has since been corrected I'll note.

Then you have someone upset that the police have the temerity to train people to spot false allegations. Even as they admit in the same paragraph that is has nothing to do with the unfounded rate they're complaining about.

Does your article show that there are failings? Yes. Does it matter at the end of the day? No. Because at the end of the day that's still your best option if you're even remotely interested in actual justice. Albeit I doubt anyone instigating it has any interest in actual justice.
First, the paper doesn't say that she wasn't convicted. Second, you're going to completely ignore all of the examples and evidence gathered in the report just because of the first paragraph?
No she just opens up engaging in emotional manipulation in order to try and trick you into feeling sympathetic for someone who faked injuries and lied to people (including claiming she'd lost a baby because of the abuse) in order to get an excuse for not taking her law exams. "Oh she was separated from her 9 month old daughter and the judge said her actions were "utterly wicked". She even says she's innocent to this day". After this she promptly jumps into a different case where there was actual rape that wasn't identified and tries to equate the two. Totally not trying to imply that the conviction was wrong, why would anyone ever think that reading the paragraphs in question.

If someone is willing to start to pulling stunts like that in just the opening argument on basic, easy to check information, and you know that there's at least one more of it to come in the rest of the text why exactly should I trust the author not to try and fuck with the rest of her examples like that or just take biased statistics that aren't going to be anywhere near as easy to dig up the details for?
I also love how you're willing to take a crazy guy who sends legal scholars aggressive and emotional emails and believes it's some sign of injustice when they don't respond.
First off, I mainly linked him to show that simply looking up the author's name on google brought up results calling her work a hackjob. Secondly, the statements he raises are all true, as evidenced by basic google searches as I've already shown for the first woman brought up. He's already been more honest then your author has. The only complaint that can levied towards him for that page is that his website is hilariously antiquated and that he holds a dim view of the people he sent his email to. And if nothing else his timeline is sourced. Now other parts of his site are a lot less defendable considering the contents but that doesn't really mean much for this section.

Also, as an amusing side note, I've also found this blog post by Alexander Economou the man who was falsely accused by Eleanor de Freitas and there's some very interesting things about our dear author there. And considering the case happened in 2014 and she's still bringing it up at least as late as 2016 I'm inclined to believe at least some of his statements on the matter.
Dafuq does that have to do with rape accusations?
Gee, what could a case which involved so called witnesses to a crime who happily joined into a popular narrative such as supposed police brutality when there was no consequences for doing so possibly have to do with people online lying in order to join in on a popular narrative like metoo? Could it be that I'm saying that people will outright lie about stories if it fits in their biases unless they risk actual consequences for having done so like what happens in court.

Or to put it really simply: Case where "witnesses" lied about their story outside of court because of ideology, but changed it when in court=What actually happens when online "corroboration" happens only sans the retraction part because it never gets to court.
Kiwifarms is not a reliable source. At all.
...
Read the post I linked you to and realize that what I linked you to is a post with archives of the tweets which have since been deleted. You can complain that the farms are not a reliable source all you like but that means nothing when all I'm using it for is as a convenient way to link you to an archive of the tweets in question. No more, no less. So unless you can somehow muster a complaint about the internet archive, your distrust of the farms is meaningless because they're not the source of the information but a handy gateway to it so I don't have to fill my post with the same hyperlinks you would have gotten from the farms.
Look, I've tried to tell you guys several times that the point of public accusations isn't to cause lynch mobs and so far none of you have given me a serious response. For the last time, if you were the victim of a crime but don't have enough evidence to secure a conviction, what should you do?

Yes it is. There is absolutely 0 other intention behind this garbage aside from instigating lynch mobs and everyone watching this shit play out knows it and has seen it happen in every single case. Unless you've been living under a rock this entire time simply seeing the way these cases are panning out is enough to tell you all you need to that it's happened every single time.

You go to the cops and file a report the moment it happens instead of waiting 20+ years. End of discussion. You don't wait 20+ years then start a lynch mob after the fact which is what actually happens in these cases. And if there isn't enough because you waited decades? Then it sucks to be you. The justice system exists to give everyone a fair trial not serve as a bludgeon for those seeking to accuse others without any evidence.
 

CarlManvers2019

Writers Blocked Douchebag
@Isem
Maybe best to give up, even if he can’t come up with proper counterarguments, he’ll still believe what he chooses to

If he believes and feels strongly enough, who can truly prove to his inner self that he’s wrong? Gaslighting is scary in that you can make someone somehow believe they did something to deserve huge amounts of abuse.

“Why did you make me hit you?”
“Just say I didn’t bully you! Because I didn’t, now I’ll do my victory dance”-paraphrased from Mark Waid

Anybody got links to that youtube vid by Yellow Flash or Just Some Guy with snapshots of the text conversation Waid had with some guy from Alterna
 

Arch Dornan

Oh, lovely. They've sent me a mo-ron.
If Kiwifarms isn't reliable then Nick is Vic's lawyer just like the users at Pull believe that Ron's lawyers cited. Not sure if they still believe it.

Erica McCord from one of the affadvits felt the site was reliable enough to give her side of the story.
@Isem
Maybe best to give up, even if he can’t come up with proper counterarguments, he’ll still believe what he chooses to
Perfectly fine too.
 

CarlManvers2019

Writers Blocked Douchebag
If Kiwifarms isn't reliable then Nick is Vic's lawyer just like the users at Pull believe that Ron's lawyers cited. Not sure if they still believe it.

To paraphrase the guy on SB who had a Skitter avatar when referring to a vid by Tim Pool “Don’t listen to Far Right propoganda”

Only info from guys like Kotaku, CNN and Snopes’ credible enough
 

Arch Dornan

Oh, lovely. They've sent me a mo-ron.
To paraphrase the guy on SB who had a Skitter avatar when referring to a vid by Tim Pool “Don’t listen to Far Right propoganda”
And it will be their ignorance to not understand the full situation. Perfectly fine to do as well they have nothing to do with the case except to offer their own opinions.
 

CarlManvers2019

Writers Blocked Douchebag
And it will be their ignorance to not understand the full situation. Perfectly fine to do as well they have nothing to do with the case except to offer their own opinions.

Who is to say they are ignorant? It is only they who can realise their ignorance. Thoug if one of them admits ignorance then that person is no longer one of them and thus essentially one of us, therefore there is no way for them to tell who is ignorant.

Plus they already consider themselves of the revolution. Who’s to say Hollywood is wrong?
 

Arch Dornan

Oh, lovely. They've sent me a mo-ron.
Who is to say they are ignorant? It is only they who can realise their ignorance. Thoug if one of them admits ignorance then that person is no longer one of them and thus essentially one of us, therefore there is no way for them to tell who is ignorant.

Plus they already consider themselves of the revolution. Who’s to say Hollywood is wrong?
I say they're ignorant because they don't bother checking the sources except for certain people. Nick is quite certain Funimation and Ron's lawyer is checking out his videos ha ha.
 

Battlegrinder

Someday we will win, no matter what it takes.
Moderator
Staff Member
Founder
Obozny
First off, I mainly linked him to show that simply looking up the author's name on google brought up results calling her work a hackjob. Secondly, the statements he raises are all true, as evidenced by basic google searches as I've already shown for the first woman brought up. He's already been more honest then your author has. The only complaint that can levied towards him for that page is that his website is hilariously antiquated and that he holds a dim view of the people he sent his email to. And if nothing else his timeline is sourced. Now other parts of his site are a lot less defendable considering the contents but that doesn't really mean much for this section.

I'd actually agree with 2B on this, even if the crazy person rant blog is right, it's still not the best way to present a case. You want to put credible, reliable sources forward first, it's more persuasive and harder to dismiss. And less likely to bite you in the ass.
 
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