I'm reading a biography now and so far (only up to 1939) and he was apparently very well liked in British upper classes. There I think was a falling out once he pushed appeasement after Chamberlain had abandoned the policy and then tried to get them to negotiate to end the war.
Board postings are sometimes worse than memory!@sillygoose - thanks.
I remember reading on some board at some time that sending Joe Kennedy to London had been a big mistake due to his Anglofobia.
Seems a boy should not trust neither his memory nor board postings
Dewey was a non-interventionist. He just started changing his tune in 1940 due to the Fall of France and Wilkie's challenge in the primary, but too little too late. He became an internationalist in 1944 having lost to Wilkie in 1940 over the issue of internationalism.
en.wikipedia.org
Yes indeed, I was just thinking he'd do the same thing ITL since becoming an internationalist would further distinguish himself from the isolationist JPK. 1944 Dewey notably campaigned more aggressively than he did in 1948 as well (in fact he thought he'd been too aggressive and overcompensated in the other direction next round, which historically was a huge factor in his defeat that year), so if the war(s) against Germany and Japan have gone badly for the Allies up to that year (possibly including the US itself if Japan still Pearl Harbors them at some point) I'd imagine he'd be beating that war drum really hard, or even basically accusing Kennedy of being a Fascist agent as he did with FDR and Communists.Dewey was a non-interventionist. He just started changing his tune in 1940 due to the Fall of France and Wilkie's challenge in the primary, but too little too late. He became an internationalist in 1944 having lost to Wilkie in 1940 over the issue of internationalism.
Thomas E. Dewey - Wikipedia
Wilkie won the 1940 primary due to being the most interventionist option in the Republican primary after Dewey couldn't get a majority in the floor vote.
Thing was that the GOP was isolationist in 1940 and it was only during the convention, when it was too late to really make a difference, that Wilkie was able to edge things out on a muted interventionist platform. Of course both he and FDR then tracked back toward an isolationist platform during the general election campaign.
I thought the Kennedy family fortune was built on smuggling booze during the prohibition - another misconception I must had picked up on the way?
That was the rumor, but no one has ever been able to prove it and several bios (and the family) claim it was false. Now him being a shady stock trader (not illegal at the time for some reason), that is true and in fact FDR made him the first chair of the brand new SEC to close the loopholes he used to get rich:
en.wikipedia.org
Given how sick FDR was when he ran for a 4th term (and that race accelerated his death) I think he'd have run if he was just short of bed ridden. Given too how poorly FDR ran his administration (he only met Truman twice before he died and told him nothing, as well as lied to and played off multiple cabinet members against one another) and had promised several people his support if they ran in 1940 only to run himself, I doubt he'd be in a position to dictate anything. Remember when he ran in 1944 the party strong armed him into taking Truman and dumped Wallace against his will, so it wasn't like the party leaders were going to blindly follow him. Plus it was tradition for the ex-president not to endorse any candidate in the primary. Certainly FDR could twist arms behind the scenes if he was up to it, but he had a lot of enemies in the party; if not for his relatively popularity with the public the party bosses might have prevented his run in 1940.
That was the rumor, but no one has ever been able to prove it and several bios (and the family) claim it was false. Now him being a shady stock trader (not illegal at the time for some reason), that is true and in fact FDR made him the first chair of the brand new SEC to close the loopholes he used to get rich:
Smart bastard, he shorted the market in 1929, put the money into real estate when price were rock bottom, and got rich AF:Joseph P. Kennedy Sr. - Wikipedia
Given how sick FDR was when he ran for a 4th term (and that race accelerated his death) I think he'd have run if he was just short of bed ridden. Given too how poorly FDR ran his administration (he only met Truman twice before he died and told him nothing, as well as lied to and played off multiple cabinet members against one another) and had promised several people his support if they ran in 1940 only to run himself, I doubt he'd be in a position to dictate anything. Remember when he ran in 1944 the party strong armed him into taking Truman and dumped Wallace against his will, so it wasn't like the party leaders were going to blindly follow him. Plus it was tradition for the ex-president not to endorse any candidate in the primary. Certainly FDR could twist arms behind the scenes if he was up to it, but he had a lot of enemies in the party; if not for his relatively popularity with the public the party bosses might have prevented his run in 1940.
The Catholic thing is a bit overhyped IMHO, especially given how easily an Irish Catholic was able to be not only accepted, but eagerly welcomed in British upper class circles upon his arrival and until he started to clash with Chamberlain after the Munich agreement fell apart. He was considered so upper class and accepted in the US power elite that it wouldn't have been the hinderance people claimed. I'm also pretty sure the big deal made of JFK's Catholicism later on was an election tool to get out the Catholic vote for him, since his socially liberal stance somewhat clashed with traditional US Catholic social conservatism.
As I said he would have been a dark horse candidate, as FDR had promised a few other people to back them behind the scenes, but that doesn't mean that he wouldn't have been the favorite, especially given that he was considered to be more conservative on economic issues than the other candidates and therefore more acceptable to the more conservative southern party bosses that were the core of the party at the time.
Churchill was the one who said the 'yellow' line. And yes he was a political rival.
I hadn't heard about the currency manipulation, but he did all sorts of shady stock speculation which wasn't actually illegal at the time. In fact he was the first head of the SEC which made illegal all what he did. As to the appeasement policy it seems he was basically a pacifist when it came to the situation in Europe and thought that war was the worst option and even if appeasement was flawed it was better than war; he was also anti-communist and I think convinced that war in Europe would result in a Communist take over of the continent.
I think you're right about the Nazis turning east and fighting a long war there if peace with Britain was concluded. Would Britain even do much beyond trading with the Soviets if they already made peace and were disordered as a result?
As to the situation in the Pacific I haven't come across anything about his position on that. I think he'd probably try negotiation and might even get Japan to back down somewhat, as apparently they were willing IOTL to offer major concessions to FDR, but FDR refused to accept unless he got total acceptance of his demands (i.e. leave the Axis, leave all of China, and sign non-aggression pacts with all Pacific powers).
He might, but he also made a number of enemies within the party, so assuming he was sick and unable to run again he might not be up to much and it would be people otherwise opposed to JPK who would go after him. He too made enemies in the press and public over his appeasement stance after 1939.
It seems he was socially well accepted; I don't think 1930s upper crust Britain was only accepting simply based on wealth. See the Wallace Simpson issue for instance.
Agreed.
Not sure Britain or the Soviets would be in any position to really help. IIRC the Brits had basically nothing to do materially for the Chinese by 1940. Same with the Soviets especially after they cut a deal with the Japanese.
Indeed.
However I'm thinking less some dirty tricks, although he might well know some secrets that Kennedy wouldn't want made public. More that given his massive popularity with the general population a public endorsement of a candidate would go a long way to making them the Democratic candidate. Possibly even more so a visually unwell Roosevelt making the effort to campaign to even a small degree on his selected man's behave. Personally the best option for the world would be something that devastated both leaving them exhausted and hopefully at least the Nazis collapsing as a result.
I never thought about the Simpson Affair from this angle but you probably are on the money here.
