Imperial Germany passes Home Rule for both Alsace-Lorraine and Posen Province

[WolfBear]

What if Imperial Germany passes Home Rule for both Alsace-Lorraine and Posen Province and then successfully implements it in both of these places? By "Home Rule", I mean something similar to what Northern Ireland and/or Scotland have nowadays. In other words, huge autonomy.

How much goodwill will Germany gain in these places by doing this and what would the effects of this have been on these places, on Germany as a whole, and on the rest of the neighborhood?

Thoughts on this? Any ideas?

 

[ATP]

What if Imperial Germany passes Home Rule for both Alsace-Lorraine and Posen Province and then successfully implements it in both of these places? By "Home Rule", I mean something similar to what Northern Ireland and/or Scotland have nowadays. In other words, huge autonomy.

How much goodwill will Germany gain in these places by doing this and what would the effects of this have been on these places, on Germany as a whole, and on the rest of the neighborhood?

Thoughts on this?

German option among poles more succesfull then russian in 1914.french from Alsace,all catholics,would prefer germans to France ruled by masons.
But,if germans still lose WW1 - Poland friendly to them,and Alsace full of people wonting germans back,if french masons decide to stomp on their freedom.
Later - Poland would join german crusade against soviets,soviets fell,german Europe.

Maybe better,that germans decided to be idiots ?

 

[WolfBear]

German option among poles more succesfull then russian in 1914.french from Alsace,all catholics,would prefer germans to France ruled by masons.
But,if germans still lose WW1 - Poland friendly to them,and Alsace full of people wonting germans back,if french masons decide to stomp on their freedom.
Later - Poland would join german crusade against soviets,soviets fell,german Europe.

Maybe better,that germans decided to be idiots ?

The butterflies from this might mean no Nazi rise to power in Germany.

BTW, Hanover would be another good candidate for Home Rule in Imperial German times since they frequently voted for autonomist and/or regionalist candidates:

 

[WolfBear]

The butterflies from this might mean no Nazi rise to power in Germany.

BTW, Hanover would be another good candidate for Home Rule in Imperial German times since they frequently voted for autonomist and/or regionalist candidates:

FWIW, in real life, Hanover got de facto Home Rule the end of World War II when a separate (West) German federal unit in the form of Lower Saxony was created:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lower_Saxony

 

[WolfBear]

@sillygoose Do you know if implementing home rule for places such as Posen, Alsace-Lorraine, et cetera would have been something that a politically dominant German SPD would have actually been interested in? Similar to the Irish Home Rule movement in Britain in the pre-WWI era, which of course subsequently got eclipsed by full Irish independence as a result of World War I.

 

[sillygoose]

Hard to say, since they never got the chance to formulate a position. They'd probably try to triangulate public opinion and army desires

 

[WolfBear]

Hard to say, since they never got the chance to formulate a position. They'd probably try to triangulate public opinion and army desires

Would the German Army have viewed home rule in Posen as a threat due to Posen's strategic location?

 

[ATP]

Would the German Army have viewed home rule in Posen as a threat due to Posen's strategic location?

Poznań,not posen.It was first city in Poland state with stone palace,where our rulers resided.
And yes,prussians would not let any autonomy there.They loved too much stealing our lands and beating polish children.

 

[WolfBear]

Poznań,not posen.It was first city in Poland state with stone palace,where our rulers resided.
And yes,prussians would not let any autonomy there.They loved too much stealing our lands and beating polish children.

When exactly did Prussians beat Polish children?

 

[ATP]

When exactly did Prussians beat Polish children?

most famous place - Września.Few even died.But,they still do not genocide us,or even enslaved,only made second-class citizen on our own lands.
When they do not have problems with genociding locals in Namibia.Well,we were whites,and prussians do not genocided white people.Pity,that germans during WW2 do not shared their sentiments.

And,since prussians considered law as real thing,they do not break their own laws to prosecute us - which was not problem for russians.
That is why poles,after 123 years of partition,were stronger and better organized under prussians then under russians.

 

[WolfBear]

most famous place - Września.Few even died.But,they still do not genocide us,or even enslaved,only made second-class citizen on our own lands.
When they do not have problems with genociding locals in Namibia.Well,we were whites,and prussians do not genocided white people.Pity,that germans during WW2 do not shared their sentiments.

And,since prussians considered law as real thing,they do not break their own laws to prosecute us - which was not problem for russians.
That is why poles,after 123 years of partition,were stronger and better organized under prussians then under russians.

Yeah, it's quite interesting that Poles were even more hostile towards the Prussians than they were towards the Russians. And Yes, Germans and Prussians do appear to have been more legalistic relative to the Russians.

 

[WolfBear]

BTW, @ATP, economically, just how vital was Poznan for Poland?

 

[ATP]

Yeah, it's quite interesting that Poles were even more hostile towards the Prussians than they were towards the Russians. And Yes, Germans and Prussians do appear to have been more legalistic relative to the Russians.

Becouse germans,as cyvilized nation,was bigger threat.Russians could only send to Siberia and steal,prussians,if they have time,could turn us into germans.

BTW, @ATP, economically, just how vital was Poznan for Poland?

There is not Poland without Poznań and GreatPoland./Wielkopolska/

 

[WolfBear]

Becouse germans,as cyvilized nation,was bigger threat.Russians could only send to Siberia and steal,prussians,if they have time,could turn us into germans.


There is not Poland without Poznań and GreatPoland./Wielkopolska/

A fusion Polish-German identity would be interesting. It developed in Upper Silesia to some extent, IIRC.

You mean in a spiritual sense? As in, that Poland would be spiritually and culturally incomplete without these territories?

 

[ATP]

A fusion Polish-German identity would be interesting. It developed in Upper Silesia to some extent, IIRC.

You mean in a spiritual sense? As in, that Poland would be spiritually and culturally incomplete without these territories?

Nope,silesians were still poles.That is why they fought germans in uprisings after WW1.Commies persecutes them/they were catholics/,so many run to Germany pretending to be germans - but there were no such identity.

And i mean it in every sense.You could not have Poland without GreatPoland./Wielkopolska/
When prussians could have their state without it,not mention normal germans,like Bavarians.

 

[WolfBear]

Nope,silesians were still poles.That is why they fought germans in uprisings after WW1.Commies persecutes them/they were catholics/,so many run to Germany pretending to be germans - but there were no such identity.

And i mean it in every sense.You could not have Poland without GreatPoland./Wielkopolska/
When prussians could have their state without it,not mention normal germans,like Bavarians.

The Silesian Uprisings were primarily in the eastern part of Upper Silesia, IIRC. Largely in the part that was given to Poland after the end of WWI in real life.

BTW, any chance of a reformed and liberalized Imperial Germany that does not lose a World War ever allowing Poznan Province and Alsace-Lorraine to hold secession referendums similar to what the UK allowed for Scotland in 2014?

 

[ATP]

The Silesian Uprisings were primarily in the eastern part of Upper Silesia, IIRC. Largely in the part that was given to Poland after the end of WWI in real life.

BTW, any chance of a reformed and liberalized Imperial Germany that does not lose a World War ever allowing Poznan Province and Alsace-Lorraine to hold secession referendums similar to what the UK allowed for Scotland in 2014?

Every germany which win WW1 would be prussian,which mean no to both.Till they start another world war,lost it,and then both provinces would be free.

 

[WolfBear]

Every germany which win WW1 would be prussian,which mean no to both.Till they start another world war,lost it,and then both provinces would be free.

Would Germany actually be in a position to lose another World War if it won the first one, though?

 

[ATP]

Would Germany actually be in a position to lose another World War if it won the first one, though?

They would manage - by pissing all nations in Europe ,and making enemy of USA,too.You could trust them in that.

 

[WolfBear]

They would manage - by pissing all nations in Europe ,and making enemy of USA,too.You could trust them in that.

They'd need an Anglo-Russo-American coalition to go down, as in WWII. France won't be capable of fighting them due to its loss of Briey and Longwy as a result of its WWI defeat in this TL.