Fallout Fallout General Thread - War, War Never Changes. Nor do game engines.

[Navarro]

 

[Typhonis]

You know there is a boardgame that would fit in well with the Fallout universe. Hell I could see Liberty Prime replaced by on of the units.

I am talking about Steve Jackson Games Ogre. Cybernetic tanks that think for themselves. Armed with cannons that fire saturation nuclear warheads. The warhead arrives at the target then releases it's sub munitions. Each sub munition is a nuclear shaped charge warhead that searches for targets.

The Mk V Ogre has 2 heavy gauss cannons and 6 secondary gauss cannons that fire these charges.

There are no aircraft. All infantry wears power armor and even normal tanks have trouble with these monsters. If you would like to learn more look up the book GURPS Ogre.

 

[Zachowon]

Basically, Fallout got stuck in the 50s.
The outfits the military wears, fatigue wise, is damn near pretty close to what we wore in the 50s.
Except a newer style helmet.

And the combat armor seen in 1 and 2, well it basically reeks of "standard sco fi armor"
3 4 and NV have some originality on it.

 

[Battlegrinder]

While not every weapon is exactly real, they basically all seem appropriate for the period, something that might have actually been designed or built for either civilian or military purposes.

Pancor Jackhammer, Desert Eagle, CAWS, P90, Microguns (no, the bloated oversized things in FO4 don't count, it's supposed to be chambered for 5mm), 14mm pistol, 10mm SMG (weirdly missing in FO4), Bazooka (I mean why is this even missing in new Fallouts?!), Grease gun, that one weird-ass british experimental AR, the FAL, BOZAR, M60, LSW.

I'm not sure how all those weapons are supposed to be appropriate for "the period", given you're listing stuff that was used in WW2 alongside weapons from the 80s. What period are you referring to, exactly?

I would also point out that just because a gun was in the prior games, doesn't mean it should be in the newer ones. For example:

• The P90 was famously designed so rear echelon troops would have something capable of engaging Soviet paratroopers equipped with body armor, as existing SMGs were not capable of that. Given that the Chinese in fallout lacked body armor and were not in a position to paradrop troops onto rear areas (at least not on the scale the soviets could have).....why was the P90 designed in fallout?
• The Bozar is dubbed the ultimate sniper weapon, despite the fact it's a light machine gun firing intermediate caliber rounds out of a tiny 30 round mag. If Bethesda had made it people would still be whining about how stupid it is, just like they whine about the machine gun in 4.
• FAL, and the LSW and the EM2 were European issued weaponry, and would consequently be very rare in the US.

And even including weird missing 100% fictional sci fi weapons, where's shit like the Pulse weapons? Actual hitscan rayguns that turn people into electified ash and mulches through power armor?

You mean the incredibly rare pre war weapon that could very well have been a one off prototype, that was only found in one vault on the other side of the country (and was in that vault for....uh....reasons)? That one? You're not clear why that's not in other games?

 

[ThatZenoGuy]

I'm not sure how all those weapons are supposed to be appropriate for "the period", given you're listing stuff that was used in WW2 alongside weapons from the 80s. What period are you referring to, exactly?

The 2070's after a weird divergence that resulted in schitzotech but a reduction in electronics. Resulting in IRL weapons of all sorts of IRL periods showing up after America has been nuked and rebuilt over 200 years, including many years of postwar weapon smithing.

The P90 was famously designed so rear echelon troops would have something capable of engaging Soviet paratroopers equipped with body armor, as existing SMGs were not capable of that. Given that the Chinese in fallout lacked body armor and were not in a position to paradrop troops onto rear areas (at least not on the scale the soviets could have).....why was the P90 designed in fallout?

Fallout P90c=/=P90 IRL
The fallout version is a successor to the famous HK 10mm SMG, which can fire any sort of 10mm including JHP and AP rounds.
Same way how the G11 IRL and G11 ingame aren't exactly the same weapon.

The Bozar is dubbed the ultimate sniper weapon, despite the fact it's a light machine gun firing intermediate caliber rounds out of a tiny 30 round mag. If Bethesda had made it people would still be whining about how stupid it is, just like they whine about the machine gun in 4.

You got me there, the Bozar is a bit of a mess because it was intended on being a sniper, but they never got around to programming it properly so it ended up being a .223 machinegun. NV ended up cementing it as an LMG anyways though.
Its a far better design than the FO4 AR (it's just a fully automatic .223 Barret).

FAL, and the LSW and the EM2 were European issued weaponry, and would consequently be very rare in the US.

There's literally decades of hyper-weaponry focused exports that could be happening in Fallout, avid gun collectors, black markets, military trading and more could easily explain the blueprints of those weapons being in the US. Most weapons by FO2 aren't even pre-war, they're postwar builds by gunrunners and other weapon merchants.

You mean the incredibly rare pre war weapon that could very well have been a one off prototype, that was only found in one vault on the other side of the country (and was in that vault for....uh....reasons)? That one? You're not clear why that's not in other games?

Pulse weapons (the mars attacks zap weapons, not the NV EMP ones) can be found on multiple people, although yeah it does seem like it's exclusively a pre-war weapon, its VERY rare. But FO76 has infinite copies of the Tactics fucking Chinese gauss minigun so that's hardly an argument anymore.

 

[Battlegrinder]

The 2070's after a weird divergence that resulted in schitzotech but a reduction in electronics. Resulting in IRL weapons of all sorts of IRL periods showing up after America has been nuked and rebuilt over 200 years, including many years of postwar weapon smithing.

I don't think that's logically sound. Missing key technologies should lead to developing different technologies as a result, not the exact same stuff but later one. Technology emerges based on the context of the time, it's not just "ah, dang, we didn't unlock transistors, that imposes a 200% reduction on our small arms research time".

Fallout P90c=/=P90 IRL
The fallout version is a successor to the famous HK 10mm SMG, which can fire any sort of 10mm including JHP and AP rounds.
Same way how the G11 IRL and G11 ingame aren't exactly the same weapon.

I feel like that's even worse and less plausible, where now they've invented a gun with the exact same name and exact same shape as the IRL one, but totally different internal functions. And also for some reason the Fallout G11 was invented at the same time as the real one, but the P90 was delayed by a century?

There's literally decades of hyper-weaponry focused exports that could be happening in Fallout, avid gun collectors, black markets, military trading and more could easily explain the blueprints of those weapons being in the US. Most weapons by FO2 aren't even pre-war, they're postwar builds by gunrunners and other weapon merchants.

I think we're talking past one another. Yes, there's easily ways to get a handful of them into the US, and even the means to make more. That does not imply that they should be numerous enough that their absence is a sign of poor worldbuilding.

Pulse weapons (the mars attacks zap weapons, not the NV EMP ones) can be found on multiple people, although yeah it does seem like it's exclusively a pre-war weapon, its VERY rare.

Oh, those pulse weapons. I'm not very familiar with the fallout 1 and 2 armories.....hm. I'd guess they were causalities of the aesthetic shift from 2 to 3, and possibly also for balance issues. And also possibly just a resource limit, it's a lot more time and effort intensive to add more weapons and models to the later fallout games.

But FO76 has infinite copies of the Tactics fucking Chinese gauss minigun so that's hardly an argument anymore.

That's a game mechanics thing, obviously.

 

[ThatZenoGuy]

I don't think that's logically sound. Missing key technologies should lead to developing different technologies as a result, not the exact same stuff but later one. Technology emerges based on the context of the time, it's not just "ah, dang, we didn't unlock transistors, that imposes a 200% reduction on our small arms research time".

Unfortunately exactly what I said appears to be the case, because the Desert Eagle is a prominent weapon in FO1. :V Also a few other things like 10mm Auto still existing...And .223...And .308, and dozens of other identical things appearing after the divergence.

I feel like that's even worse and less plausible, where now they've invented a gun with the exact same name and exact same shape as the IRL one, but totally different internal functions. And also for some reason the Fallout G11 was invented at the same time as the real one, but the P90 was delayed by a century?

It's a silly sci-fi version of DnD with mutants and radiation. It's written with much consistency, but the overall world shouldn't be taken too seriously.

I think we're talking past one another. Yes, there's easily ways to get a handful of them into the US, and even the means to make more. That does not imply that they should be numerous enough that their absence is a sign of poor worldbuilding.

I'll admit that the east vs west coast armories can be used as an example on why some weapons should be missing from FO4, but how come many classic weapons in FO3 don't show up in FO4? Did Boston REALLY have such an isolated weapon cache that no place else had?

Oh, those pulse weapons. I'm not very familiar with the fallout 1 and 2 armories.....hm. I'd guess they were causalities of the aesthetic shift from 2 to 3, and possibly also for balance issues. And also possibly just a resource limit, it's a lot more time and effort intensive to add more weapons and models to the later fallout games.

I highly recommend playing through FO1, it can be beaten in a week with ease, very fun game. Heck play through FO2 afterwards if you liked FO1 that much.

That's a game mechanics thing, obviously.

;P Well that's convenient.
All those cool weapons in FO1-2-NV are just game mechanics too, which is why they should've been in FO4.

 

[S'task]

I'll admit that the east vs west coast armories can be used as an example on why some weapons should be missing from FO4, but how come many classic weapons in FO3 don't show up in FO4? Did Boston REALLY have such an isolated weapon cache that no place else had?

Given the massive difference in gun laws IRL between Massachusetts and Virginia? I can see Boston having a bunch of different weapons from the Capital Wasteland.

And there's a lot more distance between Boston and DC than you think. It's 400 miles IF you can travel through Philadelphia and New York City... which given the status of Fallout is actually an open question if that route could be taken. If you have to go around those it's over 500 miles. For comparison in Europe that's a similar distance to going from Berlin to Budapest... or Kyiv to Moscow...

 

[ThatZenoGuy]

Given the massive difference in gun laws IRL between Massachusetts and Virginia? I can see Boston having a bunch of different weapons from the Capital Wasteland.

And there's a lot more distance between Boston and DC than you think. It's 400 miles IF you can travel through Philadelphia and New York City... which given the status of Fallout is actually an open question if that route could be taken. If you have to go around those it's over 500 miles. For comparison in Europe that's a similar distance to going from Berlin to Budapest... or Kyiv to Moscow...

How could that explain the weird choice of army issued equipment in the area? So many canonical weapons are flat out missing, replaced by versions that look like something designed in the 40's and promptly forgotten due to it's inability to actually shoot bullets.
Shouldn't we see plasma casters, sniper rifles (no, modded hunting rifles don't count!), and about half a dozen more weapons that are confirmed to have been used by prewar armies?
It's just such a bother that all the weapons seem to be weird pre-war civilian owned firearms, with no evidence that anybody builds any more of them.

Something as simple as 'bullpup automatic shotgun' would've been nice to see, but we're stuck with a BAR/PPSh hybrid that apparently can be rechambered into 45 ACP for some ungodly reason. At least with the AK pattern of rifles, a Saiga can be converted back into a regular intermediate cartridge rifle.

I think the issue is just a plain ol simple preference in what people want in video game firearms. Some just enjoy it as long as it looks like a gun and goes pew pew.

I just kinda need more than that, heck I don't even mind more fantastical weapons as long as they actually look and feel nice. Bioshock 2 has some crazy stuff and I love them all.

 

[Typhonis]

Where is the LMG in Fallout? A belt fed weapon that can spray bullets at an intended target? Far Cry has them in the M60 and RPK. Given it was adopted in 1957 and saw service in 1959 it should be in the game.

Who else can see a T-51 lugging one around and using it like an assault rifle?

 

[ThatZenoGuy]

Where is the LMG in Fallout? A belt fed weapon that can spray bullets at an intended target? Far Cry has them in the M60 and RPK. Given it was adopted in 1957 and saw service in 1959 it should be in the game.

Who else can see a T-51 lugging one around and using it like an assault rifle?

There's a few LMG's in Fallout, but none show up in FO1.
FO2 has...

LSW
Bozar
M60
G11E

 

[Typhonis]

There's a few LMG's in Fallout, but none show up in FO1.
FO2 has...

LSW
Bozar
M60
G11E

I never played 1 or 2. I have played 3, 4, and New Vegas. Never completed them though. I also tried to play 76 when it was first released..... never again.

 

[ThatZenoGuy]

I never played 1 or 2. I have played 3, 4, and New Vegas. Never completed them though. I also tried to play 76 when it was first released..... never again.

The only LMGs after FO2 is the Bozar and LMG in NV (well, both are mag fed because animations...)
Uhhh there's also the MG42 in FO76.

 

[Typhonis]

But not an M-60 even though they could have put a large snail drum thing on it to keep the animations down. Just have it show you feed a fresh belt in with the implication its a 100 round belt inside of it.

Imagine it, a unit of 4 men all in T-51 armor and each one with a belt fed M-60 or MG. The cut scene showing two of them firing on a Chinese position while the other two advance. Rinse and repeat until the position is taken.

Of course I also would love to find something like a Fallout styled MCI. It would fit in with the aesthetic. Also could be a point of trade as it is a full days food for 1 or in an emergency 2 people.

 

[Husky_Khan]

But not an M-60 even though they could have put a large snail drum thing on it to keep the animations down. Just have it show you feed a fresh belt in with the implication its a 100 round belt inside of it.

Imagine it, a unit of 4 men all in T-51 armor and each one with a belt fed M-60 or MG. The cut scene showing two of them firing on a Chinese position while the other two advance. Rinse and repeat until the position is taken.

Of course I also would love to find something like a Fallout styled MCI. It would fit in with the aesthetic. Also could be a point of trade as it is a full days food for 1 or in an emergency 2 people.

Having Super mutants and Power Armored types carrying huge weapons was actually pretty much the default in the early Fallout Games. Even some of the plasma rifles looked huge. Plus things like Rocket Launchers and Flamers and Miniguns etc.

It was kinda weird seeing giant ass Supermutants armed with only hunting rifles in Fallout 3 initially... And ever since.

 

[ThatZenoGuy]

But not an M-60 even though they could have put a large snail drum thing on it to keep the animations down. Just have it show you feed a fresh belt in with the implication its a 100 round belt inside of it.

Imagine it, a unit of 4 men all in T-51 armor and each one with a belt fed M-60 or MG. The cut scene showing two of them firing on a Chinese position while the other two advance. Rinse and repeat until the position is taken.

Of course I also would love to find something like a Fallout styled MCI. It would fit in with the aesthetic. Also could be a point of trade as it is a full days food for 1 or in an emergency 2 people.

Yeah since FO1, the 'heavy weapons' tend to be plasma casters, miniguns, and bazookas rather than belt feds. For whatever reason they decided.

Fallout Tactics weapons

DMG: This shows the damage caused by a single attack of your weapon. (in Single fire mode this means the damage that the single bullet will do, but in Burst mode it means the potential damage done per bullet.) AVG DMG: Average damage done by the attack. For Burst mode, lists the combined damage...

fallout.fandom.com

Fallout Tactics expanded the arsenal quite a bit, there's an M60, SAW, non-functional Chauchat, and even a handheld M2 Browning.

 

[Battlegrinder]

I highly recommend playing through FO1, it can be beaten in a week with ease, very fun game. Heck play through FO2 afterwards if you liked FO1 that much.

It's not a time issue. Isomorphic RPGs generally aren't my thing.

Where is the LMG in Fallout? A belt fed weapon that can spray bullets at an intended target? Far Cry has them in the M60 and RPK. Given it was adopted in 1957 and saw service in 1959 it should be in the game.

Who else can see a T-51 lugging one around and using it like an assault rifle?

Well, the "assault rifle" in 4 is functionally a LMG, it's just mislabeled.


Though in universe, I can see some arguement for the LMG falling out of use as power armor became more common. The entire point of LMGs is to attach as much sustained automatic fire as possible to a sqaud, while still retaining mobility. Once you massively increase how much a man can carry via power armor....well, why upgun a bit?

 

[ThatZenoGuy]

It's not a time issue. Isomorphic RPGs generally aren't my thing.

Yeah that's understandable, they certainly play way different than most games. What is your favorite in the series?

 

[Battlegrinder]

Yeah that's understandable, they certainly play way different than most games. What is your favorite in the series?

Probably 3. I like a lot of 4, I love the weapon customization, the armor system, the mods available for it, I like the world and how it plays.

But 3 was my first fallout game, and that nostalgia gives it a strong lead. Though the character writing in 3 was also a strong point, there's so many great characters in 3. Even more than in NV, I'd argue. Yeah, NV has tighter writing, but everyone's characterization and dialogue seesm to revolve around the war, whereas 3 had a lot more people that were just doing ther own thing (and it didn't have the Van Graffs, which is a huge point in its favor).

 

[Husky_Khan]

I've shared some NPC Versus videos already in this thread but Rad King just made this recent video where he engineered a Slave Rebellion in the Capitol Wasteland of Fallout 3.


And instead of simply modding the thing, he actually goes whole ham with preparing these poor slaves for their Servile rebellion.