(Halo) Spartan vs Astartes (40k)

Scooby Doo

Well-known member
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Physical stats comparison
Average Spartan II with GEN2 or GEN3 armor and without.

Versus

Average Astartes with Spacemarine armor and without.



Rules.
1) Have to cite source material/quotes
2) Spacemarine can not be a veteran (or Captain) or enhanced by a Relic/Artifact. HAS to be Vanilla, scaling is allowed but prefer quantifiable feats.
3) Higher end interpretation of Spartan is being used (Novelization speed overrides slower cutscene speed)




I've seen a lot of people saying Astartes stomp Spartans in stats but tbh I remain unconvinced. I think Spartans with 20 millisecond reaction speed base is pretty good but let's see what the SpessMahrines have.
 
So the issue with feats fir Space Marines is we always have named Marines making feats because it is often in the books about them.

But I should have the time tonight to scoure up those feats for ya
 
Spartans have great armor and abilities but their weapons will do jack and squat. That alone determines they lose. Now, give them some Bolters and they may have a shot.
 
Spartans have great armor and abilities but their weapons will do jack and squat. That alone determines they lose. Now, give them some Bolters and they may have a shot.

As powerful as 40k power armor is, bolter rounds seem to pass through very well, which I went over here:

Bolter Round Calcs

In short, a bolter round is probably between 12-16 kj in KE and certainly not higher than 27 kj. That is a lot of firepower, but the Spartans do have the M41, with its M19 HEAT rocket (Halopedia, M41 & M19 Articles). Assuming it works like the PG-7VL, it would have a warhead containing about 693.5 grams of HMX (Wikipedia, RPG7). From what I can gather, HMX is stronger than RDX and TNT, but I can't find by how much and I don't care to search for it. I do know that RDX is 1.5x more powerful than TNT (Toxological Profile of RDX, pg 2). That's 4.184 mj per kilogram for TNT and for 693.5 grams of RDX, we're looking at approximately 4.253 mj for an M19 HEAT.

That's approximately 161x more powerful than what a bolter round could offer and we know bolter rounds are capable of fairly easily defeating standard Power Armor. If you give the Spartans an M41 with 4-8 rounds of ammunition, he could possibly take out the whole group if his buddies can keep the enemy distracted long enough. What's great about the M41 is that it automatically cycles in a second M19, so a single Spartan could possibly take out two Space Marines in quick succession.

There's also the M99 Stanchion. The M99 fires a 5.4mm round at 15 km/s, carries 10 rounds, and is semi-automatic (Halopedia, M99 Stanchion). A bullet of around that weight is between 53-80 kilograms (Wikipedia, 5.45×39mm). At that velocity, the round would carry about 5.9 kilojoules of kinetic energy at the lower end. The M99 would arguably be far, far more dangerous than the M41, and a single Spartan would put it to good effect. I mean, given its KE, we're probably talking about combat ranges of around 1-2 kilometers, possibly up to 3 (Crist, pg 14). And it's not like Space Marines are small targets. I mean, they're what, 8 feet tall and typically brightly colored?

Then of course, there is the M6 Spartan Laser, which can solo most vehicles, so I expect that it would probably be effective against Space Marine armor (Halopedia, M6 Spartan Laser).


Bibliography
M41 SPNKr - Weapon - Halopedia, the Halo wiki
M19 missile
RPG-7 - Wikipedia
https://www.atsdr.cdc.gov/ToxProfiles/tp78-c5.pdf
M99 Stanchion - Weapon - Halopedia, the Halo wiki
5.45×39mm - Wikipedia
Crist, Stanley (1997), ARMOR
M6 Spartan Laser - Weapon - Halopedia, the Halo wiki
 
So I will start out with unarmored Marines so we get a general idea before we add the armor.

Vow of Faith
Dropping down fifty feet with no issues, guns are hilariously ineffective.
Fifty feet beneath him, the uninjured man was struggling to help his wounded comrade stagger forward, but the slick of blood that trailed behind them was enough for Garro to know that one of them would be dead in minutes. ...
Garro had seen enough. He stepped up and over the edge of the suspended walkway and dropped the distance to the deck below, hitting with the impact of a demolition hammer. The metal flooring flexed under the force of his arrival, putting the thugs and their would-be victim off their feet. The panicked believer was quick to recover, however, and scrambled away toward the gaping alley.
...
Garro took a step forward and met four bullets fired in quick succession by the gunman. The shots hit him in the chest and belly, breaking the outer layer of his epidermis but penetrating no deeper. He grunted with irritation and reached into each of the wounds with thumb and forefinger, pulling out the flattened heads of the kinetic rounds and flicking them away. Blood, thick with gene-engineered Larraman cells, was already clotting the trivial wounds.
The one with the gun was clearly an imbecile. Instead of putting distance between himself and Garro, he came closer, aiming the heavy pistol up to target the legionary's head.
Garro stepped in to meet him. With a lazy backhand, he smacked away the weapon, shattering the bones in the gunman's forearm. He could have left it there, but there was a lesson to be taught, and so he put what he considered to be a light punch into the squealing gunman's chest. The blow caved in the thug's ribcage, collapsed his lungs and stopped his heart.
The man covered in phosphor-glowing tattoos cried out the dead man's name, and turned tail and fled back in the direction of the marketplace.
The thug with the beard and the push-sword yelled and slashed at the air before Garro, attempting to force the legionary back with a wild, uncontrolled feint. He was trying to put Garro on the back foot, perhaps so he could extend away and flee as well.
The warrior watched the criminal's pattern, saw it, and in the next breath he grabbed the razor-sharp blade and yanked it forward. A seasoned swordsman would have let go of the handle, but the thug's best challengers had only been untrained civilians with no grasp of
bladecraft, and he had no more moves to make. Ignoring the distant sting of pain as the push-sword cut into his palm, Garro twisted his wrist and disarmed the bearded thug, the motion breaking fingers in his opponent's hand.

The blade fell to the deck and he stamped on it, the steel heel of his bionic leg snapping it in two. Garro reached out and grabbed the thug by the shoulder and squeezed, feeling bone grind on bone.
'You have made several mistakes,' he told the man, as he listened to him panting. 'And your path brings you to me.'
'Please…! Don't…!'
Garro shook his head. 'That time has passed.' He shook back the cuff of his robes and showed the man one of the sigils branded into his flesh, the device of a skull against a six-pointed star. 'You attacked a legionary. Do you understand that?'
The bearded man's eyes were wet and streaming. A patch of dark colour spread on his breeches as he soiled himself in fear.
'I want to know where they are.' Garro nodded in the direction that the surviving believer had gone. 'You know. Tell me.'
'Don't…don't know!' gasped the thug. 'Don't remember….'
'You do,' Garro corrected gently. He tapped the thug's forehead. 'Memory chains in your brain tissue. Either you access them…or I will.'
'What…?'
Garro put his other hand around the man's skull and slowly began to apply pressure. He would need to be careful, to crack the bone without destroying the soft organ inside. The warrior took on a gentle, lecturing tone. 'When the genesmiths made me what I am, they placed an implant in my belly called a preomnor. A stomach within a stomach, if you will. It allows me to ingest poison and toxics, subsist on edible materials that would kill any other living thing…'
A wet crackle sounded from beneath Garro's fingers, and the thug cried out in terrible pain, fruitlessly trying to peel the legionary's grip apart.

'Moreover,' he went on, as if this were instruction for some neophyte battle-brother, 'there is a second implant, the omophagea. Capable of separating genetic memory from ingested matter, if you can conceive of that.' He leaned close and looked the thug in the eyes. 'What I eat,' he said, with cold clarity, 'I take the memories from. Do you understand?'
The thug's cries became whimpers, and Garro knew that he did.
'One way or another,' said the legionary as he increased the pressure, 'you will tell me where to find the hidden church.'

Some speed/perception stuff:
With a growl of effort, Garro launched himself upwards and bulled his way through layers of the metal deck, forcing rusted metal outward until he crashed out on to the floor before the dais. He rose to his full height, his face set in an imperious glare, casting a cold gaze over the followers as they stood terror-struck before him. In the front rank there were eight people with short-frame Naval-issue beam rifles, and as one they trained their weapons on the giant that had risen into their midst.
Of the child who had raised the alarm there was no sign, nor could Garro see Kyril Sindermann. He guessed that the iterator had been rushed out of the chamber the moment the screaming started.
'Is that it?' said a frightened voice, from somewhere among the faces hiding behind the ranks of pews.
'First Salvaguardia and now here!' said another. 'He's come to kill us all!'
Garro raised his hand, but panic detonated like a bomb, and suddenly the crowd behind the followers with guns was fragmenting, some groups rooted to the spot, others flooding toward the hanging blackout cloths that were the entrance to the church.
The legionary read the faces of the believers before him and he saw the glitter of determination in the eyes of the one that would shoot first – a wind-burned woman with hair in tight black rows. Garro's right hand was already snapping back to the hilt of Libertas with transhuman speed, running to a clock that was far faster than any unaugmented response. His tactical mind told him that he could put down these eight with only two cuts of the blade, killing outright at least half of them and leaving the rest to bleed out in minutes. Without his armour, the concentrated las-fire of multiple rifles at close range could gravely wound him. A lucky shot might even end his life.
Vow of Faith again.

@The Original Sixth I was gonna do a bunch of quotes but the post is long and is a Calc from SB for ya to go over and compare to yours, based of multiple feats.
And I mean multiple
Post in thread '40k Source and Feats Thread' https://forums.spacebattles.com/threads/40k-source-and-feats-thread.235176/post-20913207

Flesh Tearer jumps from cloud level (their ship was shot down):
The winds caught Manakel as soon as he’d cleared the craft, whipping him down and across the belly of the Storm Eagle. Warning sigils flared on his retinal display as he slammed into the hull and drifted through the gunship’s engine backwash. Errant flame licked at his armour, burning away the parchments of litany and scorching the crimson plating black. He tumbled, blind, grimacing as he collided with the wing. The jolt threw him clear. He activated his jump pack. Nothing.

‘Mars be damned,’ Manakel cursed as the altimeter on his helmet display raced towards zero.

He boosted the jump pack again. The twin thrusters coughed, flaring once in defiance of the winds before stuttering and dying. Manakel continued to fall. A terminus rune filled his display as his armour’s cogitators predicted his death. Even encased in ceramite and the shock-absorbing membrane of his power armour, he was unlikely to survive the fall. Anger surged through Manakel, dragging a bestial roar from his lips. This was no way for a warrior to die. ‘Blood, grant me my vengeance.’ Manakel closed his eyes.
-
The clouds vanished, dissipating without warning.
and fucking lives (still in fighting form no less):

Pain dragged Manakel back to consciousness. It was an agony unlike any he had experienced before, as though his body had saved up every wound, every injury he’d ever sustained and revisited them upon him in that exact moment. Each breath brought with it more torment. He blinked hard, clearing his vision in an attempt to focus on the garble of tactical data and biometric readouts that shuddered across his retinal display. Frustrated, he tried to blink-click it away, but the nonsensical sigils remained. His helm’s cogitators were damaged. He activated his vox, wincing as wheezing static spat in his ear.

‘Useless machine junk,’ Manakel roared, spitting a raft of incoherent curses as he tore his helmet from its locking clasps and threw it away.

Growling, he pushed himself to his knees. Only then did he notice that Seraph’s chainsword was still clasped firmly in his right fist. He redoubled his grip on the weapon in an effort to crush the pain wracking his body. ‘It seems I’ll get to keep my oath, brother-sergeant.’ Manakel forced the words through a mouthful of saliva, a by-product of the pain suppressors, bio-nutrients and adrenaline his armour was pumping into his system. He spat bile-coloured phlegm from his mouth and loosened his grip on the sword as the cocktail of drugs began to ease his pain.

His other hand remained slack, his forearm broken at a sickening angle. Planting Seraph’s sword in the ground, he unfastened his vambrace and gauntlet, and took hold of his damaged arm. ‘The Blood grant me strength.’ Manakel’s face contorted in pain as he snapped the bones of his forearm back into alignment. The sudden sharpness of pain brought him a moment of relief from the rest of his injuries, which paled in comparison. Grimacing, he flexed his fingers. By the grace of Sanguinius the arm would heal before too long.

Grunting with effort, Manakel got to his feet. The servos in his armour echoed his struggle, whining as he rose.
-
Level three polytrauma, several sources of distress and multiple injuries... But his limbs were intact and functioning within combat efficiency; he had no need of an Apothecary.

The same wounded marine who fell from cloud level kills a horde of tribesmen:
A horde of barbarians, dressed in the same garb as the one he’d just slain, rushed Manakel from all sides. He counted almost a hundred as he brought up both arms to protect his face from the hail of spears flung towards him.
-
Spitting litanies of hate, the Flesh Tearer broke into a sprint, charging towards the largest group of attackers. He barrelled into them, smashing apart their formation in a violent instant. He shouldered men aside, smashed others from their feet with powerful backhands and crushed the fallen beneath his boots. Each punishing blow cracked bone and ended a life. Manakel was oblivious to their screams, unable to hear anything but the roar of his heart. He snarled, relishing the taste of the barbarians’ blood as it splashed across his face and washed into his mouth.
-
Picking up the bodies of the dead, he hurled them at those who tried to run. None escaped his wrath.

Bolt pistol blows up torso:
The sergeant snarled and stamped his boot down onto a wounded ork’s head as it tried to rise, crushing its skull into the ground. The other died to a burst from his bolt pistol, its torso coming apart even as it swung a rusted cleaver towards Asmodel’s neck.
And this is just flesh tearers.
I will get more mist likely tomorrow
 
Best case scenario for team Spartan: the Spartan nails the Spacemarine in the head with one of the crazier weapons like Spartan Laser and gets a shot through the eye plating.
Worst case scenario it's a giga-wank 40k marine who ignores a full magazine of AR fire to the chest without armor, then proceeds to break the spartan in half, WITH HIS BEAR HANDS.

Any other scenario is still heavily in favor of the Space Marine.
 
An Imperial Space Marine does have a pretty comical strength and size advantage over a Spartan II. And in-universe, those who see them in action think "something that big should not move that quickly or quietly."

Out of armour, a Spartan II can easily go fisticuffs with a team of special forces and kill a few of them by accident.

An Adeptus Astarte however can crush a man's skull with one hand. It would not be an easy fight, but the Angels of Death would prevail.
 
So I will start out with unarmored Marines so we get a general idea before we add the armor.

Vow of Faith


Some speed/perception stuff:

Vow of Faith again.

@The Original Sixth I was gonna do a bunch of quotes but the post is long and is a Calc from SB for ya to go over and compare to yours, based of multiple feats.
And I mean multiple
Post in thread '40k Source and Feats Thread' https://forums.spacebattles.com/threads/40k-source-and-feats-thread.235176/post-20913207

Flesh Tearer jumps from cloud level (their ship was shot down):

and fucking lives (still in fighting form no less):



The same wounded marine who fell from cloud level kills a horde of tribesmen:


Bolt pistol blows up torso:

And this is just flesh tearers.
I will get more mist likely tomorrow

See, I'd be inclined to take that more seriously if we didn't have plenty of evidence that suggests otherwise. I expect that they are fast. Very fast. Yet at the same time, I do not see them being so insanely fast that the Spartans have no chance against them.




Compare to say, Spartans




In regards to the durability that you mentioned, I don't see what that has to do with anything. All the weapons that I mentioned them using to take out a Space Marine are anti-tank weapons and far exceed the destructive power of Space Marine bolters (in terms of penetration).
 
See, I'd be inclined to take that more seriously if we didn't have plenty of evidence that suggests otherwise. I expect that they are fast. Very fast. Yet at the same time, I do not see them being so insanely fast that the Spartans have no chance against them.




Compare to say, Spartans




In regards to the durability that you mentioned, I don't see what that has to do with anything. All the weapons that I mentioned them using to take out a Space Marine are anti-tank weapons and far exceed the destructive power of Space Marine bolters (in terms of penetration).

Well this is the issue we have for 40k.
There will always be media that shows otherwise.
But we have more feats that surpass the animations.
I just don't want to currently dig through as I just woke up
 
Well this is the issue we have for 40k.
There will always be media that shows otherwise.
But we have more feats that surpass the animations.
I just don't want to currently dig through as I just woke up

I'm sure you do...but then again, I'm sure Halo fans could say the same about Spartans. None of what we saw from either side is really what I'd call embarrassing, it just they're not going to be fighting like it's an episode of DBZ. All things considered, the Space Marines are clearly stronger, more durable, but probably are less nimble than the Spartans. Simply because Space Marines are larger and bulkier.
 
I'm sure you do...but then again, I'm sure Halo fans could say the same about Spartans. None of what we saw from either side is really what I'd call embarrassing, it just they're not going to be fighting like it's an episode of DBZ. All things considered, the Space Marines are clearly stronger, more durable, but probably are less nimble than the Spartans. Simply because they're larger and more bulky.
I can get plenty of more speed feats for the Space Marines there is nothing but abundance.
I never even included the bolter dodging calcs and the like.
 
I can get plenty of more speed feats for the Space Marines there is nothing but abundance.
I never even included the bolter dodging calcs and the like.

I'm sure you do. The thing is, there's really no reason for me to take those book quotes over what we see in the animations. I mean, it's not like they couldn't have done the same thing there. The only one who comes close is the captain possessed by a daemon.

And on top of that, I have no assurance that this isn't slanted to favor Space Marines. I've only read a few books myself, but these feats are way higher than what's implied by other books. Specifically the Blood Raven game-book adaptions.
 
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I'm sure you do. The thing is, there's really no reason for me to take those book quotes over what we see in the animations. I mean, it's not like they couldn't have done the same thing there. The only one who comes close is the captain possessed by a daemon.

And on top of that, I have no assurance that this isn't slanted to favor Space Marines. I've only read a few books myself, but these feats are way higher than what's implied by other books. Specifically the Blood Raven game-book adaptions.
I also have the 40k canon policy on stand by as well.
So if needed I can post that.

But we have more quotes from books then we do animated references to use
So it would make sense that we go with the more common showing.
 
I also have the 40k canon policy on stand by as well.
So if needed I can post that.

Was it something like this?

40k Canon

That doesn't really help your argument for super badass, DBZ-style Space Marines who-don't-need-no-Emprah.

But we have more quotes from books then we do animated references to use
So it would make sense that we go with the more common showing.

So what? You're here trying to portray these hulking guys as if they're Goku, catching bullets with their bulky pecks and moving faster than the human eye can follow. Apart from a GW simp, do you expect me to simply accept what a book says, when I can point to MULTIPLE instances where these guys are simply NOT doing that? Especially when GW has already acknowledged that everything that is canon may not necessarily be true? Would it not be likely that someone recording the battle simply embellished the truth a little?

I mean, you're here honestly trying to persuade me that these guys can outpace a cheetah. Could you see why I might take that with a grain of salt?
 
Why is that so hard to believe? Super soldier enhancement combined with power armor that makes Stark-tech jealous.

Because they're massive 8-ft tall behemoths in power armor? Because even the fastest human can only hit 27 mph for short periods? Yet I'm supposed to believe they can outpace the world's fastest land animal despite only having two legs? Even a damn ostrich can't surpass 43 mph and it's got massive fucking thighs. Because no animation I've seen of them puts them any faster than a really fast human (which is itself impressive)?
 
Because they're massive 8-ft tall behemoths in power armor? Because even the fastest human can only hit 27 mph for short periods? Yet I'm supposed to believe they can outpace the world's fastest land animal despite only having two legs? Even a damn ostrich can't surpass 43 mph and it's got massive fucking thighs. Because no animation I've seen of them puts them any faster than a really fast human (which is itself impressive)?
The Adeptus Astartes were literally designed by the Emperor himself, right down to having a portion of his very genetics poured into them. These are not mere super soldiers, they are demi-gods of a stripe.

They are steel.

They are doom.

And if they want to run quickly, they will. Their superhuman bodies coupled with power armour that only enhances their physicality would quite straightforwardly enable them to do inhuman things.
 

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