Immigration and multiculturalism news

[ThatZenoGuy]

I think that just pointing to muh biology as if higher melanin genes also give more violence and less intelligence is dumb.

You're being silly, people across the globe have radically different genes other than 'melanin levels'.
Yes, giving a Japanese person pitch black skin genetically won't make him hyper violent.

But guess what? Giving a sub-80IQ Bantu the most Aryan eyes and skin you've ever seen won't make him smarter. Skin color isn't the issue, what's BENEATH is the issue.

There's countless genes that increase or decrease mannerisms, intellect, personalities, and more. We've only scratched the surface of it all but the results are clear, some people are more violent than others, and by extension some groups of people are also more violent than others.

Nurture refines what is naturally present, at the end of the day nature dictates how something acts and becomes. At best you can hinder the development of certain traits but they'll always be there.

 

[mrttao]

I think that just pointing to muh biology as if higher melanin genes also give more violence and less intelligence is dumb.

1. if the ONLY difference between races was melanin genes, then you wouldn't have a problem with organ donors needing to be race matched. As the kidney has no melanin.

You are also assuming that sub saharan africans are the only ones who have melanin.

There are dark skinned asians, dark skinned native americans, dark skinned hindus, and so on and so forth. They are very genetically distinct.

2. as I said before. The entire debate on what % of it is genetics and what % is pure culture is purely an academic one.
At the end of the day, the crime rate is a fact.

Whether it is caused by 100% culture, 100% genes, 95%-5% mix, 50-50% mix, or whatever is pretty much irrelevant.
The end result is identical, avoid them like the plague.

I say academic, but ironically academics are utterly banned from ever touching the subject. So we can only go by each person's intuition based on their various understandings.

 

[ThatZenoGuy]

I say academic, but ironically academics are utterly banned from ever touching the subject. So we can only go by each person's intuition based on their various understandings.

That's something that bothers me, we're allowed to have indepth studies on every species' behavior and even have domestication programs for foxes and such.
But figuring out how different groups of people might differ in behavior? Oh heavens no! That'd be racist! Even though the scientific method doesn't give a shit about isms.
Didn't the guy who figured out DNA is in a double-Helix structure get some honors revoked because he dared to suggest there are genetic differences in intellect. Something that is observed in basically any species that has large diversities in populations (dogs, cats, birds, etc).

 

[LordsFire]

what if it is a non white person who does not want to live near blacks specifically due to crime statistics?
Is it also white supremacy when an asian person or an hindu to avoid living together in the "inner cities"? Or when japanese people do not want to grant visas to blacks to migrate into japan?

Also, whether it is 100% purely cultural or has a biological component... it is all academic. The fact is that the statistics are real.

Also, funny you would say "white nationalist" when black nationalists, hindu nationalists, jewish nationalists, chinese nationalists, japanese nationalists, native american nationalists and pretty much everyone OTHER than whites wants to have their own places and nations and be ruled by their own kind.

This obsession with being ruled over / replaced by foreigners is a terminal form of cuckoldry. A fatal mental disorder.

You have misunderstood me.

Whatever the cause of an area having a crime rate, wanting to not live there is only rational. Some reasons for it being high might even give you more reason to get out of there.

I was specifically arguing against the idea that propensity towards criminality is rooted in ethnic genetics/biology. That's the argument of a racial supremacist, one that there is strong evidence against, and that I will have no truck with. Back before the black family was largely destroyed, crime rates in predominantly black neighborhoods were nowhere near as high. Thomas Sowell shared a fascinating account of children of black soldiers growing up in communities around American overseas bases, and without the pressure of 'hood' culture, they had no greater propensity towards criminality than the other children of military families in such places.

Even if the difficulty of proving a negative, and especially controlling for all factors in sociological research, means that it cannot be definitively proven that the problem is entirely cultural and psychological rather than biological, it is at the least mostly cultural and psychological, and as such, should be dealt with in such a matter.

 

[Doomsought]

Thomas Sowell shared a fascinating account of children of black soldiers growing up in communities around American overseas bases, and without the pressure of 'hood' culture, they had no greater propensity towards criminality than the other children of military families in such places.

There is also an issue with many inner city neighborhoods being contaminated with lead. Chronic but acute lead poisoning in children both reduces their IQ and retards their ability to develop self control. Much like drugs, this acts as an accelerate for social problems like hood culture.

 

[mrttao]

That's something that bothers me, we're allowed to have indepth studies on every species' behavior and even have domestication programs for foxes and such.
But figuring out how different groups of people might differ in behavior? Oh heavens no! That'd be racist! Even though the scientific method doesn't give a shit about isms.
Didn't the guy who figured out DNA is in a double-Helix structure get some honors revoked because he dared to suggest there are genetic differences in intellect. Something that is observed in basically any species that has large diversities in populations (dogs, cats, birds, etc).

his name is James Watson
They first fired him over it, then later revoked all his honors.

 

[ThatZenoGuy]

There is also an issue with many inner city neighborhoods being contaminated with lead. Chronic but acute lead poisoning in children both reduces their IQ and retards their ability to develop self control. Much like drugs, this acts as an accelerate for social problems like hood culture.

This comes across like the 'magic dirt' theory.
"Why is there more crime in these areas? Could the people be different?"
"Nah, its the racist lead which suspiciously affects primarily 'minorities' and not the other people present"

It's like those endless hit-pieces about 'Climate change affects black people more!' 'Air pollution affects black people more' and so on.

How come Mr Chang, drinking the same lead-polluted water as Desquarious Washington, doesn't turn into a murderous psycho because someone bumped into his shoulder?

 

[mrttao]

You have misunderstood me.

Whatever the cause of an area having a crime rate, wanting to not live there is only rational. Some reasons for it being high might even give you more reason to get out of there.

I was specifically arguing against the idea that propensity towards criminality is rooted in ethnic genetics/biology. That's the argument of a racial supremacist, one that there is strong evidence against, and that I will have no truck with. Back before the black family was largely destroyed, crime rates in predominantly black neighborhoods were nowhere near as high. Thomas Sowell shared a fascinating account of children of black soldiers growing up in communities around American overseas bases, and without the pressure of 'hood' culture, they had no greater propensity towards criminality than the other children of military families in such places.

Even if the difficulty of proving a negative, and especially controlling for all factors in sociological research, means that it cannot be definitively proven that the problem is entirely cultural and psychological rather than biological, it is at the least mostly cultural and psychological, and as such, should be dealt with in such a matter.

With the current political climate, this is entirely your own anecdotal gut feeling. Because it is literally impossible to do any serious research on this without being cancelled.

Also, your logic is faulty. it is basically
> cultural component exists
> therefore biological component cannot exist
> and is also anathema

I would say it is pretty obvious that it is not 100% cultural and not 100% biological.
The question is where it falls. My intuition is that it is primarily cultural.
But I have the self reflection to recognize that my intuition is not scientific rigor.
And someone whose intuition is that it is mostly biology might be correct, whereas I am wrong.

But at the end of the day it is irrelevant.
Regardless of the ratio of factors affecting the outcome, you would want to avoid them.

 

[Doomsought]

This comes across like the 'magic dirt' theory.

Lead and Juvenile Delinquency: New Evidence from Linked Birth, School and Juvenile Detention Records

Founded in 1920, the NBER is a private, non-profit, non-partisan organization dedicated to conducting economic research and to disseminating research findings among academics, public policy makers, and business professionals.

www.nber.org

Research Roundup: Lead Exposure Causes Crime - Niskanen Center

Kids’ exposure to lead in topsoil, paint, and drinking water leads to large increases in antisocial and criminal behavior in the future; these behavioral effects are costly to those individuals and to their communities. Lead remediation is therefore a highly cost-effective crime-reduction strategy.

www.niskanencenter.org

 

[ThatZenoGuy]

Lead and Juvenile Delinquency: New Evidence from Linked Birth, School and Juvenile Detention Records

Founded in 1920, the NBER is a private, non-profit, non-partisan organization dedicated to conducting economic research and to disseminating research findings among academics, public policy makers, and business professionals.

www.nber.org

Research Roundup: Lead Exposure Causes Crime - Niskanen Center

Kids’ exposure to lead in topsoil, paint, and drinking water leads to large increases in antisocial and criminal behavior in the future; these behavioral effects are costly to those individuals and to their communities. Lead remediation is therefore a highly cost-effective crime-reduction strategy.

www.niskanencenter.org

"Experts say"
"Studies conclude"
"Science indicates"

Thanks to the replication crisis, we can't even trust scientific papers for objectivity.

 

[mrttao]

Lead and Juvenile Delinquency: New Evidence from Linked Birth, School and Juvenile Detention Records

Founded in 1920, the NBER is a private, non-profit, non-partisan organization dedicated to conducting economic research and to disseminating research findings among academics, public policy makers, and business professionals.

www.nber.org

Research Roundup: Lead Exposure Causes Crime - Niskanen Center

Kids’ exposure to lead in topsoil, paint, and drinking water leads to large increases in antisocial and criminal behavior in the future; these behavioral effects are costly to those individuals and to their communities. Lead remediation is therefore a highly cost-effective crime-reduction strategy.

www.niskanencenter.org

This does not, in any way shape or form, address anything zenoguy said.

racist lead which suspiciously affects primarily 'minorities' and not the other people present

Why is the lead racist and only affecting black people.

Don't get me wrong, lead contamination is horrible.
But it is also pretty rare and localized. and cannot in any way explain the crime statistics.

If you are looking at non genetic reasons. You should start with the family.
Demonrat policies have destroyed the black family. Causing an epidemic of single mothers.

 

[mrttao]

Lead and Juvenile Delinquency: New Evidence from Linked Birth, School and Juvenile Detention Records

Founded in 1920, the NBER is a private, non-profit, non-partisan organization dedicated to conducting economic research and to disseminating research findings among academics, public policy makers, and business professionals.

www.nber.org

Research Roundup: Lead Exposure Causes Crime - Niskanen Center

Kids’ exposure to lead in topsoil, paint, and drinking water leads to large increases in antisocial and criminal behavior in the future; these behavioral effects are costly to those individuals and to their communities. Lead remediation is therefore a highly cost-effective crime-reduction strategy.

www.niskanencenter.org

actually... do you realize that you just argued that blacks are more likely to be criminals not because of culture / society / etc.
But because you claim they are dumber, and blame said stupidity on pollution induced brain damage?

 

[Zachowon]

Family is a number one cause.
For instance, you have a white kid and a black kid.
The black kid is raised in a two parent household, dad works and mom is stay at home. Deep Christian beliefs, and they live in let's say high middle class suburbia.

Vs

Single mom raised white kid in a major urban city, living off welfare and a deadbeat job the mom has. Multiple guys in and out daily.

The white kid is more likely to commit crimes then the black kid I'm this situation due to how they grew up.

 

[ThatZenoGuy]

Family is a number one cause.
For instance, you have a white kid and a black kid.
The black kid is raised in a two parent household, dad works and mom is stay at home. Deep Christian beliefs, and they live in let's say high middle class suburbia.

Vs

Single mom raised white kid in a major urban city, living off welfare and a deadbeat job the mom has. Multiple guys in and out daily.

The white kid is more likely to commit crimes then the black kid I'm this situation due to how they grew up.

You would think that, but the statistics are actually so lopsided that you're basically just breaking even at that point.
IIRC you basically have to go the absolute poorest of Whites to have similar levels of crime as wealthy well-off blacks.

 

[mrttao]

You would think that, but the statistics are actually so lopsided that you're basically just breaking even at that point.
IIRC you basically have to go the absolute poorest of Whites to have similar levels of crime as wealthy well-off blacks.

The poorest whites have a father.

Demonrat policies managed to destroy the black family.
in 60 years they went from 13% single mothers to between 77% single mothers.

Liberals keep on saying that crime and violence come from "poverty".
If we just give muslims money or import them into our countries they will become upstanding non violent citizens because money == morality.
The more money you have, the more moral a person you are.
Naturally this is completely moronic and wrong.

... yet at the same time they also argue that money == evil.
this is one of the doublethink positions sacred to the woke cult.

 

[LordsFire]

With the current political climate, this is entirely your own anecdotal gut feeling. Because it is literally impossible to do any serious research on this without being cancelled.

Also, your logic is faulty. it is basically
> cultural component exists
> therefore biological component cannot exist
> and is also anathema

I would say it is pretty obvious that it is not 100% cultural and not 100% biological.
The question is where it falls. My intuition is that it is primarily cultural.
But I have the self reflection to recognize that my intuition is not scientific rigor.
And someone whose intuition is that it is mostly biology might be correct, whereas I am wrong.

But at the end of the day it is irrelevant.
Regardless of the ratio of factors affecting the outcome, you would want to avoid them.

You haven't addressed the points I've made, and are making a straw-man argument.

I know you can argue better than this, and if you're not going to bother, I'm not going to bother arguing it with you at all.

 

[mrttao]

You haven't addressed the points I've made, and are making a straw-man argument.

I know you can argue better than this, and if you're not going to bother, I'm not going to bother arguing it with you at all.

please do tell, where is the strawman?

And what point do you want me to address?

Your first point is to just dismiss those who disagree with you as "racists".
I addressed this by explaining your faulty logic.

Your second point is to repeat an anecdote by thomas sowell.
I addressed this by pointing out we are all just using our anecdotes.

Your third point is to say you can't prove a negative beyond any reasonable doubt. but we can tell that it is "at least mostly cultural".
which I addressed by pointing out that we can't really tell if it is mostly cultural or not due to the ban on research.

 

[LordsFire]

please do tell, where is the strawman?

Your strawman is here:

Also, your logic is faulty. it is basically
> cultural component exists
> therefore biological component cannot exist
> and is also anathema

This is especially obnoxious, as you later admit I don't actually use this kind of logic here:

Your third point is to say you can't prove a negative beyond any reasonable doubt. but we can tell that it is "at least mostly cultural".
which I addressed by pointing out that we can't really tell if it is mostly cultural or not due to the ban on research.

As to 'anecdote:'

Your second point is to repeat an anecdote by thomas sowell.
I addressed this by pointing out we are all just using our anecdotes.

If someone is trying to make a definitive claim 'X, not Y, is the cause of Z,' it only takes a single counter-example to disprove that definitive claim.

If the root problem was biological, then under no circumstances could you find a case where a shift in culture removed the problem. When certain scientists claimed it was impossible to break the speed of sound, it only took one flight that went faster than the speed of sound to prove them wrong.

Similarly, if there is a single case where you have a racially integrated community and there is no discrepancy in rates of criminality, that proves that it is, at a minimum, not primarily an issue of biology, because if it was, such community could not exist.

There is further supporting evidence in how communities of different ethnicities that have similar problems; single-parent homes, inter-generational welfare dependency, etc, also have high crime rates, but it only takes the one counter-example to disprove the claim.

Now, a discerning observer can say 'Perhaps in a sufficiently structured and disciplined community, a higher propensity towards criminality is suppressed to the point where it can no longer have a noticeable impact.' This is why I specifically addressed that while evidence shows the issue is primarily cultural, a biological element cannot 100% be ruled out.

And to be fair to you, the toxic political environment around such research is exactly the reason that more detailed research can't be done on the issue. But at the same time, this also means that no further evidence supporting the idea 'it's inextricable to biology' can't be done either, and the current weight of evidence is very clearly against such an idea.

 

[King Arts]

This comes across like the 'magic dirt' theory.
"Why is there more crime in these areas? Could the people be different?"
"Nah, its the racist lead which suspiciously affects primarily 'minorities' and not the other people present"

It's like those endless hit-pieces about 'Climate change affects black people more!' 'Air pollution affects black people more' and so on.

How come Mr Chang, drinking the same lead-polluted water as Desquarious Washington, doesn't turn into a murderous psycho because someone bumped into his shoulder?

It could be the incest issue I brought up.

 

[ThatZenoGuy]

It could be the incest issue I brought up.

9_6 Oh great now blacks are basically the hills have eyes?