#MeToo and Cancel Culture: Friday is bring your own torches and pitchforks day!

[Navarro]

Cycles. Thigs come and go with a startling regularity once you know what to look for. After Winter, Summer and after Summer, Winter.

So you believe in Nietzche's eternal return.

False. Nations and Peoples do have immortal souls. They're called Angels.

And the overwhelming testimony of the Scriptures, as presented in Deuteronomy and Daniel, is that the "national angels", save Michael who stands up for God's people, are actually demons working behind the scenes to manipulate them into idol-worship and evildoing. So if you're arguing that they're the essences of the world's cultures rather than malignant parasites wrecking spiritual woe ... then what you're really saying is that all human cultures save the Jewish one are fundamentally demonic.

Ignoring that, it's plain that over the long course of history many "nations and peoples" have either come into being or ceased to exist. This ... rather puts doubt on your theory, unless you're going to argue that there's an angel of "Central Asian steppe raiders" or some other such banality (and even then, the angel of steppe raiders would be rather out-of-work these days).

What do you think monarchy actually is?

"Find in any country the Ablest Man that exists there; raise him to the supreme place, and loyally reverence him: you have a perfect government for that country; no ballot-box, parliamentary eloquence, voting, constitution-building, or other machinery whatsoever can improve it a." ~ Thomas Carlyle.

And then, even assuming your founding monarch is the glorious perfect wunderkind Carlyle describes (the vast majority of which no monarchs were); he dies while his son remains a child; and then his brother decides he would do a better job of running the country; and you have a succession war. Or he splits up his kingdom among his sons, and they destroy it in their internecine strife over who gets to be top dog. Or his incompetent but impatient firstborn successfully poisons him to take the throne, and sends the country down the drain. Or inbreeding to preserve his family's land ownership and wealth results in somebody rife with mental and physical deformities who dies with no issue, leading to a war of succession. Or his wife poisons his chosen heir in favour of someone she believes she can control, who turns out to be an utter failure.

Or his officers of state (because contra Carlyle, no one man can actually run a whole country larger than a village just by himself; even totalitarian dictators rely on a circle of supporters and an army of bureaucratic officials) sideline him and claim to run the country in his name while looting the royal treasury to their hearts' desire.Or one of his more prominent generals decides he wants the throne, and bam civil war. Or he goes mad in his later years and razes one of his own cities in a fit of paranoia. Or his bodyguards murder him and openly sell his kingdom to the highest bidder, etc. etc. ...

Also, I believe you claimed absolute monarchy was a degeneration from the medieval paradigm of king-as-first-among-equals?

 

[LordsFire]

'Communism' is dead. No one cares about Marx or Lenin, not even members of the Russian or Chinese 'Communist' parties. Yes, power politics.

Oh, how I wish this were the case. We would live in a measurably better world if it were, because while its lack would not remove tyranny from the hearts of men, it would remove what has by far been the most destructive form it has taken.

That you think this also shows me you aren't just a strident idealogue, but that you're actively out of touch with reality. Or to give a more generous interpretation, prone to hyperbole extreme enough that useful discourse becomes nigh-impossible.

 

[Navarro]

That you think this also shows me you aren't just a strident idealogue, but that you're actively out of touch with reality. Or to give a more generous interpretation, prone to hyperbole extreme enough that useful discourse becomes nigh-impossible.

I mean, he accidentally argued that all the world's cultures are demonic. And believes that "rule of one" is a viable political paradigm for anything above a small village ...

 

[Hlaalu Agent]

I mean, he accidentally argued that all the world's cultures are demonic. And believes that "rule of one" is a viable political paradigm for anything above a small village ...

No he didn't. You put those words into his mouth by cherry picking a religious argument.

 

[Navarro]

No he didn't. You put those words into his mouth by cherry picking a religious argument.

What he said was "the essences of the world's cultures are national angels". The only 'national angels' described in the Bible are actually demons. Solaris claims to be a Christian and hence to follow the Bible. QED.

If he'd argued from a strictly neo-Platonist line he wouldn't have exposed himself to that line of attack - but still would have the problem that nations and peoples clearly come and go across history, which casts doubts on their eternality. Or the argument that they were all created by God at the Tower of Babel - which again falls into the problem of nations historically rising and falling and requires a very literal interpretation of Genesis.

But he chose the 'national angels' line and I hit it right at its gaping flaw.

But this line of debate is a tangent anyway.

 

[Navarro]

This is like pointing at individual trees and asking 'which forest?'

To be specific, the Chinese civil examination system started during the Tang (7th century) and took until the Song (10th century) to become fully prevalent. Clearly it was a great factor in Chinese culture and governance for more than a millennium; but said culture also existed more than a thousand years before it came into being.

One might also note that in less than a century Japanese culture radically changed from deeply isolationist and traditionalist with a ruling bureaucratic class holding a strict code of honour, to rampantly neophiliac and militarily expansionist, and then to an obsession with cuteness and niceness just as deep as their previous militarism. Not to mention that a few centuries before the 19th, the ancestors of the bureaucrats were hardened fighters happy to make war with each other over rulership of the country, and not afraid to hire the services of mercenaries or use weapons and tactics deemed dishonorable during the 19th century.

 

[DocSolarisReich]

No he didn't. You put those words into his mouth by cherry picking a religious argument.

It’s clear that expecting honesty from my interlocutors is too much.

 

[Hlaalu Agent]

It’s clear that expecting honesty from my interlocutors is too much.

I think he is being honest, and any cherrypicking is unintentional. Basically, he found something he believes is a logical error he can exploit. The sort of thing we do in a debate. We probably shouldn't continue this digression, and instead create a new thread of the actual topic, where you two can throw down. The debates here are far too important to let die as a tangent.

Anyways to get back to the previous topic, I'd question whether we are too mired in this period to actually rise above and see where we are. If we are in a novel era of history, another cycle, or somewhere between. I don't think this is the case, but I think it might be true to a degree- everything happened today is obscured sort of like how the Dark Side obscured everything in the PT.

 

[Navarro]

It’s clear that expecting honesty from my interlocutors is too much.

Ignoring that whole argument ...

What are the angels of the Huns, the Tocharians, the Ancient Egyptians, the Sumerians, the Gauls, the Hittites, the Indo-Greeks, the Visi- and Ostrogoths, the Etruscans, the Minoans, the Garamantes, et al doing these days? One would think they have nothing to do having no "nations or peoples" to take care of anymore. Or do they "die" or otherwise cease to be when their nation does? But that means they aren't immortal, which is rather unbefitting of angels. Were they reassigned or demoted? But that means that they're not actually immortal national souls - more like a bigger version of guardian angels, for a specific group of people. At what level does a nation or people become distinct enough from others to mandate angelic support? Is there an American angel and under him a Yankee and a Dixie angel (or 11 angels)? Were the Serb, Croat, et al. angels replaced by or put under a Yugoslav angel between 1918 and 1992? Did Germany's and Russia's respective national angels fall in 1917 and 1933 respectively?

 

[LordsFire]

Ignoring that whole argument ...

What are the angels of the Huns, the Tocharians, the Ancient Egyptians, the Sumerians, the Gauls, the Hittites, the Indo-Greeks, the Visi- and Ostrogoths, the Etruscans, the Minoans, the Garamantes, et al doing these days? One would think they have nothing to do having no "nations or peoples" to take care of anymore. Or do they "die" or otherwise cease to be when their nation does? But that means they aren't immortal, which is rather unbefitting of angels. Were they reassigned or demoted? But that means that they're not actually immortal national souls - more like a bigger version of guardian angels, for a specific group of people. At what level does a nation or people become distinct enough from others to mandate angelic support? Is there an American angel and under him a Yankee and a Dixie angel (or 11 angels)? Were the Serb, Croat, et al. angels replaced by a Yugoslav angel between 1918 and 1992? Did Germany's and Russia's respective national angels fall in 1917 and 1933 respectively?

Good question, but we should go to a new thread at this point.

 

[gral]

What even is 'statism' and why should I be worried about it when I live in a post modern cyberpunk dystopia?

Statism - shorthand for bringing all or as much as possible of the economy into the State's control(just like like communists do - but they aren't the only ones to do it). As for why you should be worried about it, I wouldn't know, I'm just saying large swathes of the third world certainly won't be 'beacons of relative freedom' as the other poster put it.

 

[DocSolarisReich]

Statism - shorthand for bringing all or as much as possible of the economy into the State's control(just like like communists do - but they aren't the only ones to do it). As for why you should be worried about it, I wouldn't know, I'm just saying large swathes of the third world certainly won't be 'beacons of relative freedom' as the other poster put it.

The I would say that ‘statism’ is orthogonal to ‘freedom’ as such. Especially in industrialized economies. I’m much more worried about the corporations programming my children and trying to change their sex because of the collective insanity of the ruling classes.

 

[DocSolarisReich]

Anyways to get back to the previous topic, I'd question whether we are too mired in this period to actually rise above and see where we are. If we are in a novel era of history, another cycle, or somewhere between. I don't think this is the case, but I think it might be true to a degree- everything happened today is obscured sort of like how the Dark Side obscured everything in the PT.

The correspondences between the reality of today and the prophecies of the Kali Yuga are too striking to ignore. It seems to me that we can never know if this The End, in an eschatological sense, but it is seems certainly to be of the type.

 

[Navarro]

The correspondences between the reality of today and the prophecies of the Kali Yuga are too striking to ignore.

You can't really call yourself a Christian and simultaneously worry about the fulfillment of pagan myths. You might as well worry that the sun won't rise next morning since no more hearts are being offered to Huitzilopochtli, or that you'll come across the Gorgons and be turned to a statue, or be watching for the Aesir and the Jotnar's epic ultimate heavy metal battle with no survivors.

Good question, but we should go to a new thread at this point.

The gauntlet has been thrown:

https://www.the-sietch.com/index.php?threads/national-angels-collective-souls.5147/#post-152013

Sooner or later, the Chinese will solve their problems in the Chinese way.

...

Just like the problems of China require Chinese solutions, the problems of Russia require Russian solutions.

You also can't do this kind of relativism and complain about the universal perniciousness of "Atlanticism". The defender of it can just say "Atlantic problems, Atlantic solutions" and where are you then?

What do you think monarchy actually is?

"Find in any country the Ablest Man that exists there; raise him to the supreme place, and loyally reverence him: you have a perfect government for that country; no ballot-box, parliamentary eloquence, voting, constitution-building, or other machinery whatsoever can improve it a." ~ Thomas Carlyle.

Rolling back here, this is literally impossible in political theory above the scale of a village and probably not even there. You see ... this wunderkind, being neither omniscient nor omnipresent, necessarily has to delegate some of his power and authority to others who'll act on his behalf anywhere he's not physically present, or when dealing with a subject he knows nothing about (or simply doesn't have the time to deal with - only so many hours in a day). And in order to do that, he necessarily loses his absolute power and control over all things in his kingdom - he has to rely on ministers of state and local officials. And then you no longer you have the "rule of one" you described in another post as the only proper form of government. Which also refutes Carlyle's claim that an absolute monarch can do without any "machinery" save his own supreme authority.

The I would say that ‘statism’ is orthogonal to ‘freedom’ as such. Especially in industrialized economies. I’m much more worried about the corporations programming my children and trying to change their sex because of the collective insanity of the ruling classes.

I thought that one of your arguments against the Western method of governance was that it made the state much more intrusive into the lives of the common citizenry? Which you apparently don't actually care about?

 

[Husky_Khan]

In a sentence I never thought I'd type: Social Media Outrage over Mumford & Sons Banjo Player Winston Marshall tweeting that he read Andy Ngo's new book Unmasked.

The musicians tweet is already deleted but apparently he stated something outrageous:

Spoiler: Fascist Hate Speech

This in turn incurred the wrath of whiny people on the internet who immediately declared him a Nazi and a Fascist. Thankfully the media has managed to engage in responsible reporting with The Hollywood Reporter, Consequences of Sound, Billboard, NME and other media outlets referring to Andy Ngo as variations of a right wing agitator and far right personality. Some of the ree'ing responses can be seen below.

Mumford & Sons' Winston Marshall praises "brave" right-wing agitator Andy Ngo

Winston Marshall of Mumford & Sons has received criticism after praising notorious right-wing journalist and agitator Andy Ngo.

www.nme.com

Others are now freaking out over the fact that he apparently dated actress Dianna Agron in the past or that his Father is allegedly a George Soros linked Hedge Fund manager.

A cursory lookover Winston Marshall's latest tweets (that aren't deleted) seems to show him tweeting about the brutality of the CCP's actions in Hong Kong and Xinjiang.

In 2018, the band Mumford & Sons survived the social media outrage of taking a picture with well known Nazi Psychologist Jordan Peterson.

Sadly it looks like Winston Marshall caved. He deleted all of his tweets, apologized and begged for forgiveness for his statements on Andy Ngo's book and is 'temporarily' leaving the band to educate himself or whatever.

 

[Husky_Khan]

People are really pushing to get rid of Piers Morgan now it seems. Some have fallen on the good ol' reliable tactic of saying they were pushed to suicide by online confrontations with Piers Morgan of all people despite the fact Piers Morgan isn't nearly witty enough to bully people to death.

Ms Jamil, a British TV host turned LA woke celeb, locked horns with Morgan shortly after the suicide of Love Island’s Caroline Flack in February 2020. After Ms Jamil expressed sorrow over Ms Flack’s death, and wagged her finger at the online bullies who drive women to such desperate conditions, Morgan decided to reveal some private messages he had received from Flack. One said: ‘I’m struggling with Jameela. The hate she aims at me.’ Oof.

This was undoubtedly devastating for Jamil. There she was getting retweets for expressing sadness over Flack’s death, while Flack, towards the end of her life, had felt ‘hated’ by Jamil. Jamil’s performance as Queen Feminist, as the implacably woke defender of women and minorities from abuse, had been punctured. Flack, it seems, had felt especially put out by Jamil’s online rage against a show called The Surjury that Flack had been due to present, which would have been a kind of reality-TV cosmetic-surgery shindig.

So this woman, Ms Jamil apparently bullied a woman who committed suicide and Piers brought that up when Jamil was expressing sorrow for her death.

he says her spat with Morgan pushed her to the very edge. Following Morgan’s departure from Good Morning Britain this week, she said: ‘I almost killed myself a year ago because of Piers Morgan’s relentless campaign of lies and hatred against me…’ She said she is glad to still be alive, not least because she gets to see Morgan ‘leave GMB’. She accompanied her comment with a gif of her doing a hair flick at a red-carpet event.[/quote[

So when a campaign to cancel Piers Morgan started, she naturally stated that she too was almost driven to suicide by Piers Morgans fact based revelations about her own past in an effort to gain likes and dopamine and twitter cloud and dunk on Piers Morgan when he was down.

Jameela Jamil and the weaponisation of suicide

Too many celebs and campaigners are using suicide to try to win the argument.

www.spiked-online.com

 

[Cherico]

I honestly think we are going to have a preference cascade away from this shit pretty soon.

When the reaction against this woke religion hits critical mass it will be ugly as fuck and also totally desereved.

 

[DocSolarisReich]

When the reaction against this woke religion hits critical mass it will be ugly as fuck and also totally desereved.

We can only hope.

CPS Worker Defies Gag Order, Exposes Violent Child Sex Ring in State Foster System

A woman who previously worked for the Arizona DCS has broken her gag order and is speaking out about a horrifying child sex trafficking ring in which children are raped and tortured.

thefreethoughtproject.com

 

[Doomsought]

We can only hope.

CPS Worker Defies Gag Order, Exposes Violent Child Sex Ring in State Foster System

A woman who previously worked for the Arizona DCS has broken her gag order and is speaking out about a horrifying child sex trafficking ring in which children are raped and tortured.

thefreethoughtproject.com

In cases where the state is accomplice to the crime, I condone vigilante justice.

 

[DocSolarisReich]

In cases where the state is accomplice to the crime, I condone vigilante justice.

The ring leader is a DOD apparatchik and former deputy commander of multiple installations.

“The issue's not whether you're paranoid, Lenny, I mean look at this shit, the issue is whether you're paranoid enough.” ~ Strange Days