How “Normal” should Badass Normals be?

[CarlManvers2019]

This is one line of thinking I have regarding those who boast about certain characters being “human” in Scifi-Fantasy settings and capable of fighting and killing superhuman beings

It becomes increasingly questionable how you can consider the “Charles Atlas Superpower” types to be “Normal” when they can survive large amounts of blunt damage or bleed a lot and keep on fighting and even react and move with speed to counter those with a level of super speed

Or essentially they have an enhanced version of many ordinary physical abilities and skills

(Don’t tell me this is NOT an example of superhuman ability)

How long till they can be considered not too different from superhumans? Especially if they can survive the damage that would easily kill them in one hit or survive with great wounds to keep on fighting for prolonged periods of time

So, just how “normal” or “limited” should they be to be closer to regular humans and yet make it feel plausible that you can see how they survived so much danger and damage?

 

[Shipmaster Sane]

"Badass normal" is kind of weird. It's difficult to draw the line where something is supposed to be "mundane" i.e. real world possible, and something is supposed to just be "non magical" i.e. people in X universe just have a higher strength cap than ours.

Most of it comes down to people not doing their research or understanding what the human body is capable of.


But for an interesting example, look at Berserk: 99.9% of the people in the setting are regular earth humans more or less, but there are randomly dotted among them people with certifiably superhuman abilities, and people notice them and respond accordingly. Now there's occasionally a hint of a "supernatural explanation" on an individual basis but more often than not it's just "This is Boscogne, he's seven feet tall and can throw a man fifty feet, theres no magic in him". It feels intentional, in any case, rather than like an accident, because we see the normal humans remark on how out of the norm they are.

 

[Emperor Tippy]

Mostly it just comes across as stupid and/or the individuals being ignorant of what they actually are.

Badass normal really should top out at TV show main character special forces operative. Someone like, say, Jack O'Neill or Jason Bourne. They might push superhuman but not by much.

Peak Human should be, go down the list of World Records in various events and toss them all on someone who is also at least a MENSA level genius Fictional "peak human" is really "solidly superhuman". Being honest, most "peak human" should be things like X5's from Dark Angel or the like; genetic or limited cybernetic augmentation or limited magical augmentation to produce someone who is noticeably beyond "human" but doesn't really hit the levels of proper "superhuman".

 

[CarlManvers2019]

Mostly it just comes across as stupid and/or the individuals being ignorant of what they actually are.

Badass normal really should top out at TV show main character special forces operative. Someone like, say, Jack O'Neill or Jason Bourne. They might push superhuman but not by much.

Peak Human should be, go down the list of World Records in various events and toss them all on someone who is also at least a MENSA level genius Fictional "peak human" is really "solidly superhuman". Being honest, most "peak human" should be things like X5's from Dark Angel or the like; genetic or limited cybernetic augmentation or limited magical augmentation to produce someone who is noticeably beyond "human" but doesn't really hit the levels of proper "superhuman".

Currently on and off trying to finish Chronicles of Conan, series is set in the distant past of Marvel’s Earth-616

It’s kinda noted that when he uses more of his physical strength, he has to exert himself, particularly when he’s holding and pushing things away

Otherwise, guy can easily react to and hit hard many opponents even if pinned down by numbers

 

[Typhonis]

The Complete List of Badasses — Badass of the Week

www.badassoftheweek.com

Look through this.

 

[Bear Ribs]

Actual real-life badasses are, surprisingly, often ridiculously superior to "unrealistic" badass normals in fiction.

Audie Murphey's war exploits were so awesome Hollywood had to tone them down for an action movie. Simo Häyhä shot something like 500 enemy soldiers, then took an exploding bullet to the head and walked away. Magnús Ver Magnússon was able to do a 964.5 pound squat. Usain Bolt was able to run at 27 miles an hour.

Actual peak humans are kinda BS.

 

[CarlManvers2019]

Actual real-life badasses are, surprisingly, often ridiculously superior to "unrealistic" badass normals in fiction.

Audie Murphey's war exploits were so awesome Hollywood had to tone them down for an action movie. Simo Häyhä shot something like 500 enemy soldiers, then took an exploding bullet to the head and walked away. Magnús Ver Magnússon was able to do a 964.5 pound squat. Usain Bolt was able to run at 27 miles an hour.

Actual peak humans are kinda BS.

I’d like to see one of them dual wield claymores and be able to do it as an actual combat form instead of an art form

 

[Bear Ribs]

I’d like to see one of them dual wield claymores and be able to do it as an actual combat form instead of an art form

Don't believe what the Dungeons and Dragons weight charts with 50 pound swords tell you. A real-life Claymore weighs about five and a half pounds. They're actually not heavy enough to be hard to dual-wield for a strong person, they just have garbage balance and shape for that purpose. There are many martial arts that actually dual-wield weapons that are properly balanced for that use, like Krabi, Kalaripayattu, or a lost martial art used by Plains Native Americans that used balanced tomahawks.

 

[Shipmaster Sane]

Don't believe what the Dungeons and Dragons weight charts with 50 pound swords tell you. A real-life Claymore weighs about five and a half pounds. They're actually not heavy enough to be hard to dual-wield for a strong person, they just have garbage balance and shape for that purpose. There are many martial arts that actually dual-wield weapons that are properly balanced for that use, like Krabi, Kalaripayattu, or a lost martial art used by Plains Native Americans that used balanced tomahawks.

1. Dungeons and Dragons intentionally features superhumans with super human weapons, which makes sense considering it's based on mythology and early fantasy fiction like Conan and Tolkien. In myth you will find many weapons of dramatic scale.
2. The actual weapon charts in DnD are quite conservative with the weights. The Greatswords in the Players Handbook art for example are drawn like 40 pound behemoths but the mechanics oriented chart lists them as 8 pounds. Double the average historical example, but far more modest than in the actual depictions we see in the book.
3. Two five pound swords would be virtually impossible for anyone real to use at the same time, unless you're talking about just managing to hold them out a bit and spin in a circle.

Currently on and off trying to finish Chronicles of Conan, series is set in the distant past of Marvel’s Earth-616

It’s kinda noted that when he uses more of his physical strength, he has to exert himself, particularly when he’s holding and pushing things away

Otherwise, guy can easily react to and hit hard many opponents even if pinned down by numbers

I've always understood Conan as superhuman, the films and comics make it explicit at various times but I'm sure there was something in the books.

 

[CarlManvers2019]

I've always understood Conan as superhuman, the films and comics make it explicit at various times but I'm sure there was something in the books.

Guy could wrestle sapient apes

If that’s not a sign of even being slightly superhuman, I don’t know what is

 

[Bear Ribs]

1. Dungeons and Dragons intentionally features superhumans with super human weapons, which makes sense considering it's based on mythology and early fantasy fiction like Conan and Tolkien. In myth you will find many weapons of dramatic scale.
2. The actual weapon charts in DnD are quite conservative with the weights. The Greatswords in the Players Handbook art for example are drawn like 40 pound behemoths but the mechanics oriented chart lists them as 8 pounds. Double the average historical example, but far more modest than in the actual depictions we see in the book.
3. Two five pound swords would be virtually impossible for anyone real to use at the same time, unless you're talking about just managing to hold them out a bit and spin in a circle.

I've always understood Conan as superhuman, the films and comics make it explicit at various times but I'm sure there was something in the books.

Your tangent on my DnD comment is going completely off the rails here. It was meant as an aside joke to Carl Manvers believing you'd have to be superhuman to dual-wield them when swords aren't remotely as heavy as most people think, partly due to DnD (And armor significantly from A Conneticut Yankee in King Arthur's Court where people took Mark Twain's slapstick comedy about knights being unable to move and needing to be crane-lifted onto their horses seriously.)

 

[Guncannon]

John McClane is my standard for "Badass Normal". Having durability that would normally kill a person but still leaves the character damaged yet functional. They need to take a serious beating and still have a hard time getting back up.

So, just below Frank Castle/Bruce Wayne types who are clearly superhuman but are considered "peak human".

 

[Shipmaster Sane]

Your tangent on my DnD comment is going completely off the rails here. It was meant as an aside joke to Carl Manvers believing you'd have to be superhuman to dual-wield them when swords aren't remotely as heavy as most people think, partly due to DnD (And armor significantly from A Conneticut Yankee in King Arthur's Court where people took Mark Twain's slapstick comedy about knights being unable to move and needing to be crane-lifted onto their horses seriously.)

But you'd absolutely have to be superhuman to simultaneously wield two five pound swords, at least for any fair definition of "wielding" because of the isometrics involved.

And you just brought up DnD again as an example, which it isn't.

 

[Bear Ribs]

But you'd absolutely have to be superhuman to simultaneously wield two five pound swords, at least for any fair definition of "wielding" because of the isometrics involved.

And you just brought up DnD again as an example, which it isn't.

Or for heaven's sakes, I didn't ever use DnD as an example, I pointed out that it has given some people odd ideas on how much weapons weigh.

For Isometrics I pointed out that Claymores are poorly balanced for dual-wielding in my first post.

Claymores are unsuited to dual-wielding but that doesn't mean you have to be superhuman to dual-wield them, it means you have to be a moron because you're giving up one of the main advantages of the Claymore in favor of doing something else that other weapons do far better. It's like making a sword-based martial art where you never actually us the blade and instead only hit people with the pommel, it might kinda work but you're an idiot for doing that instead of choosing to stab with your sword and using a sap if you want to hit somebody in the head, not superhuman because you don't bother using the blade.

To a degree all melee martial arts involve dual-wielding to a degree, in that you have two hands and everybody will use both of them. For non-sport varieties this comes down to four options:

You're wielding a second weapon in your offhand.
You're wielding a shield (which you may hit a bitch with), cloak, lantern, or other defensive weapon in your offhand.
You're wielding the same weapon in your offhand as your main hand.
Your offhand is empty and aiding your balance, and is going to punch/choke a bitch if he leaves you an opening.

The areas this isn't true are mostly purely sport fencing and that's generally only the case because the rules forbid you punching your opponent or bringing a dagger along.