History Happy Columbus Day!!!

Husky_Khan

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On this day over five hundred years ago, a swarthy Italian on behalf of the Castilian crown led three ships across the Atlantic on a journey of exploration to find a Western route to the Indies (China and India etc) but instead bumped into a whole new Hemisphere worth of previously undiscovered landmass inhabited by millions of people.

What is now known as Columbus Day might be one of the most important days in Human History and one would be hard pressed to find another single day in Human history that led to a greater impact on Humanity.

There's also the fact that what Columbus and the expedition he led accomplished. It was an incredible achievement of exploration. There have been numerous journies of exploration with even greater adversity but perhaps none that "discovered" so much plunging into the unknown.

Achievements like these deserve to be remembered and memorialized.

Also celebrating Columbus Day in no way downplays or ignores the ensuing suffering or genocide of Native Americans. It's a recognition of the achievement of Columbus Expedition which was extraordinary.
 
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ATP

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Well,true.Althought many historian tried to prooved that he was not italian.Most funny version - son of polish King Wladysław Warneńczyk,who faked his death during Varna battle in 1444.
And,of course,many other sailed to Americas before,but,since it changed nothing,Columbus should be considered as first anyway.
 

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Happy the European that discovered the New World last day. Eventhough. Native Americans. (Living there) The Irish (Saint Brendan), The Vikings (Lief Ericson) and Northern European Fisherman (Who were making catches of the coast of North America) Beat him by a few centuries. Really the Columbus discovering America first myth needs to die and die hard. Europe already knew about the damn continent. But historical revisionism and all that jazz after Cult of Columbus in Europe started to write books.
 

Husky_Khan

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The fact that the Vikings obviously made landfall in North America first or that the Americas were already inhabited by millions of Natives in no way tangibly diminishes the accomplishment or impact of the discoveries and achievements of the Columbus Expeditions.

The St. Brendan thing can't be corroborated and if it did happen, it was like a millenia before Columbus' Voyage. The other theory of Northern European (or Basque) fisherman both fishing off of the coast of North America and/or contacting the indigenous people has no corroboration AFAIK. Then again, the common retort to that is obviously the fishermen wanted to keep the fishing spot a secret, and thus it can't be readily disproven as a negative. This would also partially invalidate King Henry VII's sponsorship of John Cabot's voyages to North America a few years after the Columbus Expeditions.

I'm not sure to what end the 'Cult of Columbus' would have in revising history. Christopher Columbus was a controversial figure even in his day (he was stranded on what would be Jamaica for a year because of a rivalry with the Governor of Hispaniola, and had made plenty of enemies both in Castile and abroad (including Portugal) so I'm not sure if Columbus advocates could engage in such far ranging revisionism at the time.

There is definitely interesting research and theorycrafting in regards to how much Columbus knew of Iceland (which obviously was still inhabited) and if he was aware of Thule/Greenland and the Viking colonies that had existed there almost until the early 1400's potentially. But whether this was even known in the Mediterranean (especially since the printing press didn't come around til the 1430's) is the important question. I don't know for sure, but if it was known Greenland should've shown up in pre-1492 maps I would assume.

Even if Greenland was known however, or even the idea that there was land beyond Greenland, Columbus (and Portugal/Spain etc) weren't interested in more icy territory upon a trade/sailing route that had been abandoned since 1350 and the start of the Little Ice Age. They were interested in a passage to Asia. Plus ultimately, even if every other pre-Columbus discovery was true, it still does little to mitigate that Columbus' Voyage was the one that left a truly indelible impact upon Human history.
 

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The fact that the Vikings obviously made landfall in North America first or that the Americas were already inhabited by millions of Natives in no way tangibly diminishes the accomplishment or impact of the discoveries and achievements of the Columbus Expeditions.

The St. Brendan thing can't be corroborated and if it did happen, it was like a millenia before Columbus' Voyage. The other theory of Northern European (or Basque) fisherman both fishing off of the coast of North America and/or contacting the indigenous people has no corroboration AFAIK. Then again, the common retort to that is obviously the fishermen wanted to keep the fishing spot a secret, and thus it can't be readily disproven as a negative. This would also partially invalidate King Henry VII's sponsorship of John Cabot's voyages to North America a few years after the Columbus Expeditions.

I'm not sure to what end the 'Cult of Columbus' would have in revising history. Christopher Columbus was a controversial figure even in his day (he was stranded on what would be Jamaica for a year because of a rivalry with the Governor of Hispaniola, and had made plenty of enemies both in Castile and abroad (including Portugal) so I'm not sure if Columbus advocates could engage in such far ranging revisionism at the time.

There is definitely interesting research and theorycrafting in regards to how much Columbus knew of Iceland (which obviously was still inhabited) and if he was aware of Thule/Greenland and the Viking colonies that had existed there almost until the early 1400's potentially. But whether this was even known in the Mediterranean (especially since the printing press didn't come around til the 1430's) is the important question. I don't know for sure, but if it was known Greenland should've shown up in pre-1492 maps I would assume.

Even if Greenland was known however, or even the idea that there was land beyond Greenland, Columbus (and Portugal/Spain etc) weren't interested in more icy territory upon a trade/sailing route that had been abandoned since 1350 and the start of the Little Ice Age. They were interested in a passage to Asia. Plus ultimately, even if every other pre-Columbus discovery was true, it still does little to mitigate that Columbus' Voyage was the one that left a truly indelible impact upon Human history.
The Nobility only put major money into sending expeditions because of Gold. They knew about it because the Vikings being many things did not keep that fact secret. They were telling everyone and their grandma in Europe about North America. The Rich Royal Families just weren't interested because nothing in it for them other than some hostile Natives and Corn.
 

ATP

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Happy the European that discovered the New World last day. Eventhough. Native Americans. (Living there) The Irish (Saint Brendan), The Vikings (Lief Ericson) and Northern European Fisherman (Who were making catches of the coast of North America) Beat him by a few centuries. Really the Columbus discovering America first myth needs to die and die hard. Europe already knew about the damn continent. But historical revisionism and all that jazz after Cult of Columbus in Europe started to write books.
Probably also romans,carthaginians and other ancient sailors.But,since they never made colonies,it do not matter.
Olmecs leaved heads of black people and sculptures of white people,so they must be ancient sailors.But - again,nothing come from that in the end,so it do not matter.

But ,like @Husky_Khan said,Columbus started big changes, and that why we remember him.
 

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I still celebrate Thanksgiving, I guess. Like most holidays, it's a reason to get together with family. And with Natives, it was often feast or famine, so why not feast for a holiday if you can?

That being said, I would still piss on Columbus' grave if I could.
 

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@Sailor.X @Captain X @LindyAF

Columbus has been heavily blamed for many of the sins that followed long after his voyages.

Columbus left orders for his followers that were left behind on the 1st Voyage to treat well with the natives and trade for what was needed. When Columbus returned to the island and found the settlers dead, the Priest on board advocated for Columbus to lead his crew in killing all the natives. Columbus refused.

Columbus was good friends with a native chief and adopted one of the chief's sons as his own.

He did carry about 1/2 a dozen natives back to Europe when they wanted to go.
 

ATP

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Yep had he existed in the 20th Century people would have placed him in the same company as Mao, Stalin and Mussolini. The fact he did his dirt well over 400 years ago is why he gets a pass.
Not possible,becouse:
1.He was not genocider
2.Even if he was,it would not matter - he do not decided how indians would be treated,spanish kings did.
3Nobody could be as Mao,Sralin and Mussolini,becouse two commies were genociders,when Mussolini killed less then 1000 prisoners before 1943.He was good italian socialist.
 

Hlaalu Agent

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:rolleyes: Riiiiight.......
That is not an argument, if your only response to a legitimate point is to scoff and use an emoji, then your position probably isn't very strong. It is probably entirely based on emotion and not at all on reason. Not saying that basing things on your feelings is wrong, but those feelings need to be based someway on reason.
 

Captain X

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As if just claiming all the history I learned about that man killing and enslaving Natives is just entirely false on some forum is worth anything anyway, you're seriously going to talk down to me for scoffing at that? Yeah, totally just based on emotion and not on reported history. :rolleyes:
 

Hlaalu Agent

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As if just claiming all the history I learned about that man killing and enslaving Natives is just entirely false on some forum is worth anything anyway, you're seriously going to talk down to me for scoffing at that? Yeah, totally just based on emotion and not on reported history. :rolleyes:
No, it is false based on the actual historical evidence. You are repeating historical slander by Spain's rivals as fact, and of course modern day slander too.

What this really is, is you and other people trying to rain on everyone's parade, probably because you want to feel morally superior.
 
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