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Versus Match Luke Skywalker vs Maverick

Sailor.X

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In this scenario we are pitting these two combatants against one another. Luke Skywalker (Star Wars) vs Maverick (Top Gun). The ROB are taking them from two points in their lives.

Scenario 1: Luke Sky Walker from a New Hope in his X Wing vs Maverick in his F-14 Tomcat
Scenario 2: Luke Sky Walker from Season 2 of the Mandelorian in his X Wing vs Maverick from Top Gun Maverick in his FA 18 Superhornet.
Scenario 3: Both of them are in a bar and are trying to out drink one another.

These are the rules of engagement.
1: Combat Ceiling limited to 50,000 Feet
2: Combat Speed is limited to Mach 2
3: Luke can't use any Force powers. Only the piloting skills of both combatants are allowed.
4: In the drinking match only hard liquor is allowed.

So which one wins each scenario and how?

Edit: A modification to the engagement ranges.

Each scenario will have a 10 miles starting range and a B version that starts at 60 miles. So for scenario on and scenario 2 you have two possible outcomes.

Edit 2. The X Wing has shields disabled in his fight.
 
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Hlaalu Agent

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The tech is so different...Maverick loses every engagement in the skies.

Maverick drinks Luke under the table...probably.
No, that is a complete unwarranted assumption. You cannot base performance on nebulous "tech-levels", you need to base it on *actual* performance. After all, the Ewoks did admirably against the Empire, and they were *Stone Age* civilization fighting a Type-II Civilization. So, as, I said we should actually compare their stats rather than just claim that the tech difference automatically means a loss. Remember that most sci-fi armies would be mauled by real world armies, because sci-fi writers tend to lack a sense of scale.

An X-Wing is far slower than an F-14, moving at 1,050 km/h at maximum while a Tom-Cat moves 2,485 km/h. So an F-14 is going to fly rings around the X-Wing, especially since the F-14 is built for atmospheric combat (and thus better at maneuvering in the atmosphere) and its top speed is just a shave above the limit (so little is theoretically lost). Further, the major advantage of the X-Wing is taken away. So it will run rings around the X-Wing, and probably the F-18 too (though the F-18 is 500 Km/h slower). And there is the advantage of more modern avionics, so the F-18 would have less of a tech disadvantage (if there is one in this field).

I honestly don't think with the long engagement ranges of modern jet fighters and the ww2-style engagement ranges of Star Wars fighters, Luke would be able to do much against Maverick, since he'd be able to pepper him from ranges in the low tens of kilometers to the high tens of kilometers depending on what missiles he is using. As long as he doesn't try to dog fight, which would put Luke in his natural element and the X-Wing isn't immune to Earth Ordinance; Maverick would win every time.

In a sense, think of this like putting those up-teched Spitfires against modern jet fighters. Does having all that technological advantage matter when you have a doctrinal disadvantage (modern air doctrine vs psueo-ww2 doctrine) and the opposition's technology is more "mature". Unless the X-Wing cannot be damaged by modern technology, I cannot see any conceivable way that Maverick would lose, and in the case where Maverick cannot shoot him down- Luke would win by pure attrition. So unless logistical issues are handwaved, Luke would win due to Maverick's plane using up all its fuel and crashing.

Say does anyone have the actual Calcs, beyond the speed info I quickly dug up? Because as far as I know, we are talking about a craft with an engagement range of under a klick fighting a craft with an engagement range in the tens of kilometers and the former winning. It just seems absurd to me.

This, in a sense, seems like the short story by Arthur C. Clarke, "Superiority"...
 

Agent23

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An X-wing can travel a distance from the Earth to the Moon in like under an hour and survive multiple atmospheric reentries and trips into orbit, and that is without even going into fluff like ICS and the standard SW canons.
The armor can obviously withstand micrometeorites and bigger, just by going by logic and visual evidence.
And that is without even mentioning the shields.
Nothing Maverick has can even scratch the X-Wing,a and we can always pull out the super-powerful energy weapons SW ships have.
Canonically it has intertia dampeners and can go to c fractional speeds since IIRC in one novel time dialation was a thing.

I think that a 10 year old can take out Maverick in this situation, wink-wink, nudge-nudge.


Then, we have the pilots.

Like was an interplanetary/galactic class of pilot going off by his abilities, and he is force sensitive.

Maverick is maaybee decent on Earth and not force sensitive.

Give them both starfuries and make them fight in space, and that might be a fair fight.
 

Hlaalu Agent

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An X-wing can travel a distance from the Earth to the Moon in like under an hour and survive multiple atmospheric reentries and trips into orbit, and that is without even going into fluff like ICS and the standard SW canons.
The armor can obviously withstand micrometeorites and bigger, just by going by logic and visual evidence.
And that is without even mentioning the shields.
Nothing Maverick has can even scratch the X-Wing,a and we can always pull out the super-powerful energy weapons SW ships have.
Canonically it has intertia dampeners and can go to c fractional speeds since IIRC in one novel time dialation was a thing.

I think that a 10 year old can take out Maverick in this situation, wink-wink, nudge-nudge.


Then, we have the pilots.

Like was an interplanetary/galactic class of pilot going off by his abilities, and he is force sensitive.

Maverick is maaybee decent on Earth and not force sensitive.

Give them both starfuries and make them fight in space, and that might be a fair fight.
Yet, the canonical speed for an X-Wing in the atmosphere is just shy of a Gloster meteor.
 

Agent23

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Yet, the canonical speed for an X-Wing in the atmosphere is just shy of a Gloster meteor.
Which canon?

Obviously whoever wrote that crap had no idea what thrust to weight ratio is required to break orbit.

An X-Wing should be able to go far faster based on observed results.

Worst case scenario, it can just fly up until the air is too thin for a regular jet engine to operate and at an altitude where friction will be less of a problem, then just snipe the jet with turbolasers and proton torpedoes.
 

Hlaalu Agent

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Which canon?

Obviously whoever wrote that crap had no idea what thrust to weight ratio is required to break orbit.

An X-Wing should be able to go far faster based on observed results.

Worst case scenario, it can just fly up until the air is too thin for a regular jet engine to operate and at an altitude where friction will be less of a problem, then just snipe the jet with turbolasers and proton torpedoes.
Checked Wookiepedia, and it is shared between both real and rat cannons. The same info is also on wikipedia. Checking the sources it is from "Starships of the Galaxy, Saga Edition" for OG, and "Star Wars: Ships of the Galaxy" for rat.

And what it should or what you think it should, doesn't mean shit. What matters is the actual cannon data or the on-screen showings and they are utterly abysmal. At this point you are just pretty much just making unjustified unwarranted inferences. If things worked like they "should", the Empire wouldn't be defeated by Ewoks. And the Stormtroopers would actually hit things besides random disposable rebels.

Unfortunately, it can't, since it is prohibited by the scenario. Also, I don't think that is supported by cannon, because the X-Wings act like ww2 fighters. And as I recall, their tracking devices suck, KEEP ON TARGET, KEEP ON TARGET!
 

Agent23

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Checked Wookiepedia, and it is shared between both real and rat cannons. The same info is also on wikipedia. Checking the sources it is from "Starships of the Galaxy, Saga Edition" for OG, and "Star Wars: Ships of the Galaxy" for rat.

And what it should or what you think it should, doesn't mean shit. What matters is the actual cannon data or the on-screen showings and they are utterly abysmal. At this point you are just pretty much just making unjustified unwarranted inferences. If things worked like they "should", the Empire wouldn't be defeated by Ewoks. And the Stormtroopers would actually hit things besides random disposable rebels.

Unfortunately, it can't, since it is prohibited by the scenario. Also, I don't think that is supported by cannon, because the X-Wings act like ww2 fighters. And as I recall, their tracking devices suck, KEEP ON TARGET, KEEP ON TARGET!
They have shielding, they can withstand atmospheric reentry on multiple occasions, they can travel the moon to earth distance in under an hour.
Visual evidence contradicts the wikis, and thanks to Disney we have multiple sources of canon data.
if you dislike the OP version of the calcs feel free to take it up with whoever wrote ICS.
 

Hlaalu Agent

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They have shielding, they can withstand atmospheric reentry on multiple occasions, they can travel the moon to earth distance in under an hour.
Visual evidence contradicts the wikis, and thanks to Disney we have multiple sources of canon data.
if you dislike the OP version of the calcs feel free to take it up with whoever wrote ICS.
Yet, in every appearance they act like ww2 fighters (or even bombers), you cannot escape it. Remember the battle at the Death Star is literally just Dambusters in space.

And by that metric visual evidence contradicts the absurd ICS calcs, you can't just pick and choose.
 

Agent23

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Yet, in every appearance they act like ww2 fighters (or even bombers), you cannot escape it. Remember the battle at the Death Star is literally just Dambusters in space.

And by that metric visual evidence contradicts the absurd ICS calcs, you can't just pick and choose.
Visual evidence says they routinely withstand stresses that should burn any modern day earth jet to a crisp, too.

As to the alleged poor sensors during ANH, well, the Empire obviously has countermeasures.

In ESB Luke's X-wing could do pretty thorough scans of Dagobah,just to name one example when the SW sensor tech has been demonstrated.
 

Bear Ribs

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What stresses? I don't recall seeing any heat blooms or friction coronas around any X-Wings in flight. They may simply use their anti-grav to come in so slowly they don't generate any re-entry heat, the reason our ships don't is that it's ruinously expensive in fuel.
 

Hlaalu Agent

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Visual evidence says they routinely withstand stresses that should burn any modern day earth jet to a crisp, too.

As to the alleged poor sensors during ANH, well, the Empire obviously has countermeasures.

In ESB Luke's X-wing could do pretty thorough scans of Dagobah,just to name one example when the SW sensor tech has been demonstrated.
Because, writers don't tend to have accurate scientific and engineering knowledge and many don't even care. Also, if
I am not mistaken aren't X-Wings built from similar materials as things such as the AT-AT and AT-ST which were defeated by hilariously primitive solutions? If the materials X-Wings were built from were really that strong, shouldn't that imply that AT-ATs would be able to surmount tow cables, and AT-STs surmount literal oversized logs?

And, yet they still do ww2-style dogfighting. If they could snipe things from range, why do they always fly in close range to attack?

If they had countermeasures, I'd be pretty sure the Rebel Alliance would make sure their pilots knew. Especially random farmboys that got experience blowing up vermin from their space-cropdusters. And just, because something "makes sense" doesn't mean it actually exists. Further the type of sensors used to analyze a planet, are not the same kind of sensors that are used for military use.

What stresses? I don't recall seeing any heat blooms or friction coronas around any X-Wings in flight. They may simply use their anti-grav to come in so slowly they don't generate any re-entry heat, the reason our ships don't is that it's ruinously expensive in fuel.
And, yes this. They either have anti-grav, or advanced engines for that purpose.
 

The Whispering Monk

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Tech matters.

Respulsors: allow some REALLY freeky maneuvers that Maverick will have no idea of until they happen.
Inertial Compensators: MORE freeky maneuvers that Maverick CAN'T duplicate b/c the G's would make him black out.
Shields: Nothing Maverick fires will get through them.
Hull Armor: Even if the shields take a hit, Luke has ARMORED equipment whereas Maverick's jets just get shredded. Lord help him when a Proximity fused torpedo goes off nearby...Maverick is hosed.
Laser Cannons: Despite what is shown on screen, these are light speed weapons. Maverick won't be able to dodge.
 

Hlaalu Agent

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Tech matters.

Respulsors: allow some REALLY freeky maneuvers that Maverick will have no idea of until they happen.
Inertial Compensators: MORE freeky maneuvers that Maverick CAN'T duplicate b/c the G's would make him black out.
Shields: Nothing Maverick fires will get through them.
Hull Armor: Even if the shields take a hit, Luke has ARMORED equipment whereas Maverick's jets just get shredded. Lord help him when a Proximity fused torpedo goes off nearby...Maverick is hosed.
Laser Cannons: Despite what is shown on screen, these are light speed weapons. Maverick won't be able to dodge.
If they were light-speed weapons, Jedi wouldn't be able to deflect or dodge their terrestrial versions.
 

Rhyse

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Yeah, blasters seem either shoot some sort of 'packaged' exotic particles, or are just straight up particle beam guns. They're clearly not laser weapons.
 

The Whispering Monk

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If they were light-speed weapons, Jedi wouldn't be able to deflect or dodge their terrestrial versions.
Jedi dodge b/c they know the attack is coming BEFORE the attack happens. Thus, they aren't there when the attack happens.
Yeah, blasters seem either shoot some sort of 'packaged' exotic particles, or are just straight up particle beam guns. They're clearly not laser weapons.
X-Wings are specifically stated to carry "4 Laser Cannons" NOT blasters.
 

Rhyse

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X-Wings are specifically stated to carry "4 Laser Cannons" NOT blasters.
Then that specification is either wrong, or 'Laser' in Star Wars doesn't mean light amplified by stimulated emission of radiation. Because we see X-wings fire their weapons, and they don't fire laser beams. They fire solid red bars that move at slower than light speeds.
2:20 Onwards

The films sort of leave us with three possible explanations
1) Blasters/Laser weapons in Star Wars are not firing coherent beams of light.
2) Space in Star Wars is filled with a medium that is affecting the way we see blasters, ala the way cherenkov radiation is visible through water
3) The entirety of the primary canon of Star Wars is unreliable, and cannot be used.

Of the three, I think 1 is the most useful.
 

The Whispering Monk

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Of the three, I think one is the most useful.
Might be, but I feel 3 is more likely...especially with Disney.

BOT!!
All I know is that EVERY piece of literature specifically differentiates when a weapon on a starfighter is a laser weapon or blaster. If that doesn't mean anything then the entire canon is useless for discussion.
 

Rhyse

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Might be, but I feel 3 is more likely...especially with Disney.

BOT!!
All I know is that EVERY piece of literature specifically differentiates when a weapon on a starfighter is a laser weapon or blaster. If that doesn't mean anything then the entire canon is useless for discussion.
Not at all, it just means that a 'Laser' weapon is something different from a 'blaster'. They both require - in theory - Tibanna gas, so it's possible that the designation is merely a description of how that gas is excited. A laser may simply be a blaster with an added lasing system to boost per shot power/accuracy/speed/other property. It could be that it functions like a theoretical electrolaser, where the laser acts as a guide for the blaster to let it hit harder/faster/etc.

I mean, the real answer is because 'Laser cannon' sounds cool, but ho hum.
 
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