Immigration and multiculturalism news

[Marduk]

.....Its America. It's a land built entirely off foreign people who moved in without the permission or willing acceptance of the original inhabitants, fended with the natives, but eventually left the land better off anyway.

And where are the native's countries now?
Are we still having the argument on whether this is a leftist talking point?

We are talking about immigration of third worlders as cheap labor, criminals and welfare system abusers, not being colonized by a space alien civilization on a completely different, higher level of development, which would also be bad in its own way, but this is more pathetic.

Countries are supposed to serve the citizenry, not "the land", are we druids now?

You mean decaying with recessions, low birth rate, and declining populations?

So the same as countries that have open borders, minus the riots, no-go zones, asylum seeker scams and terrorism?

It's more like accumulating dry wood. It CAN turn into a raging fire, but it's not inevitable.

Saudi Arabia, otoh, is doomed. It's like watching Russia in the early 20th century.

It is inevitable. If it doesn't ignite by accident, one of the many "interesting" actors on global stage will ignite it intentionally due to the opportunity it presents.

Then I will say nothing more on this topic. I don't think anything I say will matter.

Yes, forget this leftist bullshit, the sooner the better.

 

[LordsFire]

Are we really doing this? Denying the right wing's eternal obsession with "race mixing"?
Let's be serious here.

Yes, let's be serious here.

Which part was the KKK the militant arm for?

Which President screened 'Birth of a Nation' in the White House?

If you go and look at states that had laws against 'miscegination,' which parties controlled those states, and what party were the people who voted for it members of?

 

[SoliFortissimi]

And where are the native's countries now?

You're standing on it.

e are talking about immigration of third worlders as cheap labor, criminals and welfare system abusers, not being colonized by a space alien civilization on a completely different, higher level of development, which would also be bad in its own way, but this is more pathetic.

True, the criminals and malcontents need to be weeded out. I have always been in support of a stricter legal system that can remove the toxic elements from society.

So the same as countries that have open borders, minus the riots, no-go zones, asylum seeker scams and terrorism?

Nah, America and other lax countries have been growing while Japan and their peers decay and fall apart. Even Germany and Sweden have risen and risen fast, and their assimilation is TERRIBLE.

It is inevitable. If it doesn't ignite by accident, one of the many "interesting" actors on global stage will ignite it intentionally due to the opportunity it presents.

Not Inevitable. This has happened before, and it will happen again. The Hispanics will just assimilate with the US, one way or another, just like the Italians, the Slavs, the Germans, and the Irish did.

Which party was the KKK the militant arm for?

Which President screened 'Birth of a Nation' in the White House?

The Democratic Party, obviously. The Republicans were the ones that broke them. As for the second, Wilson?

Does it matter? We are talking about left-right views, after all, not Democrat-Republican views.

 

[LordsFire]

You're standing on it.

True, the criminals and malcontents need to be weeded out. I have always been in support of a stricter legal system that can remove the toxic elements from society.


Nah, America and other lax countries have been growing while Japan and their peers decay and fall apart. Even Germany and Sweden have risen and risen fast, and their assimilation is TERRIBLE.


Not Inevitable. This has happened before, and it will happen again. The Hispanics will just assimilate with the US, one way or another, just like the Italians, the Slavs, the Germans, and the Irish did.


The Democratic Party, obviously. The Republicans were the ones that broke them. As for the second, Wilson?

Does it matter? We are talking about left-right views, after all, not Democrat-Republican views.

The Democratic Party is the political vehicle for the left.

The Republican Party is the political vehicle for the right.

There are outliers, and 'establishment creatures,' but whenever a political wing in the US is actually enacting policy, these are the respective vehicles they use to do so.


There is not obsession with 'race mixing' on the right. There never has been, there never will. Not in America, anyways.

The idea that suddenly it stopped being a bugaboo of the left and started becoming an issue on the right is the same kind of lie as 'Nixon's southern strategy' suddenly flipping all the racist Democrats into Republicans. There is zero evidence that such a switch actually happened, there are zero policies put into political platforms, much less actually enacted into law, by the political right on such things.

The most that can be pointed to is old-school racists who were cast out of the political left trying (and failing) to latch onto the right, or being defined as 'alt-right' in spite of having entirely leftist political policies. An excellent example of this is Richard Spencer, who ultimately ended up voting for Biden anyways.

 

[SoliFortissimi]

The Democratic Party is the political vehicle for the left.

The Republican Party is the political vehicle for the right.

The left only became relevant in the US in the Gilded Age. Before that it was the right wing in the North (the literati and business classes) vs the rightists in the South (the slavers).

As I said earlier, I will say nothing more on this topic.

 

[Marduk]

You're standing on it.

No, it's the rebel colonial's state, the natives were put on reservations if you paid attention in civics or history.

True, the criminals and malcontents need to be weeded out. I have always been in support of a stricter legal system that can remove the toxic elements from society.

Still, if third world cheap labor is that great, why are third world countries not all "asian tigers"?

Nah, America and other lax countries have been growing while Japan and their peers decay and fall apart. Even Germany and Sweden have risen and risen fast, and their assimilation is TERRIBLE.

"Growing". Growing more miserable you mean. 99% of people have no reason to give a shit about GDP, GDP per capita and average person's purchasing power are far more important.
India has a huge GDP, yet neither the migrants nor pro-migration shills want to live there.
Are those migrant tent cities supposed to be a sign of great economic growth?
Because if so, then yeah, Japan and SK don't have those.

Not Inevitable. This has happened before, and it will happen again. The Hispanics will just assimilate with the US, one way or another, just like the Italians, the Slavs, the Germans, and the Irish did.

Delusional wishful thinking is not a virtue.
Assimilation in USA happened before political correctness, affirmative action, sat tv and other commonly available cultural connections to migrant original cultures and so on.
In fact the great irony is that what really got Germans assimilated fully is being treated with state supported suspicion and hostility in and after WW1.

When German Immigrants Were America’s Undesirables | HISTORY

Woodrow Wilson thought German Americans couldn't assimilate.

www.history.com

This is the total opposite of how the third world migrants are treated in western countries, and we see that in terribly ineffective assimilation, what a surprise.

All of this anti-German sentiment did two things. First, it motivated Anglo-Americans to push back against anything German. States banned German-language schools and removed German books from libraries. Some German Americans were interned, and one German American man, who was also targeted for being socialist, was killed by a mob.

Secondly, in response to this, German Americans began intentionally "assimilating" to avoid becoming targets. They changed their names to English-sounding ones, renamed German streets, and began to speak German only in private. In public, they spoke English.

As a result, most Americans descended from German immigrants don't speak the language or practice German cultural traditions (like beer after church on Sundays, which Anglo-protestants considered immoral). Rather, they have become part of the category of white Americans.

If you want the Hispanic migration to even have a chance of turning out like German migration, logically you would have to start treating it the same way.

 

[SoliFortissimi]

ill, if third world cheap labor was that great, why are third world countries not all "asian tigers"?

Because their governments and institutions suck, as does their culture. What the US gets are the people who are too good for their homeland.

"Growing". Growing more miserable you mean. 99% of people have no reason to give a shit about GDP, GDP per capita and average person's purchasing power are far more important.

...which is also growing? So what's even your point here?

India has a huge GDP, yet neither the migrants nor pro-migration shills want to live there.
Are those migrant tent cities supposed to be a sign of great economic growth?
Because if so, then yeah, Japan and SK don't have those.

Those tent cities need to go, but the immigrants need to stay. Someone needs to pick the almonds and clean the toilets, and native Americans are too rich to do so.

Delusional wishful thinking is not a virtue.
Assimilation in USA happened before political correctness, affirmative action, sat tv and other commonly available cultural connections to migrant original cultures and so on.

Then those need to go.

 

[Marduk]

Because their governments and institutions suck, as does their culture. What the US gets are the people who are too good for their homeland.

Who are their governments, institutions and culture made of?
The US get all the people who leave their homeland for whatever reason. Some countries even go out of their way to send their criminals and other troublemakers, like jihadis.

...which is also growing? So what's even your point here?

https://www.wsj.com/economy/u-s-incomes-fall-for-third-straight-year-7b8293c6

Those tent cities need to go, but the immigrants need to stay. Someone needs to pick the almonds and clean the toilets, and native Americans are too rich to do so.

Who can afford a house on picking almonds and cleaning toilets?

Why do the world's prime technological superpowers need cheap almond pickers for growing economies so much? Can't you build a robot for that? If not, maybe outsource that to some third world shithole, instead of outsourcing actual important industries.

Then those need to go.

Good luck pushing through China-North Korea style policy for migrants then.

 

[SoliFortissimi]

Who are their governments, institutions and culture made of?
The US get all the people who leave their homeland for whatever reason. Some countries even go out of their way to send their criminals and other troublemakers, like jihadis.

And those malcontents need to be filtered out. As for the former question, corrupt and incompetent people. Surely you would sympathize with people who are fed up of their corrupt and incompetent national government and want a better life?

https://www.wsj.com/economy/u-s-incomes-fall-for-third-straight-year-7b8293c6

After rising for decades upon decades.

Who can afford a house on picking almonds and cleaning toilets?

Who said it needs to be a proper house? Old immigrants used to live in some terrible tenements with equivalent pay.

Why do the world's prime technological superpowers need cheap almond pickers for growing economies so much? Can't you build a robot for that? If not, maybe outsource that to some third world shithole, instead of outsourcing actual important industries.

The joys of the free market, my boy. It still happens because it's profitable, and line must go up.

Good luck pushing through China-North Korea style policy for migrants then

An old American policy will do. The US is the model country for assimilating immigrants. After all, I'm quite sure almost nobody on this site is a descendant of the original Pilgrim Fathers.

 

[Grant Us Eyes]

The left only became relevant in the US in the Gilded Age. Before that it was the right wing in the North (the literati and business classes) vs the rightists in the South (the slavers).

As I said earlier, I will say nothing more on this topic.

You are actively, blatantly lying. The southern states were controlled pre-and post civil war by the Democrat party.

And before you say 'bluh bluh bluh muh party switch voting republican president' - yes, many Southern states did vote for Republican presidents post Civil War while having Democrat governors and democrat controlled governments.

You claim you're not a leftist yet you consistently spout off their talking points.

 

[SoliFortissimi]

You are actively, blatantly lying. The southern states were controlled pre-and post civil war by the Democrat party.

When did I deny it? Are you guys preprogrammed with anti-Democrat speeches or something, and don't really know how to respond to someone who isn't even talking about parties?

You claim you're not a leftist yet you consistently spout off their talking points.

Ah yes, leftist talking points like.....pro-law and order, pro-housing, pro-free trade, and anti-bureaucracy.

I'm practically a Bolshevik.

PS: it's kinda disturbing how I'm being branded a leftist purely because I made a crack at rightist paranoia about race mixing.

 

[LordsFire]

PS: it's kinda disturbing how I'm being branded a leftist purely because I made a crack at rightist paranoia about race mixing.

A claim you have still presented no evidence whatsoever in support of.

 

[Aldarion]

I am very Pro-Immigration, because free movement of goods and persons raises standards for EVERYONE as long as immigrants can be put to work and kept lawful. The far right ranting about race mixing and "they took our jerbs" is just something I find disgusting and stupid.

But this level of subterfuge about getting them into the country? It will NOT end well. Better not have immigrants than to risk societal conflict over it.

But it doesn't.

Free movement of goods raises standards for everyone. But immigration does not. It can only help if immigrants and the native population are culturally and biologically compatible. If they are not, it will lead to conflict and slow dissolution of society.

 

[SoliFortissimi]

culturally and biologically compatible

What is that supposed to mean?

 

[DarthOne]

What is that supposed to mean?

(looks at the West, the cultural clash between its native population and Middle Eastern and African migrants)

That.

 

[Marduk]

And those malcontents need to be filtered out. As for the former question, corrupt and incompetent people. Surely you would sympathize with people who are fed up of their corrupt and incompetent national government and want a better life?

How is it that in third world countries corrupt and incompetent people get all the positions of wealth, power and influence, and now you want the people with the same customs and culture in our countries?
Everyone in the bloody world wants a better life, it's just that some may want it at your expense because they aren't gonna get one otherwise...

After rising for decades upon decades.

And rising costs that aren't stopping.

Who said it needs to be a proper house? Old immigrants used to live in some terrible tenements with equivalent pay.

So make up your damn mind, either you treat migrants like crap, like certain countries in Asia and Middle East do, or you don't. If you give them rights, citizenship especially, then they will take that as a cue to vote in socialists and other shits.
For some its a feature, not a bug, but if you're not one of them, this is a predictable way to a fucking disaster.

The joys of the free market, my boy. It still happens because it's profitable, and line must go up.

The line of fucking socialist parties at the polls. It's only profitable with government facilitation, and a socialist state who foots the bill for the migrant's living expenses. It's a fucking scam on the whole country, and meaningless in the scale of economy, it's not fucking medieval Europe, farming is an afterthought for economies of first world countries.

An old American policy will do. The US is the model country for assimilating immigrants. After all, I'm quite sure almost nobody on this site is a descendant of the original Pilgrim Fathers.

You would have to pretty much abolish most of post-WW2 civil rights related legislation for a start, and you would also have to apologize to "racist far right" and ask them to help assimilate Hispanics the same way people did with Germans and Irish in history. As i said, good fucking luck with that. Otherwise, chill out with the immigration enthusiasm.

 

[SoliFortissimi]

How is it that in third world countries corrupt and incompetent people get all the positions of wealth, power and influence, and now you want the people with the same customs and culture in our countries?

Because in Western countries, the positions of wealth and power are held by relatively competent people. So as has happened since 1607, the immigrants will learn to function in the ways of the natives.

And rising costs that aren't stopping.

Blame Biden and Putin.

So make up your damn mind, either you treat migrants like crap, like certain countries in Asia and Middle East do, or you don't. If you give them rights, citizenship especially, then they will take that as a cue to vote in socialists and other shits.
For some its a feature, not a bug, but if you're not one of them, this is a predictable way to a fucking disaster.

I wish for them to be treated like any citizen in the same situation would. To be rewarded for honest work and punished for criminality.

The line of fucking socialist parties at the polls. It's only profitable with government facilitation, and a socialist state who foots the bill for the migrant's living expenses. It's a fucking scam on the whole country.

...agriculture?

You would have to pretty much abolish all post-WW2 civil rights for a start. As i said, good fucking luck with that. Otherwise, chill out with the immigration enthusiasm.

Don't be so dramatic. And I already said I'd rather have closed borders than societal conflict.

 

[Marduk]

Because in Western countries, the positions of wealth and power are held by relatively competent people.

Yeah, sure, and that's why we get third world terrorism and migrant tent cities, competence.

So as has happened since 1607, the immigrants will learn to function in the ways of the natives.

I think if you point at that part of world and history, it worked out in a completely different direction.

Blame Biden and Putin.

So where are the competent people in charge?

I wish for them to be treated like any citizen in the same situation would. To be rewarded for honest work and punished for criminality.

There is no political will to do that, especially not effectively. There are whole countries so shit that they would rather be in prison in America than live there, nevermind if they were criminals to begin with.

...agriculture?

Yes, look at what part of GDP is it for places like USA and Germany.

Don't be so dramatic. And I already said I'd rather have closed borders than societal conflict.

Good, then there you have it.

 

[Aldarion]

What is that supposed to mean?

Just look at literally every Western "diverse" country or city.

 

[ThatZenoGuy]

What is that supposed to mean?

To put it bluntly, humans from different areas of the globe have different genetics. This can affect their behaviors.
Their behaviors can affect their culture.
Their culture can affect others.
And enough people having a shitty culture fucks up all our lives.

Tl;dr
Look at Chicago and Detroit and ask yourself why Japan doesn't have their issues. Maybe just maybe the Japanese are culturally and biologically superior if you want a safe and productive society.