First COVID, now this? (Potential Leak at Chinese Nuclear Power Plant)

[History Learner]

Because China is trying to control the world woth an iron fist and has had A LOT more issues then the middle east in a lot of regards. At least in the Middle East you don't have to worry about a window falling on you while walking down the street. A building shaking apart, a sky scraper at that. A dam on the verge if breaking...a government that will kill you for talking bad about it (Qnymore. Taliban will, so will Iram but even Iran let's some political dissidents live, but not on the level of China).

So....literally everyday events in the Middle East or even the United States, for that matter? Who is Jamal Khashoggi?

Have openly threatened an independent country they claim is there territory.

What is the Golan Heights for $500, Alex.

Have started fishing in other nations waters and opened fired on thier craft when going to stop the fishing....

So, just like Europe? We invading Normandy again?

 

[Zachowon]

So....literally everyday events in the Middle East or even the United States, for that matter? Who is Jamal Khashoggi?



What is the Golan Heights for $500, Alex.



So, just like Europe? We invading Normandy again?

Should I bring up the large numbe of people who have been killed or censored etc etc about COVID from China?? I don't think you understand how large the diffrence between a journalist in the middle east, a wealthy one, and dozens to hundreds who have been censored and sent to camps and the like.
Should I bring up the Uigher camps as well?

Golan heights is diffrent. Because it was taken by Isreal in a war. Palestine just claims it because they hate Jews. Taiwan is a very prosperous nation with its own government that was founded when exiled from China because of thr filthy CCP. Taiwan is constantly being tested by China. Golan Heights can choose a side and is not comparable.

Cute.
It isn't on the same level as China...

China's 'dark' fishing fleets are plundering the world's oceans - ABC News

amp.abc.net.au

 

[History Learner]

Should I bring up the large numbe of people who have been killed or censored etc etc about COVID from China?? I don't think you understand how large the diffrence between a journalist in the middle east, a wealthy one, and dozens to hundreds who have been censored and sent to camps and the like. Should I bring up the Uigher camps as well?

Should I bring up what the Saudis, Egyptians, Turks, etc do on a daily basis? You can bring up the Uyghur Camps, but can I respond with the Darfur Genocide? Quite frankly literally anything you say about China has a counterpart in the Middle East.

Golan heights is diffrent. Because it was taken by Isreal in a war. Palestine just claims it because they hate Jews. Taiwan is a very prosperous nation with its own government that was founded when exiled from China because of thr filthy CCP. Taiwan is constantly being tested by China. Golan Heights can choose a side and is not comparable.

Okay, so we can confirm you don't know basic facts about the region. The Golan Heights was Syrian territory and has never been claimed by the Palestinians; it is currently under Israeli military occupation and does not get to decide which side it chooses. Beyond that though, can you explain why China claiming territory is somehow wrong but Israel directly taking it in war is okay?

Cute.
It isn't on the same level as China...

China's 'dark' fishing fleets are plundering the world's oceans - ABC News

amp.abc.net.au

I take it you've never heard of the Cod Wars?

 

[Zachowon]

Should I bring up what the Saudis, Egyptians, Turks, etc do on a daily basis? You can bring up the Uyghur Camps, but can I respond with the Darfur Genocide? Quite frankly literally anything you say about China has a counterpart in the Middle East.



Okay, so we can confirm you don't know basic facts about the region. The Golan Heights was Syrian territory and has never been claimed by the Palestinians; it is currently under Israeli military occupation and does not get to decide which side it chooses. Beyond that though, can you explain why China claiming territory is somehow wrong but Israel directly taking it in war is okay?



I take it you've never heard of the Cod Wars?

The diffrence is scale.
China has the largest popupopulation in the world. It is also genociding a whole group of people while censoring and killing hundreds of others. Forcefully took over a city, Hong Kong, when they said they would keep it free... hey that sounds familiar.


I would use Hong Kong over Taiwan as Golan Heights. Golan Heights is small scale compared to Taiwan and yeah. Also, how comfortable are the people in Golan Heights living? Do they protest for freedoms? Would they live better being apart of Syria?


The Cod wars are again small scale.
China is sending these dark fleets over the entire world.

 

[History Learner]

The diffrence is scale.
China has the largest popupopulation in the world. It is also genociding a whole group of people while censoring and killing hundreds of others. Forcefully took over a city, Hong Kong, when they said they would keep it free... hey that sounds familiar.

China having the largest population in the world actually cuts against your argument because if you arguing death camps, the Darfur Genocide is actually larger in everything but nominal terms. Same with Israel and the Golan, or the West Bank settlements from Palestine.

I would use Hong Kong over Taiwan as Golan Heights. Golan Heights is small scale compared to Taiwan and yeah. Also, how comfortable are the people in Golan Heights living? Do they protest for freedoms? Would they live better being apart of Syria?

Except Hong Kong was turned over peacefully, Golan was taking via warfare; can you explain, directly, why the former is wrong but the latter is acceptable? And yes, there is protests in Golan, in fact to this very day.

The Cod wars are again small scale.
China is sending these dark fleets over the entire world.

Okay and the Cod Wars were fought all over the Atlantic; again, in per capita terms as you earlier asserted, they are the same or equal.

 

[LordsFire]

Your last sentence is quite literally my point; the same way the Middle East was used as a distraction is now being used by our elites with China. Why suddenly after all these years is it valid to attack China? You can't earnestly claim it's "the American public catching on" when you have Biden talking about an Anti-China alliance a the G7 and China isn't a major issue in any polling by the American public on terms of their top concerns. Simply put, we're getting played again the same way we have since the 1980s with the Middle East. That this is somehow controversial to you and others in this thread speaks volumes because you're able to recognize the old play but fail to realize the Anti-China stuff is quite literally just that with a face lift.

The Middle East is not currently a potential conquering threat to the entire world. They're a threat to themselves and their neighbors.

China is.

Islam is a harsh, brutal religion, but it actually has some limiting principles.

Communism has no limiting principles. As has been demonstrated repeatedly, if killing a million doesn't bring about communism, they'll just kill a million more, and keep going until they collapse in blood-soaked exhaustion.

The nations of the middle east are fractious and divided, fighting each other as much or more than they fight anyone else.

China is a monolithic power block that threatens the rest of the world. Oh, it may shatter hard into a big mess of rival mini-nations, but that isn't where it is now.

Middle Eastern nations lack the ability to directly manipulate and blackmail western companies.

China has demonstrated it has exactly that ability, repeatedly.

No hostile middle eastern nation has nuclear weapons.

China does.


There are a lot of reasons why China isn't 'just another trick.'

 

[Marduk]

Should I bring up what the Saudis, Egyptians, Turks, etc do on a daily basis? You can bring up the Uyghur Camps, but can I respond with the Darfur Genocide? Quite frankly literally anything you say about China has a counterpart in the Middle East.

Excellent, i think at that point it would be best that everyone cuts the competitive "concern trolling" of who makes a joke out of human rights more - i think all sides of the debate here have already established well enough that these are most useful as the international diplomatic equivalent of rotten fruit, meant to be thrown at whoever one happens to dislike at the moment to make them dirty and stinky - so we may aswell drop that, rotten fruit doesn't elevate a discussion.

So, from a completely separate angle - if either Saudi Arabia, Turkey or Egypt was a rising contender for both world's top military superpower and economic superpower while having the (officially) third biggest nuclear arsenal in the world and the biggest conventional army in the world, while doing all they are doing now, i can assure you we would all be caring far, far more about them and their aggressive moves than we do now.
However, that is a hypothetical, and in reality China is this country.

As for why the attention given to Middle East has recently decreased? That one is simple and obvious.

I rest my case.

 

[Airedale260]

Fukushima would not have been an issue at all if the Yakuza owned company that built it hadn't put the back-up diesel generators in the basement, IN A FUCKING TSUNAMI ZONE.

Let's not go there. The earthquake which caused the tsunami was Magnitude 9.1. That earthquake was one of the strongest ever recorded.

Actually let's; because there was a study done some years ago, entitled The Fukushima accident was preventable, that laid out exactly how Fukushima was mismanaged to the point of causing the facility to fail during that tsunami, when it could have otherwise endured it without issue.

Yeah, the standard design philosophy in the West is, or at least is supposed to be, "Let's take the worst possible case scenario that could potentially happen, no matter how unlikely or remote, and build it to withstand that." Now, operator error can result in some issues (see Three Mile Island) but even then, it was stopped in time and moves were made to rectify that and prevent future occurrences.

The Qing dynasty lasted from 1644 to 1912, that's honestly a pretty good run, they helped make China pretty stable for the early part of its history, its true they didn't have the kind of dymanism the Ming had but the Ming were mother fucking glorious so maybe not a fair comparison.

Their problem was they were unable to modernize because the Ming were a forgen dynasty that didn't have legitimacy with the Han majority. Still with all of their problems at least they didn't have the 4 olds campain, or the great leap forward, or the cultural revolution all of which together fucked up china pretty bad.

The Ming weren't all that dynamic, though. After the Tumu Crisis in the 1440s it all went to shit.

It's kind of a consistent cycle with China: Dynasty takes power, does a lot of good work, starts to decay, shit falls apart, rebellions and civil wars erupt, new dynasty comes to power, rinse and repeat.

The problem for the Qing was that they took power as the West was able to finally make contact in sufficient numbers, and then when they did arrive, it didn't become clear until far too late that these newcomers were, while fairly impressed with China, saw them as an equal rather than the Middle Kingdom its neighbors had always seen.

 

[BlackDragon98]

But the Chinese have horrendous building standards and they have more buildings collpase then the US does... Thier dam is on the verge of breaking....

If the dam does break, then 90% of my family (both sides) will be gone in an instant.

So I'd prefer that doesn't ever happen.

 

[Zachowon]

If the dam does break, then 90% of my family (both sides) will be gone in an instant.

So I'd prefer that doesn't ever happen.

I am saying it is a possibility that it could happen. I don't want the people to die, I just want the CCP to perish

 

[BlackDragon98]

I take it you've never heard of the Cod Wars?

You ever taken a trip to a Chinese port city?

because I have.

The scale of the Chinese fishing fleet is insane and it is well known in China that these fleets don't follow international fishing laws.

Otherwise, how the hell could I find shark fin soup in almost every decent restaurant I went to? (along with other things like cod, sea cucumbers, and other expensive seafoods)

China's fishing fleet will destroy global fish stocks in less than 10 years if they aren't stopped.

Fucking greens and commies never talk about that shit. It's always climate change and that whole pile of fraudulent fear mongering. The Chinese have done nothing but pollute the world's oceans with trash and systematically eradicate healthy fish stocks since 1949.

Oh and don't both mentioning the Sea Shepherds or greenpeace. They're most likely bankrolled by the ChiComs given their absolute absence of protests and "declarations" against the Chinese fishing fleet that is currently plundering out the world's oceans.

I am saying it is a possibility that it could happen. I don't want the people to die, I just want the CCP to perish

I hate the ChiComs as much as you and the next guy, but my family (extended family included) is not a price I'm willing to pay for their destruction.

 

[Zachowon]

You ever taken a trip to a Chinese port city?

because I have.

The scale of the Chinese fishing fleet is insane and it is well known in China that these fleets don't follow international fishing laws.

Otherwise, how the hell could I find shark fin soup in almost every decent restaurant I went to? (along with other things like cod, sea cucumbers, and other expensive seafoods)

China's fishing fleet will destroy global fish stocks in less than 10 years if they aren't stopped.

Fucking greens and commies never talk about that shit. It's always climate change and that whole pile of fraudulent fear mongering. The Chinese have done nothing but pollute the world's oceans with trash and systematically eradicate healthy fish stocks since 1949.

Oh and don't both mentioning the Sea Shepherds or greenpeace. They're most likely bankrolled by the ChiComs given their absolute absence of protests and "declarations" against the Chinese fishing fleet that is currently plundering out the world's oceans.


I hate the ChiComs as much as you and the next guy, but my family (extended family included) is not a price I'm willing to pay for their destruction.

The dam giving way is most likely going to happen and is what will most likely help bring the downfall of the CCP

 

[Marduk]

The scale of the Chinese fishing fleet is insane and it is well known in China that these fleets don't follow international fishing laws.

Also a chunk of their fishing fleet is not an ordinary private or state owned fishing fleet in the same way other countries have them, but a state controlled paramilitary organization doing way more than fishing.

Records Expose China’s Maritime Militia at Whitsun Reef

Beijing claims they are fishing vessels. The data shows otherwise.

foreignpolicy.com

China’s Hidden Navy

The evidence shows that supposed fishing boats around contested islands are part of an extensive maritime militia.

foreignpolicy.com

The Pentagon And Japan Just Exposed A Secretive Chinese Naval Militia

China is pursuing asymmetric means to reach its goals in Asia.

nationalinterest.org

Since 2015, starting in Sansha City in the Paracel Islands, China has been developing a new full-time PAFMM contingent: more professionalized, militarized, well-paid units including military recruits, crewing purpose-built vessels with mast-mounted water cannons for spraying and reinforced hulls for ramming. “In the past, the PAFMM rented fishing vessels from companies or individual fishermen, but China has built a state-owned fishing fleet for at least part of its maritime militia force in the South China Sea,” the Pentagon expounds. “The Hainan provincial government, adjacent to the South China Sea”—whose important role in PAFMM development my colleague Conor M. Kennedy and I explain here, here, and here—“ordered the building of 84 large militia fishing vessels with reinforced hulls and ammunition storage, which the militia received by the end of 2016, along with extensive subsidies to encourage frequent operations in the Spratly Islands.” The report elaborates: “This particular PAFMM unit is also China’s most professional, paid salaries independent of any clear commercial fishing responsibilities, and recruited from recently separated veterans.” Lacking fishing responsibilities, personnel train for peacetime and wartime contingencies, including with light arms, and deploy regularly to disputed South China Sea features even during fishing moratoriums.

 

[Captain X]

I honestly think it's time someone sent a few of those fishing boats to the bottom.

 

[Bear Ribs]

I honestly think it's time someone sent a few of those fishing boats to the bottom.

Argentina's done it a few times. However with China having a massive influence over media companies and prone to blacklisting megacorps who say the slightest thing against China, it's an uphill battle to win the media war. Notice the skepticism quotes around "Illegal Fishing" f'rex.

Argentina sinks Chinese boat with gunfire over 'illegal fishing' in its waters

The coast guard used gunfire to sink after boat attempted to ram Argentine naval vessel

www.independent.co.uk

 

[Captain X]

People need to recognize the media are little more than propagandists and just ignore them, or better yet stomp on them the way some politicians already have been.

 

[Bear Ribs]

It doesn't help that China generally only does it to smaller nations with minimal naval assets to back it up and small markets that don't sway media companies. You don't see Chinese fishing fleets suddenly rushing in to deplete, say, Monterey Bay, it's always small South America, Africa, or smaller Asian nations that get their fisheries gutted.

 

[bintananth]

It doesn't help that China generally only does it to smaller nations with minimal naval assets to back it up and small markets that don't sway media companies. You don't see Chinese fishing fleets suddenly rushing in to deplete, say, Monterey Bay, it's always small South America, Africa, or smaller Asian nations that get their fisheries gutted.

A country with an oceanic coastline really should invest in a strong navy. Will it be Royal Navy strong back when Britannia ruled the waves? No. It should, however, be good enough to tell others "don't fuck with our shit."

 

[Bear Ribs]

A country with an oceanic coastline really should invest in a strong navy. Will it be Royal Navy strong back when Britannia ruled the waves? No. It should, however, be good enough to tell others "don't fuck with our shit."

Argentina had the best navy in South America at one point but never really recovered from getting their teeth kicked in by the Royal Navy in the Falklands War. Neither of their Submarines work anymore (both went offline in 2020 due to lack of budget for maintenance) and they're down to four destroyers backed by about twenty assorted corvettes and PT boats. Pretty much their entire navy is dedicated to protecting their fisheries at this point, Argentina catches less than 1% of the fish from their own waters with China taking about 75% and the rest going to other countries poaching them.

 

[Marduk]

New info on the leak:

China Denies Radiation Leak at Reactor but Admits Fuel Rod Damage (Published 2021)

Several of the reactor’s more than 60,000 fuel rods have been damaged, prompting regulators to reassess the levels of radioactive gases around them.

www.nytimes.com

Argentina had the best navy in South America at one point but never really recovered from getting their teeth kicked in by the Royal Navy in the Falklands War. Neither of their Submarines work anymore (both went offline in 2020 due to lack of budget for maintenance) and they're down to four destroyers backed by about twenty assorted corvettes and PT boats. Pretty much their entire navy is dedicated to protecting their fisheries at this point, Argentina catches less than 1% of the fish from their own waters with China taking about 75% and the rest going to other countries poaching them.

TBH submarines are less useful for that particular job than all the other ships, so at least they got their priorities right.