Five minutes of hate news

Rocinante said:
A slave can't fucking consent. If the slave's choices were accepted, they wouldn't even be there.

Idk anything about this Jefferson story, but having sex with your captive human is rape every time.

Even if she did develop empathy for him and chose to have sex with him, that'd Stockholm syndrome, because again, she is a slave. She is being held captive. It's still rape.
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Fuck that I disagree. That is stupid liberal bullshit, it's shit like this that the left wins, because even conservatives decide to follow what was taught in universities 10 or 20 years ago. Slaves can be raped if they don't want to and the master makes them do it against their will. But if they choose to engage with their master then it's consensual.

No "stockholm syndrome" or love it does not matter if she chooses to be with him, it was her choice.

Honestly with a stupid take like that you cheapen rape because now every absolute monarch is a rapist because he can kill his wife, or his lovers, or anyone else for any reason.

Abhorsen said:
Why throw out the constitution? Just because a person did bad thing X doesn't mean thing Y wasn't good.

The idea that someone did a bad thing, thus everything they touched is evil, simply doesn't reflect how people operate.
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Well why should we see the constitution as good? For example many conservatives treat it as a qusi religion document, if someone says something they will argue back. "That is against the constitution!" Well so, if something is good but is against the constitution it should be adopted and the constitution changed. Note I think like this and it is weird to me that conservatives see the constitution as this holy thing. I support the constitution because I think things like gun rights and other things are good, not because they are in the constitution.
 
King Arts said:
Fuck that I disagree. That is stupid liberal bullshit, it's shit like this that the left wins, because even conservatives decide to follow what was taught in universities 10 or 20 years ago. Slaves can be raped if they don't want to and the master makes them do it against their will. But if they choose to engage with their master then it's consensual.

No "stockholm syndrome" or love it does not matter if she chooses to be with him, it was her choice.

Honestly with a stupid take like that you cheapen rape because now every absolute monarch is a rapist because he can kill his wife, or his lovers, or anyone else for any reason
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WHICH IS IRRELEVENT BECAUSE HE DID NOT DO IT
 
DarthOne said:
WHICH IS IRRELEVENT BECAUSE HE DID NOT DO IT
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I'm saying EVEN IF he did have relations with Sally it was not neccesarily rape. He may or may not have had relations with Sally I don't know. But saying that if he HAD it is automatically rape is eye roll worthy. At that point you might as well go bow down to the radical feminists.
 
DarthOne said:
That's not my source, that's a guy commenting on the thread. :rolleyes:

Also, I disagree with him.
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That's what you linked to, man. For the rest of it, it's dubious. But sure, we can go with a key piece of evidence cited as to why it couldn't have been him, that Jefferson was very anti mixing of races. If he just believed that, why should he be taken as an authority when it comes to castrating gay men?

King Arts said:
Well why should we see the constitution as good? For example many conservatives treat it as a qusi religion document, if someone says something they will argue back. "That is against the constitution!" Well so, if something is good but is against the constitution it should be adopted and the constitution changed. Note I think like this and it is weird to me that conservatives see the constitution as this holy thing. I support the constitution because I think things like gun rights and other things are good, not because they are in the constitution.
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I totally agree here. This is exactly the tone to take, and the exact reasoning I have. I have issues with the constitution, but it mostly works and does good.



Look, the whole reason I brought that up is that Jefferson may not be the most reliable source of what sexual morality should be, despite being a founding father. That's all.
 
Abhorsen said:
That's what you linked to, man. For the rest of it, it's dubious. But sure, we can go with a key piece of evidence cited as to why it couldn't have been him, that Jefferson was very anti mixing of races. If he just believed that, why should he be taken as an authority when it comes to castrating gay men?


I totally agree here. This is exactly the tone to take, and the exact reasoning I have. I have issues with the constitution, but it mostly works and does good.



Look, the whole reason I brought that up is that Jefferson may not be the most reliable source of what sexual morality should be, despite being a founding father. That's all.
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Personally I don't think regular sodomy should be punished with castration. Only if there is something to bump up the severity like if it was rape, or if an older gay man groomed a young man into being gay. I don't know what the punishment for sodomy should be, I definitely don't think it should be allowed since the second it was legal we got the gay rights movement.

Though the punishment for gay rape should be harsher than straight rape, since homosexual rape is a worse act on the victim than straight rape.
 
King Arts said:
Personally I don't think regular sodomy should be punished with castration. Only if there is something to bump up the severity like if it was rape, or if an older gay man groomed a young man into being gay. I don't know what the punishment for sodomy should be, I definitely don't think it should be allowed since the second it was legal we got the gay rights movement.

Though the punishment for gay rape should be harsher than straight rape, since homosexual rape is a worse act on the victim than straight rape.
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Eh, I'd say that straight raping someone gay is equally bad to gay raping someone straight, with both of those being worse than rape that aligns with preferences, and all of it obviously shit.

I also worry that it would discount female on male rape, a rare but real thing that isn't treated with any seriousness despite its destructiveness.

But yeah, I agree with enhanced punishment for that.



The only reason I don't agree with castration/death penalty for rape is that I worry about false convictions. But if you catch'em in the act, death or castration + death is fine by me for all of em.
 
Rocinante said:
A slave can't fucking consent. If the slave's choices were accepted, they wouldn't even be there.

Idk anything about this Jefferson story, but having sex with your captive human is rape every time.

Even if she did develop empathy for him and chose to have sex with him, that'd Stockholm syndrome, because again, she is a slave. She is being held captive. It's still rape.
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Abhorsen said:
Look, all I'm saying is that if we accept Jefferson's slave rape as 'a product of his time' (and I'm not saying I do), then we certainly can't take his opinion on castration for sodomy seriously.
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facepalm

Thomas jefferson's friend wrote a will where his own half black half white children will be given to jefferson in the case of his death so that they would be protected. As jefferson promised to do.

Thomas jefferson never laid a hand on those.
One of those aforementioned slaves eventually ended up in a relationship with jefferson's cousin and had kids with him.
Thus there are now black people who are related to thomas jefferson. But they are not his descendants

Which MSM has been trying to claim are the result of jefferson raping slaves.
King Arts said:
Fuck that I disagree.
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that too
 
Abhorsen said:
Eh, I'd say that straight raping someone gay is equally bad to gay raping someone straight, with both of those being worse than rape that aligns with preferences, and all of it obviously shit.

I also worry that it would discount female on male rape, a rare but real thing that isn't treated with any seriousness despite its destructiveness.

But yeah, I agree with enhanced punishment for that.



The only reason I don't agree with castration/death penalty for rape is that I worry about false convictions. But if you catch'em in the act, death or castration + death is fine by me for all of em.
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I honestly was not even thinking about preferences that is another thing to think of.

No the reason I think that homosexual rape is worse is because it has all of the bad parts of straight rape when a man rapes a woman the woman feels dirtied, sullied, etc. the same would apply to when a man rapes a man. But when a man rapes a man there is an extra component there is a feeling of inferiority now you are less of a man, women aren't any less of women when they are violated. But a man could feel that they are no longer worthy of manhood once they are penetrated.
(I did not bring up religious reasons, I was trying to keep it all secular. Though that is another aspect where if a Christian, Muslim, or Jew is raped by a man then there is that whole stigma of the sin of sodomy.)
 
King Arts said:
I honestly was not even thinking about preferences that is another thing to think of.

No the reason I think that homosexual rape is worse is because it has all of the bad parts of straight rape when a man rapes a woman the woman feels dirtied, sullied, etc. the same would apply to when a man rapes a man. But when a man rapes a man there is an extra component there is a feeling of inferiority now you are less of a man, women aren't any less of women when they are violated. But a man could feel that they are no longer worthy of manhood once they are penetrated.
(I did not bring up religious reasons, I was trying to keep it all secular. Though that is another aspect where if a Christian, Muslim, or Jew is raped by a man then there is that whole stigma of the sin of sodomy.)
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The absolute worst thing about gay rape is all the STDs.

For example, of the HIV infected men in USA. 81% are gay.
www.hiv.gov

HIV & AIDS Trends and U.S. Statistics Overview

Learn the facts about how many people have HIV in the U.S., who is at the highest risk, and more.
www.hiv.gov www.hiv.gov

And HIV is just one of many different STDs you will get from being raped by a sodomite.
 
King Arts said:
No the reason I think that homosexual rape is worse is because it has all of the bad parts of straight rape when a man rapes a woman the woman feels dirtied, sullied, etc. the same would apply to when a man rapes a man. But when a man rapes a man there is an extra component there is a feeling of inferiority now you are less of a man, women aren't any less of women when they are violated. But a man could feel that they are no longer worthy of manhood once they are penetrated.
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Fair. I think that mostly applies to men though not women, and it applies regardless of who rapes them. Also, for an actual real problem that exists, I know that many places still don't consider Female on Male rape as legally rape.

Anyway, I don't really care too much as to who gets it worse, my universal answer to all is "life in prison, no parole", and if caught red handed, death (or castration + death).

mrttao said:
The absolute worst thing about gay rape is all the STDs.

For example, of the HIV infected men in USA. 81% are gay.
www.hiv.gov

HIV & AIDS Trends and U.S. Statistics Overview

Learn the facts about how many people have HIV in the U.S., who is at the highest risk, and more.
www.hiv.gov www.hiv.gov

And HIV is just one of many different STDs you will get from being raped by a sodomite.
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No. STDs are nowhere near the worst thing about rape. Those are dealable with pills (even HIV). The worst part is the emotional torment, wondering if you still are a man, if it's safe to be around others of your rapist's gender, etc.
 
Abhorsen said:
Look, all I'm saying is that if we accept Jefferson's slave rape as 'a product of his time' (and I'm not saying I do), then we certainly can't take his opinion on castration for sodomy seriously.
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Also Sally Hemings was between the ages of 14 to 16 during this intimate relationship which resulted in her first pregnancy as well. So if Jefferson wants people castrated for sodomy, I hope he has an even more stern punishment for pedophilia.

And it occurred in Paris before they returned to Monticello. So that's international child sex trafficking or something. ;)

"God's Children Are Not For Sale" IMHO.

Abhorsen said:
No. STDs are nowhere near the worst thing about rape. Those are dealable with pills (even HIV). The worst part is the emotional torment, wondering if you still are a man, if it's safe to be around others of your rapist's gender, etc.
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Oh that reminds me of a Norm MacDonald joke about how the worst thing about Bill Cosby was the hypocrisy.
 
mrttao said:
The absolute worst thing about gay rape is all the STDs.

For example, of the HIV infected men in USA. 81% are gay.
www.hiv.gov

HIV & AIDS Trends and U.S. Statistics Overview

Learn the facts about how many people have HIV in the U.S., who is at the highest risk, and more.
www.hiv.gov www.hiv.gov

And HIV is just one of many different STDs you will get from being raped by a sodomite.
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I mean that's just the cherry on the shit sunday. But not all of the gays have it.
Abhorsen said:
Fair. I think that mostly applies to men though not women, and it applies regardless of who rapes them. Also, for an actual real problem that exists, I know that many places still don't consider Female on Male rape as legally rape.

Anyway, I don't really care too much as to who gets it worse, my universal answer to all is "life in prison, no parole", and if caught red handed, death (or castration + death)
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Who has it worse is important for deciding proper punishment. For example if homosexual rape is castration + death, then maybe heterosexual rape should only be one of those instead of both.
 
King Arts said:
Who has it worse is important for deciding proper punishment. For example if homosexual rape is castration + death, then maybe heterosexual rape should only be one of those instead of both.
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Basically, I think rape is a crime deserving all the bad that a just society can do.

The reason, now that I think more about it, I'm not in favor of castration + death is that the castration is unnecessary, and teaches the person who does it to be cruel (I don't give a shit about the rapist here, tbc, just the one punishing). I don't generally agree with death because of the chance of killing an innocent, so death for being caught red handed, life in prison otherwise.
 
Abhorsen said:
Basically, I think rape is a crime deserving all the bad that a just society can do.

The reason, now that I think more about it, I'm not in favor of castration + death is that the castration is unnecessary, and teaches the person who does it to be cruel (I don't give a shit about the rapist here, tbc, just the one punishing). I don't generally agree with death because of the chance of killing an innocent, so death for being caught red handed, life in prison otherwise.
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That and I think there should be extremely harsh punishment for false accusations.
 
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