I've been noticing a big left-wing turn against police unions lately. I don't exactly remember huge specific defenses of them before this, but just from personal wanderings Vox and the Daily Show have been talking about how bad they are since the riots. If this has any stamina is another question.
Meaningful Police Reform
- Thread starter Sailor.X
- Start date
That Legal Eagle work made a video on potential police reform.
His suggestions (not endorsements) were what he considered easy to inplement if there was political support/will behind it.
3:30 Body Cameras: Mandatory to have on all the time.
5:00 Public Access to Police Misconduct Records: To shed light on the "bad apples" who tend to generate a disproportionate number of complaints/misconduct and limit their corrupting influence. Encourage whistleblowing.
8:26 Police Unions: Conflict of interest between best interests of police officers and the community at large. Eliminate collective bargaining agreements where police get special treatment over misconduct not afforded to citizens at large.
12:10 Post Civilian Oversight: Civilian oversight boards have ability to levy punishment for police misconduct.
12:59 High Stakes Penalties for Police Misconduct: Abrogate Qualified Immunity. Increase penalties for misconduct convictions.
14:04 #8 Can't Wait Suggestions
15:29 Dr-Militarize the Police
16:43 Limit Police Interactions & Activate Other Civil Servants: More health and social workers as first called responders.
17:38 Conspicuously Identify All Police & Generally Ban/Curb Use of Rubber Bullets/ Tear Gas
20:19 Rethink the Laws & Authorization of Force: Using force in response to minor transgressions of the law
21:00 Rethink Penalties & Police Incentives: Revenue generated for police departments via citations and misdemeanors
21:30 Encourage Community Involvement: Police presence beyond negative encounters and interactions.
22:30 Federal Oversight & Funding: Police agencies are a patchwork when it comes to data sharing, communication and often underfunded. And more DoJ investigation of Police departments.
His suggestions (not endorsements) were what he considered easy to inplement if there was political support/will behind it.
3:30 Body Cameras: Mandatory to have on all the time.
5:00 Public Access to Police Misconduct Records: To shed light on the "bad apples" who tend to generate a disproportionate number of complaints/misconduct and limit their corrupting influence. Encourage whistleblowing.
8:26 Police Unions: Conflict of interest between best interests of police officers and the community at large. Eliminate collective bargaining agreements where police get special treatment over misconduct not afforded to citizens at large.
12:10 Post Civilian Oversight: Civilian oversight boards have ability to levy punishment for police misconduct.
12:59 High Stakes Penalties for Police Misconduct: Abrogate Qualified Immunity. Increase penalties for misconduct convictions.
14:04 #8 Can't Wait Suggestions
15:29 Dr-Militarize the Police
16:43 Limit Police Interactions & Activate Other Civil Servants: More health and social workers as first called responders.
17:38 Conspicuously Identify All Police & Generally Ban/Curb Use of Rubber Bullets/ Tear Gas
20:19 Rethink the Laws & Authorization of Force: Using force in response to minor transgressions of the law
21:00 Rethink Penalties & Police Incentives: Revenue generated for police departments via citations and misdemeanors
21:30 Encourage Community Involvement: Police presence beyond negative encounters and interactions.
22:30 Federal Oversight & Funding: Police agencies are a patchwork when it comes to data sharing, communication and often underfunded. And more DoJ investigation of Police departments.
My opinion is that Conservatives should play hardball on this.
Sure, let's abolish the Police Union, in return for sacrificing one of the only unions that tend to break more Republican, the Republicans need to demand an equal and proportional destruction of the Teacher's Unions or all Public Sector Unions if possible. If the Dems refuse, don't let them destroy the Police Union.
I would argue that for as many problems Police Unions have caused, Teachers Unions have actually caused considerably more damage to society.
Doomsought
Well-known member
So he wants the police to just kill rioters instead /sarcasm
Qualified immunity needs to be banned so hard that punishments for any legislator or judge trying to bring it back are in the bill.
I still think compulsion to criminal prosecution on 1984 lawsuites would have a far greater and more constructive effect in the long term.
Yinko
Well-known member
Is it even legal to union-break? Most union breaking I know of was done either by Thatcher or during the Industrial Revolution and took starving them of work (Thatcher) or violence (Industrial Revolution) to pull off. Even if it is, you would be hard pressed to pull off a deal like that. Though, now would be the perfect time to break the teacher unions as a teacher's strike would be pretty meaningless right now becaues of the shut-down.
That's UK stuff. In the US it's weird. The whole union system is weird, because of the National Board of Labor Relations which means that Unions have to get approval to be created. It's a shitty system all around.
Knowledgeispower
Ah I love the smell of missile spam in the morning
DARPA has made some rather useful replacements for the more traditional crowd control measures, alas none of them are really useful without a vehicle to move and power them. They're working on that part though. Moreover they are expensive
I disagree. First, note that the police unions sometimes endorse democrats as well, and pay dues to a super union, that usually funds democrats. Second, the existence of a union doesn't actually make cops more or less likely to vote republican, they are already quite likely to do so. Third, banning all public sector unions doesn't seem doable (sadly), so I'll take the winnings I can get.
Lanmandragon
Well-known member
Why should government employees get union rights serious question.
To argue against my point, workers in general should have a right to bargain collectively, out of the right to assemble. The reason that we abridge these rights in the case of government employees is that they is no way to get responsible negotiators against them.
Lanmandragon
Well-known member
With all due respect I didn't ask you. Random should answer on his own. Anyway my argument against public unions is as follows. A union in any private inustruy can only push so far before collapsing said industry. That limiting factor does not exist for public service union. This in my opinion they represent an unacceptable risk for society. Due to thier inherent lack of limits.
Arch Dornan
Oh, lovely. They've sent me a mo-ron.
In theory the same treatment as basic worker rights that other government worker unions have?
Lanmandragon
Well-known member
The issue with that is as follows. The majority of labor unions are constrained by what a given industry can tolerate. While "public service" unions are not so constrained
Due to the omnipresent natureof the state.
Arch Dornan
Oh, lovely. They've sent me a mo-ron.
The people already working in government jobs won't easily see it that way with the door already opened to lay the roots of public sector unions.
Lanmandragon
Well-known member
How they see things is irrelevant facts are facts. Public unions have no limits by thier very nature. This is the objective reality regardless of opinion.
Arch Dornan
Oh, lovely. They've sent me a mo-ron.
It's what allows them to flourish and cling to stay.
Unions are a guy who wants more than a fair market wage (which by definition he could get by quitting his job and getting another if he's not getting one already) getting together with a bunch of his friends to extort his employer by harassing anyone the employer tries to replace them with. When they were fighting against employers paying in company scrip it was different, or if your employer was also your landlord or the bank that held your mortgage, or if working conditions are unsafe, but laws have been enacted to cover actual abuses leaving nothing unions can be other than pure extortion rackets.
Well the Aurora, CO PD seem to be wanting as much shit as the Minneapolis PD:
The cops in Aurora have been shit for years, are hated by a lot of the residents of the surrounding towns, and have a history of unneeded uses of force/deadly force.
The cops in Aurora have been shit for years, are hated by a lot of the residents of the surrounding towns, and have a history of unneeded uses of force/deadly force.
This is just tragic. There needs to be a purge of bad apples from all police departments nationwide.
I just gotta say, Police Body Cams are a blessing by and large. It definitely helps protect the Cops more then the criminals IMHO especially considering the sheer amount of detritus you see they have to deal with on the daily...
There's some great channels that show some police corruption and incompetence but by and large, most of the encounters seem to be with the hysteric, intentionally retarded and obtuse, entitled and other lowest common denominator types that plague our society.
Hours of background viewing content! ❤️
There's some great channels that show some police corruption and incompetence but by and large, most of the encounters seem to be with the hysteric, intentionally retarded and obtuse, entitled and other lowest common denominator types that plague our society.
Hours of background viewing content! ❤️