Fallout Fallout General Thread - War, War Never Changes. Nor do game engines.

[Scooby Doo]

Actually upon review we see a NCR Trooper has to use their M14 to shoot the Brotherhood Knight pointblank in-between a gap in the leg armor to knock them down to one knee after sneaking up from behind.

Considering they went through all the trouble (4 NCR Troopers, three to hold the neck+arms and one to kill) instead of shooting him in the back of the head once or just straight on the chest that means T-60 is immune to 7.62x51mm NATO which has a much higher muzzle velocity than an AK-47.


So after all these years we have proof that power armor can tank 7.62 caliber ammunition I'm vindicated after all these years

@Husky_Khan @Zachowon

 

[Zachowon]

We can't tell what rounds are from the 240s vs what rounds are from the smaller caliber.

 

[Scooby Doo]

We can't tell what rounds are from the 240s vs what rounds are from the smaller caliber.

We know for a fact it's using the high caliber on the M14 that would be the default

M14 Rifle - The Army Historical Foundation

Written By: Patrick Feng Throughout World War II, the M1 Garand rifle, which was manufactured in large quantities, served the U.S. Army extremely well. Despite the Garand’s undeniable reliability and […]

armyhistory.org

 

[Zachowon]

We know for a fact it's using the high caliber on the M14 that would be the default

M14 Rifle - The Army Historical Foundation

Written By: Patrick Feng Throughout World War II, the M1 Garand rifle, which was manufactured in large quantities, served the U.S. Army extremely well. Despite the Garand’s undeniable reliability and […]

armyhistory.org

That is the .308, also known as a x51.
None if the weapons on the series fire the x54 7.62

 

[Scooby Doo]

That is the .308, also known as a x51.
None if the weapons on the series fire the x54 7.62

The FO TV show lists the 7.62 ammo box as NATO in episode 1 so it should be 7.62 x 51
Caliber.

This also matches the lore in FO Tactics that the M14 uses NATO ammunition which is semi canon.

 

[Husky_Khan]

Actually upon review we see a NCR Trooper has to use their M14 to shoot the Brotherhood Knight pointblank in-between a gap in the leg armor to knock them down to one knee after sneaking up from behind.

Considering they went through all the trouble (4 NCR Troopers, three to hold the neck+arms and one to kill) instead of shooting him in the back of the head once or just straight on the chest that means T-60 is immune to 7.62x51mm NATO which has a much higher muzzle velocity than an AK-47.


So after all these years we have proof that power armor can tank 7.62 caliber ammunition I'm vindicated after all these years

@Husky_Khan @Zachowon

Even random NCR militants/militia have enough residual or inherited experience or knowledge fighting power armor clad enemies.

 

[Scooby Doo]

Even random NCR militants/militia have enough residual or inherited experience or knowledge fighting power armor clad enemies.

Yeah the NCR put up a valiant fight and exploited the main flaws of Power armor and that's poor agility, if you can get close to a power armor user you have a chance to hurt them with precision. It still takes a lot of factors involved to score that kill though.

First you need to get the PA user distracted which means someone's gonna die, then you have to flank the PA while they're distracted by the sacrificial lamb and do so fast enough before he notices, then you need to stick a high caliber point blank into the joint armor and fire it. Then make sure you have a couple guys to hold him down while you mag dump inside the gap of his neck armor.

But that tactic only works when you're able to isolate the power armored soldiers from other allies, if it was 2 Knights versus 4 NCR there would be literally nothing they can do. The Knight also screwed up by breaking formation and got dogpiled, properly trained PA infantry wouldn't have their back exposed so willingly exposed or unguarded. If the Knight had his back to a wall there wouldn't be able to do anything to him either with those guns.

 

[Zachowon]

The FO TV show lists the 7.62 ammo box as NATO in episode 1 so it should be 7.62 x 51
Caliber.

This also matches the lore in FO Tactics that the M14 uses NATO ammunition which is semi canon.

Yes. But there still is a diffrence between 7.62x51 and 7.62x54.
And 7.62x51 IS .308. Just diffrent unit of measurement.
So all .308s you see in the deries is also that of the ones seen in both the M14 and 240s.

Yeah the NCR put up a valiant fight and exploited the main flaws of Power armor and that's poor agility, if you can get close to a power armor user you have a chance to hurt them with precision. It still takes a lot of factors involved to score that kill though.

First you need to get the PA user distracted which means someone's gonna die, then you have to flank the PA while they're distracted by the sacrificial lamb and do so fast enough before he notices, then you need to stick a high caliber point blank into the joint armor and fire it. Then make sure you have a couple guys to hold him down while you mag dump inside the gap of his neck armor.

But that tactic only works when you're able to isolate the power armored soldiers from other allies, if it was 2 Knights versus 4 NCR there would be literally nothing they can do. The Knight also screwed up by breaking formation and got dogpiled, properly trained PA infantry wouldn't have their back exposed so willingly exposed or unguarded. If the Knight had his back to a wall there wouldn't be able to do anything to him either with those guns.

Eh, just got to have good top down on the power armor, the area around the neck is a decently large target

 

[ThatZenoGuy]

Weirdly enough Fallout seems to differentiate 7.62 nato with .308.

7.62 is lower powered loadings for use with older firearms such as the FAL and M60.
.308 is a much hotter round that was once loaded in sniper rifles, but was exceedingly rare post-war so sniper rifles were rechambered to .223.

 

[Zachowon]

Except they are not diffrent

 

[ThatZenoGuy]

Except they are not diffrent

You can load identical cartridges to different standards, M885A1 will mess up guns designed to fire regular bullets.

So yes, they are 'different' as they have different stats ingame, and could be loaded with different projectiles and powder loads.

 

[Zachowon]

But when discussing capabilities based upon irl, they are not.

You can load identical cartridges to different standards, M885A1 will mess up guns designed to fire regular bullets.

So yes, they are 'different' as they have different stats ingame, and could be loaded with different projectiles and powder loads.

You do know surplus ammo fires just fine out if most guns

 

[ThatZenoGuy]

But when discussing capabilities based upon irl, they are not.

You do know surplus ammo fires just fine out if most guns

Regular M885 is okay out of most guns, but M885A1 is hotter and generally isn't good to fire out of your average civilian firearm.

Also, Fallout is a fictional universe, where 10mm Auto became the standard handgun ammo despite it kicking like a mule IRL.

 

[Zachowon]

Regular M885 is okay out of most guns, but M885A1 is hotter and generally isn't good to fire out of your average civilian firearm.

Also, Fallout is a fictional universe, where 10mm Auto became the standard handgun ammo despite it kicking like a mule IRL.

I am getting at trying to figure out what would be able to penetrate the power armor based off what we know.

And. To be specific, .308 is 7.62x51.
So saying 7.62 can mean something like x39 for AK, x54 for Russian weapons.

And...I have not heard of anyone shooting A1 surplus bit being able to have thier rifle handle itm

 

[ThatZenoGuy]

I am getting at trying to figure out what would be able to penetrate the power armor based off what we know.

And. To be specific, .308 is 7.62x51.
So saying 7.62 can mean something like x39 for AK, x54 for Russian weapons.

And...I have not heard of anyone shooting A1 surplus bit being able to have thier rifle handle itm

.308 in context of Fallout, isn't 7.62x51. For whatever reason while they share the same cartridge case, .308 is the military version while 7.62x51 is an older form of the cartridge.

Think... 7.63×25mm Mauser vs 7.62×25mm Tokarev.

 

[Zachowon]

.308 in context of Fallout, isn't 7.62x51. For whatever reason while they share the same cartridge case, .308 is the military version while 7.62x51 is an older form of the cartridge.

Think... 7.63×25mm Mauser vs 7.62×25mm Tokarev.

Except...it is not the same.
And .308 is 7.62x51. Diffrence is minor.
Loads to matter yes, but 90% of the time both can be taken by the same gun.

Acting like 308 is any more powerful then 7.62x51 is hilarious.
Hell, from what I can find, in general the 7.62 is the more powerful and overall has better range then the .308 rounds...

But that isn't the point.
The point I an making is that in order to understand how to defeat Power Armor for thongs such as VS, we have to understand asp3cts like this

 

[ThatZenoGuy]

Except...it is not the same.
And .308 is 7.62x51. Diffrence is minor.
Loads to matter yes, but 90% of the time both can be taken by the same gun.

Acting like 308 is any more powerful then 7.62x51 is hilarious.
Hell, from what I can find, in general the 7.62 is the more powerful and overall has better range then the .308 rounds...

But that isn't the point.
The point I an making is that in order to understand how to defeat Power Armor for thongs such as VS, we have to understand asp3cts like this

Oh jeez let me put it this way...

The FAL does 9-18 damage with 7.62x51
Basic bitch hunting rifle does 8-20 damage with .223

Therefore we have to assume that 7.62 is a very weak loading or that Fallout .223 is bubbas hot loads. Either or, .308 is later depicted as being stronger than .223, so it must be pretty spicy.

Shooting PHAT HOT LOADZ out of guns that aren't built for it, results in very bad things.

7.62 is a military designation, so it's powder load is going to be representative of today's munitions within reason. Whereas .308 is a mere description of the bullet diameter, so it's loading can be basically anything.

 

[Zachowon]

Oh jeez let me put it this way...

The FAL does 9-18 damage with 7.62x51
Basic bitch hunting rifle does 8-20 damage with .223

Game mechanics

Therefore we have to assume that 7.62 is a very weak loading or that Fallout .223 is bubbas hot loads. Either or, .308 is later depicted as being stronger than .223, so it must be pretty spicy.

So...what your saying is I could just go ahead and say a .223 is more effective against PA then that if 7.62.
Got it, will make sure to argue that every .223 in every setting has higher loads then that if 7.62 in FO.....

Shooting PHAT HOT LOADZ out of guns that aren't built for it, results in very bad things.

I mean...depends.

7.62 is a military designation, so it's powder load is going to be representative of today's munitions within reason. Whereas .308 is a mere description of the bullet diameter, so it's loading can be basically anything.

...except 7.62 is still a round that can be heavily modified as well.
It is just nit known around that area.

Your whole argument is "they COULD BE BUBBA LOADS!"
That isn't how arguments are won

 

[ThatZenoGuy]

Game mechanics

Except 5mm vs .223 vs other munitions are roughly in proportion with each other. :V

So...what your saying is I could just go ahead and say a .223 is more effective against PA then that if 7.62.

Yes, actually, because 7.62 in Fallout is a really shit round. .223 outcompetes it, especially when fired out of the .223 Pistol.

...except 7.62 is still a round that can be heavily modified as well.
It is just nit known around that area.

Your whole argument is "they COULD BE BUBBA LOADS!"
That isn't how arguments are won

You don't even know how FO1-2 works, the argument was won before it was started. :V

If you're going to differentiate two rounds of identical proportions but different years/loadings, calling them different names makes perfect sense.

Reminder, milspec 5mm in Fallout is...5mm. Whereas the civilian equivalent (different bullet though) is .223

So measuring in inches appears to be for civilians, while measuring in metric is for military usages.

Some examples? .44 .45 .223 all being used by civilian grade guns, while 5mm, 10mm, 2mm, 4.7mm all being used by high grade military weapons.

 

[Zachowon]

Except 5mm vs .223 vs other munitions are roughly in proportion with each other. :V

Except no.
5.56 is closer to .223 then to regular 5mm.
How do I know? My AR is in 5.56 and can take .223.
5mm is a smaller overall round

Yes, actually, because 7.62 in Fallout is a really shit round. .223 outcompetes it, especially when fired out of the .223 Pistol.

then...it is a bad argument for the durability of PA in FO then.
because .223 even with the biggest Bubba load is still weaker then majority 7.62. It does depend on the 7.62 in question.
X39, x51, x54.

You don't even know how FO1-2 works, the argument was won before it was started. :V

Except the argument js how can we take what the games oresentz and make a debatable aspect of how durable something is.
We take known factors

If you're going to differentiate two rounds of identical proportions but different years/loadings, calling them different names makes perfect sense.

somewhat, but even the most basic of .308 and 7.62x51 NATO weapons the 7.62 is stoll often tines the better round. Just slightly slower

Reminder, milspec 5mm in Fallout is...5mm. Whereas the civilian equivalent (different bullet though) is .223

exceot .223 is 5.56 in Milspec.

So measuring in inches appears to be for civilians, while measuring in metric is for military usages.

I get that in FO.
But when trying to compare to modern weapons for effect in understanding somethings true durability.
Not really how it works.

Some examples? .44 .45 .223 all being used by civilian grade guns, while 5mm, 10mm, 2mm, 4.7mm all being used by high grade military weapons.

And that doesn't really make a diffrence when you get to rounds that are very similar.