History Happy Columbus Day!!!
- Thread starter Husky_Khan
- Start date
More like call a club a spade. But could you show some respect for people who just want to enjoy their holidays without being hectored? There are much more appropriate places to have this discussion than to do so in a thread about people wanting to enjoy a holiday.
This is a public forum. Any conversation is open for people to join, if you want something private create a DM. Yes, and that is also a problem, someone had to bring something in that would cause a debac-I mean debate.
I am pretty sure you are the one who is whining, going on about how Genovese man is bad. I am just taking issue to you being a party pooper and spreading historical revisionist nonsense. Columbus probably is overrated, but he still had an important historical role and is considered a hero by many, particularly people of Italian and Spanish stock (or both). I am willing to end this if you are, and give you the last word.
No, this is me answering someone else's question. This is you butting in and complaining because you didn't like my answer. We have his own writings about his actions in the New World to incriminate him with, so don't be talking to me about historical revisionism. You are right about him having an important role, but he's hardly a hero to people of Native stock, which would include myself incidentally.
AnimalNoodles
Well-known member
@Captain X
You should really go back and look into Columbus yourself instead of taking other people's interpretations. I'm looking for a suitable link for you with a translation of his actual journal writings. I'll put it up if/when I find a good source.
You should really go back and look into Columbus yourself instead of taking other people's interpretations. I'm looking for a suitable link for you with a translation of his actual journal writings. I'll put it up if/when I find a good source.
With that said the exploits of Hanno and other Carthaginians and those of that era was impressive and worth reading up on. Seems likely that they reached around West Africa and even found exotic native females to bring back to their colonies.
Granted they were literal apes but still... 🙈
@Captain X
Wednesday, 2 January
I went ashore this morning to take my leave of King Guacanagari and to depart in the name of God.…
I have left thirty-nine men in the fort on this island of Española.… I have left them all the barter goods which Your Majesties ordered me to buy…so they can exchange them and barter for gold.… They have biscuits for a whole year, wine, and plenty of artillery.…
When I was ready to leave I gathered them all together and addressed them. I told them first that they should consider the great mercies which God has granted them and me so far, for which they should always give thanks; that they should put their trust firmly in His goodness and mercy, taking care not to offend Him.…
Secondly, I asked them and commanded them in Your Majesties’ name, as I trusted in their goodness and loyalty, to obey their [new] captain as they would obey me.
Thirdly, I told them to pay great attention and reverence to King Guacanagari, his caciques and…lesser dignitaries, and to avoid like death committing any annoyance or grievance towards them, considering all we owe to him and to them, and how important it is to keep them happy, remaining as the men are in his country and under his rule; that they should, indeed, make every effort to earn his goodwill by pleasant and honest conversation and to preserve his love and friendship.…
Fourthly, I ordered and begged them not to cause offence or injury to any of the Indians, male or female, and not to take anything against their will. I especially told them to avoid committing any insult or violence against the women which might cause outrage, or give a bad example, or bring us into disrepute among the Indians, who are sure that we have all come from Heaven and are ambassadors of the heavenly virtues.
[translation of Columbus’s Journal taken from John Cummins, The Voyage of Christopher Columbus: Columbus’ Own Journal of Discovery Newly Restored and Translated (New York: St. Martin’s Press, 1992)]
I went ashore this morning to take my leave of King Guacanagari and to depart in the name of God.…
I have left thirty-nine men in the fort on this island of Española.… I have left them all the barter goods which Your Majesties ordered me to buy…so they can exchange them and barter for gold.… They have biscuits for a whole year, wine, and plenty of artillery.…
When I was ready to leave I gathered them all together and addressed them. I told them first that they should consider the great mercies which God has granted them and me so far, for which they should always give thanks; that they should put their trust firmly in His goodness and mercy, taking care not to offend Him.…
Secondly, I asked them and commanded them in Your Majesties’ name, as I trusted in their goodness and loyalty, to obey their [new] captain as they would obey me.
Thirdly, I told them to pay great attention and reverence to King Guacanagari, his caciques and…lesser dignitaries, and to avoid like death committing any annoyance or grievance towards them, considering all we owe to him and to them, and how important it is to keep them happy, remaining as the men are in his country and under his rule; that they should, indeed, make every effort to earn his goodwill by pleasant and honest conversation and to preserve his love and friendship.…
Fourthly, I ordered and begged them not to cause offence or injury to any of the Indians, male or female, and not to take anything against their will. I especially told them to avoid committing any insult or violence against the women which might cause outrage, or give a bad example, or bring us into disrepute among the Indians, who are sure that we have all come from Heaven and are ambassadors of the heavenly virtues.
[translation of Columbus’s Journal taken from John Cummins, The Voyage of Christopher Columbus: Columbus’ Own Journal of Discovery Newly Restored and Translated (New York: St. Martin’s Press, 1992)]
AnimalNoodles
Well-known member
Yes, their exploits were impressive. A carthagian colonial empire down the coast of africa would make an interestign alt hist.
Don't be so quick to believe any writings pro anybody. If you remember not to long ago When Black People said Thomas Jefferson had sexual relations with one of his Slaves Sally Hemmings. Damn near every Historian and Conservative media type called it a lie. Only for them to be proven wrong by DNA. So yeah don't be so quick to discount what other people are telling you about someone you admire.
Actually it was wrong. It was NOT Jefferson's kid, but a sibling of his.
Actually sport you are wrong. DNA tests proved he fathered one of her children. They did more than one sets of tests.
@Sailor.X
Actually, we're both wrong. All DNA did was prove that Thomas Jefferson or any of his male relatives could be the father. NOTHING in the DNA definitively shows that Thomas Jefferson was the father of Sally Hemmings' children. It doesn't disprove it either. It's an answer we may never actually get.
Anyway, I'll stop derailing the thread. We can continue this elsewhere if you like.
Actually, we're both wrong. All DNA did was prove that Thomas Jefferson or any of his male relatives could be the father. NOTHING in the DNA definitively shows that Thomas Jefferson was the father of Sally Hemmings' children. It doesn't disprove it either. It's an answer we may never actually get.
Anyway, I'll stop derailing the thread. We can continue this elsewhere if you like.
True.When spanish created their empire,rivals start creating their black legends.And when protestants take power,they start making more fake news about bad papists.English or protestant sources are as "good" as soviet sources about USA.
Of course,spaniards were no saints - but not worst then french ,dutch or englisman.And Columbus were mostly free of guilt for their crimes,becouse he had little power over them,and personally did few things wrong.