United States Feds drop charges to avoid ruling that would invalidate Gun Control Act.

D

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Essentially, a man in California manufactured more than 10,000 80% lowers. He was charged with federal crimes after one was used in a mass shooting. Five years later, all the charges against him will be dropped and he will be a free man with no record under a diversion agreement.

Why did the ATF hand him this amazing victory? Because if they didn't, then a ruling by the judge in the case could see essentially 90% of modern firearms no longer having a single regulated part in them.

A four-year wait, a four-day trial
When the case finally came to trial last year, much of the four-day proceeding consisted of Nicolaysen, Roh's defense attorney, grilling ATF officials on arcane gun laws and regulations and the agency's internal decision-making process.
After both sides presented their evidence, the defense filed a motion for acquittal, arguing that the government's case against Roh was "legally flawed" because the charges were based on a violation of an internal ATF "classification" as opposed to federal law.
Nicolaysen argued that the definition of a receiver under the relevant federal code differed in various ways from the AR-15 component Roh was accused of manufacturing.
Under the US Code of Federal Regulations, a firearm frame or receiver is defined as: "That part of a firearm which provides housing for the hammer, bolt or breechblock, and firing mechanism, and which is usually threaded at its forward portion to receive the barrel."
The lower receiver in Roh's case does not have a bolt or breechblock and is not threaded to receive the barrel, Nicolaysen noted.
He called the decision to classify it as a firearm nonetheless, the result of "secret, in-house decision-making."
Nicolaysen accused the ATF of abusing its authority by pursuing Roh based on his alleged violation of a policy "that masquerades as law."
He asked the judge to consider recommending that then-US Attorney General Jeff Sessions conduct a review to determine whether there were any similar cases pending around the country or past convictions "sustained on the basis of ATF policy, rather than law."
Prosecutors acknowledged there were technical differences between the regulation and the lower receiver in Roh's case, but said the ATF's interpretation of the regulation was consistent with the intent of federal gun laws. The agency's reading of the law "should also receive deference from this court," prosecutors Shawn J. Nelson and Benjamin D. Lichtman argued.
Adopting the defense position, the prosecutors wrote, would be "manifestly incompatible" with the intent of the federal Gun Control Act and would "severely frustrate" enforcement of the law.
The prosecutors' filing said a ruling in favor of the defense could impact the receivers for up to 90% of the firearms in America.
"The necessary result of this would be that the unregulated parts could be manufactured, sold, and combined with other commercially available parts to create completed, un-serialized firearms which would not be subject to background checks, and which would be untraceable," the prosecutors wrote. "Defendant's interpretation would mean that nearly every semi-automatic firearm could be purchased piece by piece with no regulation or background check before a prohibited person would have a firearm."
'There is a disconnect'
Though the trial lasted less than a week, Selna deliberated for more than year. In April, he issued a tentative order in which he determined that the ATF had improperly classified the AR-15 lower receivers in Roh's case as firearms.
He rejected the prosecution's argument that the ATF's interpretation of the regulation describing a receiver could reasonably be applied to the device at issue in Roh's case.
"There is a disconnect," the judge wrote.
Selna added that the combination of the federal law and regulation governing the manufacturing of receivers is "unconstitutionally vague" as applied in the case against Roh.
"No reasonable person would understand that a part constitutes a receiver where it lacks the components specified in the regulation," Selna wrote.
Therefore, the judge determined, "Roh did not violate the law by manufacturing receivers."
The judge's tentative order also found that the ATF's in-house classification process failed to comply with federal rule-making procedures. Changes to substantive federal regulations typically include a notice-and-comment period and eventual publication in the Federal Register.
Selna did find that Roh was guilty of selling completed firearms without a license, subjecting him to a possible prison sentence.
Following Selna's tentative order, the prosecution and defense agreed to a deal in which Roh would plead guilty to the charge against him, but would be allowed to withdraw that plea if he stayed out of trouble for a year. Prosecutors would then dismiss the case. If Roh abides by the deal, he will have no criminal conviction and serve no time behind bars.
Sources familiar with the agreement said prosecutors wanted to strike a deal in order to prevent Selna's order from becoming permanent, drawing publicity, and creating case law that could hamper ATF enforcement efforts.
Roh accepted the deal to avoid a permanent conviction — and possible prison time — for dealing firearms without a license.
Nicolaysen declined to comment on the details of Roh's alleged activities, citing his pending diversion agreement.
But he said his client has left his firearms-related business behind and now deals in industrial vacuums.
Despite Roh's departure from the gun trade, the lawyer said, the issues surrounding his alleged practices remain.
"AR-15s, as we speak today, do not have a receiver by the definition of the existing law and that's a huge issue," he said. "It shows that the laws are obsolete and they're out of sync with the realities of today's firearms market."
Winkler, the UCLA law professor, offered a similar assessment.
When he was first informed of the judge's tentative order by a CNN reporter, Winkler said, "I thought the logic was crazy."
But after reviewing the order and several filings in the case at the request of CNN, he said Selna's rationale appeared legally sound.
"It does seem like there is problem," Winkler said.
 

7 Gold Eye Heals the Wise

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Because if they didn't, then a ruling by the judge in the case could see essentially 90% of modern firearms no longer having a single regulated part in them.
Damn it!

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Fucking ATF!
 

bullethead

Part-time fanfic writer
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Yeah, thinking about it, almost every rifle/machine gun designed post-1945 that isn't an AK has a separate receiver/housing for the bolt and trigger pack. Like, the only exception that immediately come to mind is the Tavor, because you can't pull the receiver into separate parts.
 

Scottty

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The issue here is that they were trying to prosecute someone not for breaking a law passed by Congress, but according to some arbitrary rule made by an unelected bureaucrat.
It would have been good for the court to whack them on the head with a gavel and tell them no you can't do that.
 
D

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The issue here is that they were trying to prosecute someone not for breaking a law passed by Congress, but according to some arbitrary rule made by an unelected bureaucrat.
It would have been good for the court to whack them on the head with a gavel and tell them no you can't do that.

Which is why the charges were suddenly dropped. It's the same reason New York City abruptly changed its own rules and then argued that the Supreme Court should no longer hear the case.
 

bullethead

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Which is why the charges were suddenly dropped. It's the same reason New York City abruptly changed its own rules and then argued that the Supreme Court should no longer hear the case.
Well, at least the Supreme Court is going to hear whether or not that case warrants dismissal in December. It'd be real interesting to see if they take it all the way.
 

Emperor Tippy

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Well, at least the Supreme Court is going to hear whether or not that case warrants dismissal in December. It'd be real interesting to see if they take it all the way.
That case will probably get ruled moot.

New York State isn't a party in the case and legally New York City has no ability to change State law. Since New York State changed State law to prevent the city from doing the things at issue in the case, it is moot.

If only the city had changed its policies then mootness could be avoided on the grounds that the City could change those policies back at any time, but since state law was also changed and the respondents in this case have no ability to change state law then it really should be moot.

You are certainly going to have at least four votes for Mootness and I would honestly be more surprised if none of the five conservatives also vote for mootness than if at least one of them does.
 

ShadowsOfParadox

Well-known member
...speaking in a purely theoretical "everyone will be behaving precisely in accordance with the law"... you'd be right.

Speaking in a reality of Party Politics I have a sneaking suspicion that if the Supreme Court rules it Moot the State Law will change to let the City Law exist again.

Now the Supreme Court still SHOULD rule it Moot right now because likely future ill behavior is not present ill behavior and if NYS actually DOES that the Supreme Court can probably use that precedent if the case or a similar one reappears before them.
 
D

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Annoying, but mostly just that; annoying. A petty move by petty Progressives who want to punish anyone within reach.

It seems like it was signed by the Governor mostly because he was afraid of vetoing any gun legislation, even gun legislation he had said was stupid (and Newsom is the most anti-gun Governor in the country) before it was passed.
 

clancyphile

Pro-DH, pro-artificial turf baseball fan
Which is why the charges were suddenly dropped. It's the same reason New York City abruptly changed its own rules and then argued that the Supreme Court should no longer hear the case.

Which didn't work for them.

I heard via a friend who knows a SCOTUS watcher that the threats in the Sheldon Whitehouse brief on that NYC case may have backfired.
 

S'task

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Which didn't work for them.

I heard via a friend who knows a SCOTUS watcher that the threats in the Sheldon Whitehouse brief on that NYC case may have backfired.
Nobody should ever be stupid enough to threaten in a brief...
Even the most anti-2nd amendment as individual right Justices on the Supreme Court are going to balk at threats. Ginsburg, for as liberal and anti-individual right to own guns as she is, is ALSO very VERY cognizant of the ideas of Precedent and the Independence of the Judiciary.

Bear in mind, when the State of Massachusetts literally made the argument that the 2nd Amendment doesn't apply to Tasers and Stun Guns because the technology didn't exist at the time of the adoption of the 2nd Amendment, not only did the Supreme Court rule 8-0 (this happened while the Court was short after Scalia's death) against them, they did so without a full hearing; they made the decision while deciding which cases to take for the upcoming term. You know who wrote the utterly scathing per curiam opinion of the Court? Ginsburg. Because the Mass. position on the matter was SO BEYOND prior precedent just from previous court decision that it was egregious to even HER. And I do mean scathing, like, there was an undercurrent of "what are you, STUPID" in her opinion.

Bear in mind that Ginsburg is basically the leader of the Progressive faction on the Supreme Court. She's already come out against the idea of Court Packing and, as I noted above, even though she disagrees on the idea of an individual right to keep and bear arms in the 2nd Amendment, she respects the other areas of prior precedent (in this case the idea that new technology does no fall outside of the framework of the Bill of Rights) that she'd hard shut down the idea (like, seriously, while some people still float it, after Caetano v. Massachusetts was decided like it was, how many people have seriously pushed the idea that "the 2nd only applies to weapons of the 18th century" idea? It's basically died in any serious gun control discussion.).

So I expect she was... not impressed with being threatened. The question is if she was so turned off by it that she'd be willing to switch her vote, because that would be hilarious.
 
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Lightershoulders

Just another, seeking.
Even the most anti-2nd amendment as individual right Justices on the Supreme Court are going to balk at threats. Ginsburg, for as liberal and anti-individual right to own guns as she is, is ALSO very VERY cognizant of the ideas of Precedent and the Independence of the Judiciary.

Bear in mind, when the State of Massachusetts literally make the argument that the 2nd Amendment doesn't apply to Tasers and Stun Guns because the technology didn't exist at the time of the adoption of the 2nd Amendment, not only did the Supreme Court rule 8-0 (this happened while the Court was short after Scalia's death) against them, they did so without a full hearing, they made the decision while deciding which cases to take for the upcoming term. You know who rote the utterly scathing per curiam opinion of the Court? Ginsburg. Because the Mass. position on the matter was SO BEYOND prior precedent just from previous court decision that it was egregious to even HER. And I do mean scathing, like, there was an undercurrent of "what are you, STUPID" in her opinion.

Bear in mind that Ginsburg is basically the leader of the Progressive faction on the Supreme Court. She's already come out against the idea of Court Packing and, as I noted above, even though she disagrees on the idea of an individual right to keep and bear arms in the 2nd Amendment, she respects the other areas of prior precedent (in this case the idea that new technology falls outside of the framework of the Rights) that she'd hard shut down the idea (like, seriously, while some people still float it, after Caetano v. Massachusetts was decided like it was, how many people have seriously pushed the idea that "the 2nd only applies to weapons of the 18th century" idea? It's basically died in any serious gun control discussion.).

So I expect she was... not impressed with being threatened. The question is if she was so turned off by it that she'd be willing to switch her vote, because that would be hilarious.

Good sir, I do believe you quoted me from another thread. I have not yet participated in this thread.
 

S'task

Renegade Philosopher
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Good sir, I do believe you quoted me from another thread. I have not yet participated in this thread.
. . .

It appears that, for some reason, I had a quote of yours in my cache even though I'd thought I'd cleaned it out. My bad.
 

DarthOne

☦️
The issue here is that they were trying to prosecute someone not for breaking a law passed by Congress, but according to some arbitrary rule made by an unelected bureaucrat.
It would have been good for the court to whack them on the head with a gavel and tell them no you can't do that.
'Reality is often Disapointing'
 

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