Five minutes of hate news

[SoliFortissimi]

are issues with the influence of lobbyists and such, as well as term limit issues that are worth discussing.

I was speaking more about how Leftist agents keep provoking the lower classes against the tax paying classes. Thus creating a dangerous situation where politicians are incentivized to fan class conflicts to create a regime where the middle and higher are forced to pay high taxes without getting anything in return, not even safety, because the poor always outnumber the rich.

This is especially common in less advanced economies.

problem is the Left doesn't control it's raradicals

But at least for now, the Democrats aren't truly being controlled by the Left. Their relationship- at least for now- is more similar to the Reagan coalition. The bosses are manipulating the radicals like BLM or the Squad for votes, but the reins are in the hands of relatively moderate people.

Mind you, this isn't a status quo that's going to stay stable. You can't ride a tiger indefinitely. If the Democrat leadership thinks they have truly tamed these psychos, they'll learn different when their leaders start getting targeted for assassination by radicals who want to coerce them into turning more left.

Of course, those senile grifters will be down with Satan by then, so they roibably don't care. As always, we'll pay the price for our fathers' sins.

 

[The Whispering Monk]

Unlike the Dems, who have been very careful about keeping their radicals under control

the RNC has constantly given away political power to a tiny but fanatical minority of radicals

The RNC has been controlled by RINOs for the past few decades, and they gave their power to the Left, not to any radical right.

Which keeps driving otherwise conservative moderates into the maws of the Democratic Party.

Those 'moderates' were never actually conservative.

If America is being subverted by Leftist thought, the RNC and the Radical Right deserve much of the blame because of their ineptitude and insanity respectively.

Our problem was electing people who said the right things and then proceeded to give away whatever the Dems/Left wanted in 'compromise' legislation.

 

[SoliFortissimi]

Those 'moderates' were never actually conservative.

You have forever abdicated the right to mock leftists for their struggle sessions.

 

[Bacle]

If you say so, but that's like, your opinion man.

Allegedly over 50% of voting Americans believe that a pedophile with dementia is a good choice for leadership.

1) You have to prove to them he's a pedo; the GOP did not go hard enough on the evidence found in that regard, and so a lot of the US didn't believe the claims.

2) It's also possible that a large number of people who voted for Trump in 2016 did not in 2020, because he proved he was not competent at the job. So many may have simply wanted anything but another 4 years of dealing with Trump as POTUS.

I was speaking more about how Leftist agents keep provoking the lower classes against the tax paying classes. Thus creating a dangerous situation where politicians are incentivized to fan class conflicts to create a regime where the middle and higher are forced to pay high taxes without getting anything in return, not even safety, because the poor always outnumber the rich.

This is especially common in less advanced economies.

There are issues with that, for sure.

But there is no cure for 'people will usually vote themselves more money if they can', nor should there be, because both sides do it, just under different rhetorical headings.

If the GOP cannot put forward a better offering to the public, and cannot figure out how to stop shooting itself in the foot in media/PR messaging, then it doesn't take rigged elections for the GOP to lose ground.

But at least for now, the Democrats aren't truly being controlled by the Left. Their relationship- at least for now- is more similar to the Reagan coalition. The bosses are manipulating the radicals like BLM or the Squad for votes, but the reins are in the hands of relatively moderate people.

The Dems were being controlled like that, up till Oct 7th showed the massive fault line in the Dems that is the Israel/Palestinian conflict.

Now that it's coming out groups like BLM funneled money to Hamas and friends, and that some of the Dems radicals are the types who might be fine burning synagogues, the Dems 'coalition' is much weaker than they have been in decades.

Blue Dogs like Fetterman are also much more effective at pushing back against wokeness from inside the Dems, where it is slightly more effective than when the GOP does it.

Mind you, this isn't a status quo that's going to stay stable. You can't ride a tiger indefinitely. If the Democrat leadership thinks they have truly tamed these psychos, they'll learn different when their leaders start getting targeted for assassination by radicals who want to coerce them into turning more left.

I think the Dems were willing to ride the tiger, up till Oct 7th; after what Hamas did, and BLM's connections to them, the Dem base has new fracture lines in it that were not nearly so visible before.

Of course, those senile grifters will be down with Satan by then, so they roibably don't care. As always, we'll pay the price for our fathers' sins.

The grifters on both sides are what is really killing America, and the fringes usually are part of the grifters, because they need the grifting money to keep their fringe shit profitable enough to do marketing with.

Those 'moderates' were never actually conservative.

Maybe stop expecting moderates to become conservatives, instead of vote conservative when the Right appeals to them more than the left.

The GOP needs moderates, not the other way around, and when the GOP shits on people for being 'moderates' instead of full-on conservatives, it shows why the GOP is incompetent at media and PR messaging.

I mean after all, you're just doing the same 'struggle session' purity spiral bullshit that drove moderates away from the Left when they did the same over Progressive bona fides.

The GOP has to convince moderates to vote for it, not demand they become 'conservatives' in order for the party to care about them.

Moderates have leverage over the GOP, not the other way around.

 

[ThatZenoGuy]

1) You have to prove to them he's a pedo; the GOP did not go hard enough on the evidence found in that regard, and so a lot of the US didn't believe the claims.

And I bet Epstein killed himself too eh? No proof he was murdered at all! Mmm hmm!

 

[The Whispering Monk]

You have forever abdicated the right to mock leftists for their struggle sessions.

Bullshit.

Maybe stop expecting moderates to become conservatives, instead of vote conservative when the Right appeals to them more than the left.

I get to vote on the President, 2 Senators and 1 Congressman. That's it. The RNC is who the right has to turn towards conservatism, and they are. Ronna McDimwit is gone, FINALLY, and the RNC will actually get behind Trump this time...I hope. Changing up the local game plan for voter registration et al.

What the RNC and Right need to do is actually engage the Left everywhere, not just in conservative/right leaning districts. We have to move into the urban areas and engage with everyone. Present an alternative to the Lefts' generational destruction of the family and minorities, their destruction of law.

 

[Bacle]

And I bet Epstein killed himself too eh? No proof he was murdered at all! Mmm hmm!

Dude, meme all you want, but that is the reality, that the GOP didn't go hard enough on the pedo accusations and the evidence of them in the Biden Diary.

Maybe stop thinking 4chan level arguments actually work in the rest of the world, and that you can just meme away any criticism of your rhetoric or actions.

I mean shit, even doing more to link Biden to Epstein (connections I have no doubt exist) would have helped, but the problem is it seems much of the GOP establishment leadership was compromised by Epstein as well, so didn't want to ring that bell.

I get to vote on the President, 2 Senators and 1 Congressman. That's it. The RNC is who the right has to turn towards conservatism, and they are. Ronna McDimwit is gone, FINALLY, and the RNC will actually get behind Trump this time...I hope. Changing up the local game plan for voter registration et al.

What the RNC and Right need to do is actually engage the Left everywhere, not just in conservative/right leaning districts. We have to move into the urban areas and engage with everyone. Present an alternative to the Lefts' generational destruction of the family and minorities, their destruction of law.

And how do you plan to make inroads in 'Leftist areas' without moderates who are friendly to the GOP?

The same moderates that get driven away by the purity spiral 'your not a real conservative' struggle sessions so much of the GOP seems to like to do (outside the populist Right, who seem to understand the value of moderates and the harm of ideological purity spirals).

The 'traditional' GOP likes to make lots of demands of moderates in order for them to even be allowed to speak as part of the Right, and doesn't want outside ideas, only affirmation of existing 'traditional' GOP rhetoric/goals/internal propaganda.

So long as the 'traditional' GOP is the group trying to do outreach, while shitting on moderates at the same time, the GOP will continue to be incompetently run and it's 'traditional' base will show they don't want a GOP that listens to anyone but them.

God I wish we had the 3rd party that was viable and not retarded, because the GOP frankly deserves to go the way of the Whigs.

 

[ThatZenoGuy]

Dude, meme all you want, but that is the reality, that the GOP didn't go hard enough on the pedo accusations and the evidence of them in the Biden Diary.

Maybe stop thinking 4chan level arguments actually work in the rest of the world, and that you can just meme away any criticism of your rhetoric or actions.

I mean shit, even doing more to link Biden to Epstein (connections I have no doubt exist) would have helped, but the problem is it seems much of the GOP establishment leadership was compromised by Epstein as well, so didn't want to ring that bell.

Whatever system in place is obviously designed to prevent the system from being destroyed. Ergo using their rules to beat them is like beating a chess player who can spawn as many queens as they want. Possible? Yeah maybe. Good luck with it though.

Don't we have literal pictures of Hunter Biden fucking one of his relatives and smoking crack? Somehow he's not in prison!

I guess he DIDN'T smoke crack, am I right?

Because reality isn't objective, it's just however we feel like it should be.

 

[LordsFire]

Too late,unfortunately. Unlike the Dems, who have been very careful about keeping their radicals under control,

'Under control.'

Over a billion dollars in damages just during the Summer 2020 riots, and dozens killed.

Gender activists given control of school curriculum, allowed to put porn in grade schools, and in some states outright banning anything other than 'gender affirming care' for people with gender dysphoria.

Weaponization of the FBI to treat parents who protest sexualization of their children as terror threats.

The Steve Scalise Shooting.


Do you consider this 'under control'?

 

[The Whispering Monk]

...snip...

It's so simple it's painful.

Go into those areas, and talk to the individuals there.

Develop plans to actually get govt out of the way so that families can succeed. Small incremental steps that move the needle a % at a time. Kinda like how Trump has impacted minorities by helping open up paths to success.

 

[Bacle]

Whatever system in place is obviously designed to prevent the system from being destroyed. Ergo using their rules to beat them is like beating a chess player who can spawn as many queens as they want. Possible? Yeah maybe. Good luck with it though.

Don't we have literal pictures of Hunter Biden fucking one of his relatives and smoking crack? Somehow he's not in prison!

I guess he DIDN'T smoke crack, am I right?

Because reality isn't objective, it's just however we feel like it should be.

Or perhaps not everyone wants to destroy the system, and would prefer to just make it run better for themselves.

And regardless of what Hunter did (and I believe he did a lot), that doesn't change that the GOP is shite at media messaging and PR.

Deal with the electorate you have, not the electorate you wish you had.

It's so simple it's painful.

Go into those areas, and talk to the individuals there.

Develop plans to actually get govt out of the way so that families can succeed. Small incremental steps that move the needle a % at a time. Kinda like how Trump has impacted minorities by helping open up paths to success.

And none of that works without moderates onboard, which you keep dodging, and which Trump understood.

Demanding Moderates become conservatives, in order for them to matter to the GOP, is self-defeating.

The moderates have the leverage, not the GOP, and if the GOP wants to make inroads in traditional blue areas, sending in the fringes to do the outreach won't help anything.

But then again, I don't think the traditional GOP or it's base actually understand urban areas or blue areas very well, based on everything I've seen the past few years.

So go ahead, try to do outreach without moderates, and try to sideline moderates with the same struggle session BS, and see how well that does for the GOP.

 

[SoliFortissimi]

Do you consider this 'under control'?

Considering all these people are still voting blue, any Democrat leader would reply with a cheerful "yes".

meme all you want,

That's what a lot of moderate Conservatives fail to realize, and what many like me did. There's a vast and extremely significant fraction of Conservatives who are deeply unserious about politics.

They don't actually want to direct policy or accomplish any goals. They just want to meme and have struggle sessions over who's the Rightest of them all.

Online spaces make it worse. I believe you and (ironically) LordsFire are basically the only people on this site who I've noticed to favor serious debate over memes and kvetching. It's not much better on other spaces.

 

[The Whispering Monk]

Demanding Moderates become conservatives, in order for them to matter to the GOP, is self-defeating.

Hmmm..we may be talking around each other. Define 'moderate' please.

 

[Bacle]

Considering all these people are still voting blue, any Democrat leader would reply with a cheerful "yes".

That's what a lot of moderate Conservatives fail to realize, and what many like me did. There's a vast and extremely significant fraction of Conservatives who are deeply unserious about politics.

They don't actually want to direct policy or accomplish any goals. They just want to meme and have struggle sessions over who's the Rightest of them all.

Online spaces make it worse. I believe you and (ironically) LordsFire are basically the only people on this site who I've noticed to favor serious debate over memes and kvetching. It's not much better on other spaces.

Meme's are ways for easy Likes, for low effort attempt to actual debate an issue, and if they actually dealt with the issues seriously, they'd have to stop posting some dank, but completely inaccurate, memes and deal with things 'in the weeds' as it were.

You notice the serious 'conservative' debators/post are fewer and fewer around here, and how few real 'moderates' bother to even come by here anymore.

Like I seriously miss Megadeth and some of the other moderates who've left, and wish some of the more moderate parts of the GOP who frequent here would do more than lurk.

Hmmm..we may be talking around each other. Define 'moderate' please.

As in self-identifies as a moderate, and/or is a registered independent voter, or is a voter willing to vote across party lines without giving up party membership.

You know, most people not stuck in the fringes or establishment base of either party, and who parties have to convince to vote for them, instead of 'demanding loyalty' like much of the GOP wants.

 

[SoliFortissimi]

You're basically screwed as an ideology if you insist that people should come to you rather than the other way around.

 

[The Immortal Watch Dog]

You are a study in why the US should not allow 3rd world refugees in from either side of the political aisle, @The Immortal Watch Dog, and why the GOP is better off not listening to the loons it has sometimes atattracted.

You do realize the year I left Argentina the peso and the dollar were equivalent up until the month of December?

And that its GDP was growing faster than the US's and had a higher literacy rate?

Like Argentina is a third world country now.

At the time it was one of the wealthiest and most stable nations in Latam but go on- continue to prove my point.

And defending Zelensky at every opportunity shows how psyopped you are 🤣

 

[The Immortal Watch Dog]

And how do you plan to make inroads in 'Leftist areas' without moderates who are friendly to the GOP?

Shit all over the LGBT, especially the T.

No one hates them more than urban blacks, except maybe Muslim Americans. And most black people I know from the hood legitimately believe in MLKs "gay illuminati" conspiracy theory without any hint of shit posting irony.

Troons are as a great way to radicalize the House Wife. All you have to do is bring up the multiple pro troon rape camps run by public school systems and bammo you have a repeat of the Stanic panic only with idiots on tiktok boasting about how they violate kids with their female penisespremises.

Edit- tldr the right can smash away the urban monopoly by taking the festering wounds of division the left has created and turning it against their sacred cows. While promising justice and restitution.

 

[Cherico]

You do have representation, though, and the taxes do cover domestic maintenance and funding, as well as overseas aid.

Just because tax money is spent on things you do not like does not make it 'theft' or 'taxation without representation'.

Nope, I don't have the same bugaboo about taxes some people here do, nor do I think filing my tax info is some sort of defeat.
Taxes are part of civilization, part of a functioning nation, and no amount of AnCap memes or such will change that.

And you are proof just because a refugee minority is 'conservative', does not mean they don't come with their own bad ideas and biases from their homelands.

Then again, you also think Zelensky rapes kids, and other complete bulshit you will post up without a shred of proof, just because some fringe wacko said it at some point.

You are a study in why the US should not allow 3rd world refugees in from either side of the political aisle, @The Immortal Watch Dog, and why the GOP is better off not listening to the loons it has sometimes attracted.

those refugees were gleefully let in by the left in large numbers their children will run the right as will their right wing solutions, you will be forced to adapt and the left? Their going to have a very painful reconiting when the latin right take over and use their solutions.

 

[Bacle]

You do realize the year I left Argentina the peso and the dollar were equivalent up until the month of December?

And that its GDP was growing faster than the US's and had a higher literacy rate?

Like Argentina is a third world country now.

At the time it was one of the wealthiest and most stable nations in Latam but go on- continue to prove my point.

And defending Zelensky at every opportunity shows how psyopped you are 🤣

You claim Zelensky raped kids, put up or retract the claim, and I'm not going to let you forget that stupidity till you do one or the other.

And if you'd stayed in Argentina, maybe you could have helped Milie get into power, instead of making Trump's supporters look like lolcows while in the US.

Though I guess telling you to go home, if home is Argentina, is a little different now; you'd actually be going back to something close to what you want for the US anyway, so no need for you to make one for your homeland.

Kudos to Argentina for their recovery, and that is completely sincere.

those refugees were gleefully let in by the left in large numbers their children will run the right as will their right wing solutions, you will be forced to adapt and the left? Their going to have a very painful reconiting when the latin right take over and use their solutions.

I don't hold the faith in that progression of political views among that group, even if promising signs were seen in 2020.

You're betting too much on too small a sample size, I cannot make the same call at this time.

Though maybe Argentina unfucking itself will have a positive domino effect on LA and slowly undue a lot of the leftist damage if others make similar moves down there.

Shit all over the LGBT, especially the T.

No one hates them more than urban blacks, except maybe Muslim Americans. And most black people I know from the hood legitimately believe in MLKs "gay illuminati" conspiracy theory without any hint of shit posting irony.

Troons are as a great way to radicalize the House Wife. All you have to do is bring up the multiple pro troon rape camps run by public school systems and bammo you have a repeat of the Stanic panic only with idiots on tiktok boasting about how they violate kids with their female penisespremises.

Edit- tldr the right can smash away the urban monopoly by taking the festering wounds of division the left has created and turning it against their sacred cows. While promising justice and restitution.

The T's are a dividing line, however I think it needs to be one silver bullet in a whole ammo can of them, because some people have different 'single issue' focus's.

I would also caution against assumptions of what will work with any particularly subgroup of moderates, and recommend far more ground work and active research into whether some assumptions by the GOP or Right hold true in the political calculus of different subsections of moderates and minorities.

 

[Abhorsen]

You're basically screwed as an ideology if you insist that people should come to you rather than the other way around.

You don't seem to understand how ideologies work. Ideologies have beliefs. And if they constantly compromise on those beliefs, they stop being an ideology.

"Christians should compromise about Mohammed being a prophet if they want to attract converts" is a terminally dumb take. That's also the logical conclusion of you take.

No, what you do is you show the advantages of your ideology, then you work together with similar enough ideologies to get stuff done (this is what a political party is). The issue the Republicans had is that there's a mismatch in ideology between those who led the party and those who made up the base. Those in power kept compromising away until they were too far removed from those not in power.



Meanwhile, the left has gone insane. This has driven many dems into being more republican. The issue is that the conservative big tent political party is in the end stages of an ideological war, one the moderate/RINO/unipartiest have nearly lost (your last hope is if Trump loses, but even then you probably lost).

So given you don't actually have a moderate option, and people have radicalized, they don't need your help. You need their help, in fact.

Like I seriously miss Megadeth and some of the other moderates who've left, and wish some of the more moderate parts of the GOP who frequent here would do more than lurk.

If you actually think megadeath was a moderate, I got a bridge to sell you.