Five minutes of hate news

[Cherico]

You don't seem to understand how ideologies work. Ideologies have beliefs. And if they constantly compromise on those beliefs, they stop being an ideology.

"Christians should compromise about Mohammed being a prophet if they want to attract converts" is a terminally dumb take. That's also the logical conclusion of you take.

No, what you do is you show the advantages of your ideology, then you work together with similar enough ideologies to get stuff done (this is what a political party is). The issue the Republicans had is that there's a mismatch in ideology between those who led the party and those who made up the base. Those in power kept compromising away until they were too far removed from those not in power.



Meanwhile, the left has gone insane. This has driven many dems into being more republican. The issue is that the conservative big tent political party is in the end stages of an ideological war, one the moderate/RINO/unipartiest have nearly lost (your last hope is if Trump loses, but even then you probably lost).

So given you don't actually have a moderate option, and people have radicalized, they don't need your help. You need their help, in fact.


If you actually think megadeath was a moderate, I got a bridge to sell you.

The day Megadeath left I played kool and the gangs celibration on a loop for 3 hours.

 

[SoliFortissimi]

Meanwhile, the left has gone insane

Mate, the Left STARTED off with the Reign of Terror. They haven't gone insane, because that implies they were ever sane.

If anything, it's a sign of progress that they aren't openly talking about how they want to kill us all.

You don't seem to understand how ideologies work. Ideologies have beliefs. And if they constantly compromise on those beliefs, they stop being an idideology.

Then it's a doomed ideology. Ideologies only succeed if they can propagate well enough to not get extinguished.

If you're right and no compromise or outreach is possible, then let's just give it up and resign ourselves to becoming slaves of our Communist Overlords. Meet you at the Gulag.

 

[King Arts]

Hardly.

There's a fine difference between say a business run by Americans that employs between 4 and 10,000 people locally, that's directly improving the local economy and servicing the local economy and providing jobs in that town/city/county.

Vs

a multinational run by "global citizens" with a lobby that has a budget bigger than most cities.

I was about to ask how do you define small businesses by the amount of revenue and profit they make? By number of employees?

Is a kid who operates his own lemonade stand a small business? How do you determine who the owner of a small business is? For a sole proprietor it’s easy but what if it’s a partnership? Is it only one vote for each small business or do all the owners get a vote. Hell what about corporations where you could have many many people who own shares?

 

[Cherico]

I was about to ask how do you define small businesses by the amount of revenue and profit they make? By number of employees?

Is a kid who operates his own lemonade stand a small business? How do you determine who the owner of a small business is? For a sole proprietor it’s easy but what if it’s a partnership? Is it only one vote for each small business or do all the owners get a vote. Hell what about corporations where you could have many many people who own shares?

If your operations are limited to the size of a city or a county your a small business. If you span an entire state your a medium sized company. If you play at the country level your a major business. If you play internationally your one of the big boys.

 

[Abhorsen]

Mate, the Left STARTED off with the Reign of Terror. They haven't gone insane, because that implies they were ever sane.

If anything, it's a sign of progress that they aren't openly talking about how they want to kill us all.

The democrats for a very long time weren't alienating their base by transing their children.

Then it's a doomed ideology. Ideologies only succeed if they can propagate well enough to not get extinguished.

Classic logical fallacy here: namely, a false dilemma. You can, in fact, have an ideology that spreads but doesn't compromise on it's core beliefs. You just need to convince people that the core beliefs work.

Again, you don't seem to know what an ideology is if you think compromising an ideologies beliefs is how an ideology survives. Instead, that quite literally kills the original belief.

If you're right and no compromise or outreach is possible, then let's just give it up and resign ourselves to becoming slaves of our Communist Overlords. Meet you at the Gulag.

Did I say don't do outreach? No, I didn't. I said that compromise wasn't how ideologies work. Don't put words in my mouth.

Your standing for nothing but political power ("compromise", excuse me) has meant that once the political power who's allegiance you swore started to change, you were left with nothing.

Meanwhile, actual conservatives, who just view the R's as their vehicle, were conservative when the party wasn't, and now that they control the party, will stay conservative, and when they don't, they'll still be conservative.

Same with me for my libertarian beliefs. I stick to those beliefs even when not popular.

Either stand on principle, or die empty handed. Your choice.

 

[King Arts]

If your operations are limited to the size of a city or a county your a small business. If you span an entire state your a medium sized company. If you play at the country level your a major business. If you play internationally your one of the big boys.

That doesn’t answer the questions.

So a company that is small in revenue and employees but has clients all over the world is a large business?

And a company that controls an entire city economy in multiple fields is small?

No again doing what immortal said is a bad idea it goes counter to what he wants which is small government. He would have to expand a government agency and give it a lot of power to monitor small companies and their owners

Giving this the power to regulate elections seems too much for me

Size standards | U.S. Small Business Administration

www.sba.gov

 

[ShieldWife]

Abolishing the 19th amendment wouldn't actually solve the problem anyway. Women voting isn't the problem, its credentialed people voting that's the problem. And credentialism in general, respect of the bureaucrat and worship of the academic is the bane of a robust society.

Strip the right to vote of anyone who doesn't own a small business or doesn't work a trade and society would automatically correct itself within a generation or two.

I don’t know, abolishing the 19th Amendment probably would help. Not just help the GOP win elections, but shift the Overton Window in a more reasonable direction.

Then again, if we’re taking away the vote, making it so that only white people can vote would probably be even better. We’ve probably all the the demographic electrical maps.

I don’t know about voting and credentialism. There are plenty of people who paid their dues to a corrupt system to better support their families and achieve success. Something does need to be done about higher education in the USA - their pier needs to be dramatically reduced, ultimately broken, which means that most people who go to college now shouldn’t be going.

 

[The Whispering Monk]

As in self-identifies as a moderate, and/or is a registered independent voter, or is a voter willing to vote across party lines without giving up party membership.

You know, most people not stuck in the fringes or establishment base of either party, and who parties have to convince to vote for them, instead of 'demanding loyalty' like much of the GOP wants.

Let me get a little more in depth than so I can understand better.
What beliefs would make a person a moderate?
In contrast, what beliefs make a person an extreme Rightist? An extreme Leftist?

You're basically screwed as an ideology if you insist that people should come to you rather than the other way around.

This is false, as evidenced by MANY historical ideologies that flourished without changing their beliefs. Others have covered this earlier.

If anything, it's a sign of progress that they aren't openly talking about how they want to kill us all.

Except, that's still a thing...

 

[The Whispering Monk]

Something does need to be done about higher education in the USA - their pier needs to be dramatically reduced, ultimately broken, which means that most people who go to college now shouldn’t be going.

Federal education department needs to be eliminated. It's a failure at every juncture. No standard has been set by them that have been able to meet. States need to be completely in charge of the public education system in cooperation with the local governments with FAMILIES determining what's best for their children.
Money should follow the student to whatever school they want to attend, even if it's homeschool.

 

[The Immortal Watch Dog]

I don’t know about voting and credentialism. There are plenty of people who paid their dues to a corrupt system to better support their families and achieve success. Something does need to be done about higher education in the USA - their pier needs to be dramatically reduced, ultimately broken, which means that most people who go to college now shouldn’t be going.

I think that was probably more true twenty years ago, in regards to paying your dues and corrupt trade unions than it is now. But I see your point.

In regards to white people, the issue with that its that white upper middle class left leaning women have of anglo-dutch descent have done more to destroy America than any other group.

I mean if you wanna go all celtoi-nat and proscribed everyone who isn't of Irish or pure Scottish descent but then you run into the fact that it was Scottish drug dealers who founded all those big banks everyone blames Jewish people for and its the Rockefellers and Mathesons of the world who spawned globalism.

Or that is to say vote/property ownership restriction along ethnic lines has never really worked outside of Japan and Jamaica.

And those are islands, shit just works weirdly on islands. It's seldom universally applicable.

 

[LordDemiurge]

Or that is to say vote restriction along ethnic lines has never really worked outside of Japan.

That's because Japan is actually closer in nature to what a democracy is supposed to be.

This is kind of why I think debates about democracy, liberalism and voting rights kind of miss the point

The fact of the matter is, we don't live under a democracy or a liberal regime. Does anyone remember 'freedom of association'? No they don't because that was criminalized in the name of anti-discrimination.

 

[Bacle]

That's because Japan is actually closer in nature to what a democracy is supposed to be.

This is kind of why I think debates about democracy, liberalism and voting rights kind of miss the point

The fact of the matter is, we don't live under a democracy or a liberal regime. Does anyone remember 'freedom of association'? No they don't because that was criminalized in the name of anti-discrimination.

So Rosa Parks should have gone to the back of the bus?

If that's the argument you want to make, you best be ready to deal with the fact that there is damn good reason the Civil Right Act passed and why we have a MLK Day, but no Nathan Bedford Forest Day.

 

[The Immortal Watch Dog]

So Rosa Parks should have gone to the back of the bus?

If that's the argument you want to make, you best be ready to deal with the fact that there is damn good reason the Civil Right Act passed and why we have a MLK Day, but no Nathan Bedford Forest Day.

Yeah bro, there's a big difference between a municipal transit official saying "get your ass to the back of the bus."

And a private business saying "no, I won't force my employees to wax your female testicle."

 

[LordDemiurge]

So Rosa Parks should have gone to the back of the bus?

No

This isn't Rosa Parks being allowed to keep her seat. This is Rosa Parks being given authority over who everyone else gets to sit according purely to her own feelings.

One is Rosa Parks being allowed to exercise her freedom to keep her seat. The other is blatantly authoritarian.

Edited: For brevity and phrasing.

 

[Bacle]

No

What I am against is the fact that the modern regime has abandoned equality of opportunity for equality of outcome driven by a deranged view that succcess always comes at the expense of the unsuccessful.

This isn't Rosa Parks being allowed to keep her seat, we are way past that. This is Rosa Parks being given authority over who everyone else gets to sit according purely to her own feelings.

There has been overreach by Marxists posing as liberals, this is true.

It is also true that 'freedom of association' had been used and abused badly by the likes of the KKK and Jim Crow laws.

So blame the KKK, Jim Crow Laws, and those who defended them/put them in place, for why the old style 'freedom of association' rules are not currently the law of the land.

 

[The Immortal Watch Dog]

There has been overreach by Marxists posing as liberals, this is true.

It is also true that 'freedom of association' had been used and abused badly by the likes of the KKK and Jim Crow laws.

So blame the KKK, Jim Crow Laws, and those who defended them/put them in place, for why the old style 'freedom of association' rules are not currently the law of the land.

So the progressive democrats.

The very same people who pushed for universal enfranchisement.

Hmmmmmmm...

 

[mrttao]

Federal education department needs to be eliminated. It's a failure at every juncture. No standard has been set by them that have been able to meet. States need to be completely in charge of the public education system in cooperation with the local governments with FAMILIES determining what's best for their children.
Money should follow the student to whatever school they want to attend, even if it's homeschool.

The states are pretty bad at it too. A lot of state are fully controlled by the groomers and fighting tooth and nail against the parents.

It should just be the parents only who control the schools.

There is a very simple solution. School vouchers.
Parents can choose any school the parents want.
And the school gets funding paid per student. A fixed amount of $ per student.

With parents being allowed to switch out schools instantly. And also lowering barriers to the creation of schools.

Heck, maybe even create a system for takeover of facilities. Like, if 90% of parents switch to a newly created school, then they can claim the existing facilities and kick out the previous leftover 10%

 

[Abhorsen]

So Rosa Parks should have gone to the back of the bus?

If that's the argument you want to make, you best be ready to deal with the fact that there is damn good reason the Civil Right Act passed and why we have a MLK Day, but no Nathan Bedford Forest Day.

You mean when the state refused National City Lines its freedom of association and forced the bus company to follow discriminatory laws?

Sounds like freedom of association would have solved this problem for Rosa Parks, had the company been able to offer it.

There is a very simple solution. School vouchers.

School vouchers do tend to work where they are allowed to work.

 

[The Immortal Watch Dog]

School vouchers do tend to work where they are allowed to work.

Getting rid of public sector unions via amendment would probably achieve the same result.

Granted it'd be a lot harder, but they're fundamentally anti free market and I'd argue lead to voter suppression. Government employees do not need more representation - they have more authority and representation than anyone else.

 

[mrttao]

Getting rid of public sector unions via amendment would probably achieve the same result.

Granted it'd be a lot harder, but they're fundamentally anti free market and I'd argue lead to voter suppression. Government employees do not need more representation - they have more authority and representation than anyone else.

Maybe... but it should be vastly easier to go:
step 1: voucher system
step 2: ban public sector unions
step 3: profit

instead of doing it the other way around.