Doomsought
Well-known member
No, basic fascism is sending thugs to enforce political ideology while the state refuses to prosecute the thugs.
Election 2020 Election 2020: It's (almost) over! (maybe...possibly...ahh who are we kidding, it's 2020!)
- Thread starter Emperor Tippy
- Start date
mesonoxian
Well-known member
Yeah, but I didn't want to bring up the Minneapolis PD.
I mean, should I bring up how the Left has thier own thugs that are basically able to get away with murder if it wasn't for the Marshall's actually being a good agency? Wait thats right ANTIFA are anti fascist communists. Not like they have never done bad
LordsFire
Internet Wizard
Yes, because Fascism is known for:
1: Small government.
2: Low taxes.
3: Strongly protected personal liberties.
4: Egalitarianism.
Definitely hallmarks of fascism that.
I sometimes wonder what it will take to get most leftists to listen to what conservatives actually say, and look at what they actually do, rather than simply parrot what the aspiring telepaths in the media and DNC tell them about conservatives.
D
Deleted member 88
Guest
Curiously, the Democrats are a more bourgeois party than the republicans. They are generally wealthier, and consider themselves more cultured. Even Antifa street fighters have been often revealed to come from privileged backgrounds.
So there is a party realignment, the issue for republicans is to one develop a connection with the working class, and two implement pro working clsss policies.
Trump still held onto most of his white working class support. In the future, republicans need to reach out more to them, and implement policies for them.
There is no future for the party with upper middle class well heeled Whites. Who get their cultural cues from HBO and Stephen Colbert.
So there is a party realignment, the issue for republicans is to one develop a connection with the working class, and two implement pro working clsss policies.
Trump still held onto most of his white working class support. In the future, republicans need to reach out more to them, and implement policies for them.
There is no future for the party with upper middle class well heeled Whites. Who get their cultural cues from HBO and Stephen Colbert.
LordsFire
Internet Wizard
The Republican Party already has a doctrine for connecting to the working class.
Cutting taxes, and lowering the barrier to entry for people who want to move up in the world.
D
Deleted member 88
Guest
True but they still have an odious connection to open borders and free speech plutocrats.
The John Boehner/Paul Ryan Republican Party needs to be finally put to rest.
Hopefully even if trump loses, the party will embrace a working class constituency that has been abandoned and outright spat on by the Dems.
The John Boehner/Paul Ryan Republican Party needs to be finally put to rest.
Hopefully even if trump loses, the party will embrace a working class constituency that has been abandoned and outright spat on by the Dems.
mesonoxian
Well-known member
That is a bunch of Spenglerian nonsense. Nations don't have wills, people do.
Embracing fascism is a choice. It is a choice that hurts people. People who do that are doing something gravely wrong.
Not all of antifa is communist. Some are, but it isn't like antifa is an army or a political movement. It is a loose mutual aid alliance of lots of distinct groups. They are all on the left but some of them are communists of different stripes, some are anarchists, and some SocDems.
Fascism is known for strong cooperation between public and private entities, with protectionist tariffs, a wide lattitude given to industry and often actual did support low taxes.
They aren't associated with personal liberties or egalitarianism, but neither is the Republican party.
My experience with Trump supporters comes from living in a county that voted 80% for Trump, and having relatives and in laws that support Trump.
It really depends. There are plenty of working class Democrats and many rich Republicans. The "small business owner" is archetypical bourgeousie, after all.
But neither part represents working class interests. Just one is worse about it than the other.
mesonoxian
Well-known member
Spengler was a pseudohistorian with no understanding of the material drivers of history. He had an embarrassingly shallow understanding of world history. Like all fascist thinking, it is a bunch of stories to make people feel tingly and doesn't address the actual reality of the world. (Quick edit to be clear, Spengler wasn't a fascist to my understanding. His thinking just shared the irrationality of fascist thought.)
"Identity to a group" is meaningless. Why is my being a white dude more important than any other arbitrary accident of birth?
The groups that matter are the ones I actually participate in. My family, my church, my friend group, and my community. "American" and "White" and "Male" are labels to hang on abstractions. Deciding that I should fight or die or kill over them is nonsense.
Fleiur
Well-known member
When did Trump centralize power? And if he did, was it any more than what his predecessor did?
mesonoxian
Well-known member
A lot of "small business owners" significantly exceed the petite bourgeousie. When you've got dozens of employees, you've definitely outstripped the concept.
Trump tried repeatedly to run things autocratically, making frequently unenforceable "executive orders" and not seeming to understand he didn't have absolute power. Fortunately, he wasn't competent enough to actually successfully take that kind of control. That said, I don't think Trump is himself a fascist. I think he has become the focal point for a fascist movement, but I think he's just an incompetent, casually bigoted grifter.
The presidency is already a grotesquely powerful position. It was bad in the 20th century and Bush and Obama just made it worse.
Actually that statement wasn't released by his department, it was released jointly by the Elections Infrastructure Government Coordinating Council & the Election Infrastructure Sector Coordinating Executive Committees.
Neither of which represent any department of the US government.
A full percentage point when dealing with hundreds of millions is very significant.
Especially when the claim was "he hasn't gotten more popular".
Also that was very specifically in reference to your claim of their claim of the election being secure, so try again.
mesonoxian
Well-known member
Wall Street spent over $74 million to back Joe Biden's run for president, topping Trump's haul
Biden's haul from Wall Street tops what Donald Trump and Barack Obama raked in but falls short of what Hillary Clinton raised in 2016.www.google.com
Redirect Notice
www.google.com
Upper-middle-class whites dominate Democratic Party, says analyst
Political analyst Bill Schneider on Monday said in an appearance on Hill.TV that upper class, whites have become a dominating force within the Democratic Party. “The Democratic Part…www.google.com
Here are some mainstream sources to show just how well heeled the “working man’s party” actually is. It’s the party of Wall Street masters of the universe and high paid corporate consultants, academic and NGO administrators, and HR department heads across the nation.
Yeah. And so are the Republicans. There are differences. The Republicans want to do a lot of things that are actively harmful with regards to civil rights, the environment, and the welfare of the poor, but fundamentally both parties are products of capital and coercion. It isn't good versus bad, it is bad versus worse.
Friendly Reminder - Let's cool it off a bit
The left has already rioted,assasinated,murdered and likely was responsible for the fires that killed people on the west coast. More of the same but the right doesnt have to worry about optics for election, fucking bring it. Especially if trump brings out the jackboots and uses his powers as the commander in chief of the military.I honestly can't fucking believe you think after the past 4 years of constant riots,arson,murder and muh 'punch a nazi' attacks on Trump supporters that the left haven't behaved as vile and needlessly violent trash people.
Also to preempt the old talking point of the fbi, they were saying the mystical 'white supremacists' were a bigger threat as antifa and blm burned down god knows how many cities and commited numerous crimes during, like the kid burning to death in his/her apartment. So i don't trust them to be impartial and apolitical, so fuck them too.
Especially when my decieving eyes can watch a skinny soi boi dressed in a hoody and all black be apprehended after setting some bushes on fire by based tough woman. The fact that lefties still try to lie about that is infuriating. Like we are all supposed to believe that the people setting fires and throwing molotovs couldn't hop in a car and go burn shit 20 minutes away. I hope Trump wins and i hope the left does it's worst so we can finally get rid of this cancerous commie bs.
If Trump doesn't pull this one from his ass then expect the next 4 years to be absolute hell after everything you put us through because it was 'her turn'. Those files about crack smoking loser hunter as well as kid fucker biden and his deals about the chinese still exist, wonder if thats impeachment worthy? I wonder how many skeleton's that fugly goblin caramel or wtf ever has from her prosecutor days? Even if Trump loses your in for hell commie scum.
LordsFire
Internet Wizard
Democrats want to:
1. Thoroughly institutionalize racism. Specifically have openly talked about 'paying reparations.'
2. Raise taxes.
3. Destroy the energy sector, and with it torpedo the economy as a whole.
What civil rights is it Republicans want to harm, exactly? Because I'm having a hard time remembering any such thing.
mesonoxian
Well-known member
And CISA is one of several groups that endorsed the statement, Trump credited to Krebs enough to fire him, and Krebs didn't back off from it.
Try what again? A 1% shift in the popular vote over 4 years doesn't matter very much. Hell, that much variation can be down to the weather. And how does that have anything to do with the fact Powell sold you a bill of goods?
I realized that getting railed by the Trump Train for the past 4 years have ruined your vision, but maybe magnify the page by 400% and read what I actually fucking said. Maybe you won't look like a complete dipshit if you do.
I really don't give a shit what Gohmert claimed. Not unless Gohmert is secretly Powell in a fucking wig and 2-inch thick make-up.
That system is not secure. These fuckwits couldn't get their system authorized in Texas because it failed basic penn testing. Affidavits specifically reference that it had easy end-user access and had multiple security failures. So unless Chris Krebs is also willing to write out an affidavits, what he says during an internal US power struggle is pretty meaningless.
Your ahem, professionals seem to include wikipedia editors, the New York Times, ABC, and the Associated Press. All of which routinely misrepresent Trump and are known enemies of his. It's like asking me to trust Fox News about Joe Biden's scandals.
We can't know what's baseless in this situation, because it is proven that our media sources will lie to us when properly motivated. So the fact that AP, NYT, or whoever else you want to cite says one thing, does not make it true. And it's a rather large waste of my time to try and use those sources as if they are in any way authoritative when you yourself decry them later on the next page.
And even if that were not the case, how exhaustive was the list of yellow-page journalism in the past four years, from both political sources, in regards to rumors? You can't prove jack these days without either sufficiently strong evidence made public or you have people coming forward, willing to go on record as having said it.
That's why all those "leaks" during Trump's first two years always ended at a dry well; it was bullshit disseminated to gullible reporters or maliciously written misleading articles intent on harming Trump's position. Now, is everything that Powell said true?
Not likely.
Is it coherent and plausible? Very much so. Electronic cheating could be easily implemented if officials were willing to look the other way. Could our data be easily sent overseas to Germany without anyone knowing? Certainly. Is it reasonable to suggest that someone might cheat by siphoning off points from Trump's total and adding it onto Biden to avoid an overcount? Certainly.
Is it proven? No. And Trump's legal team and Powell have admitted that; it has yet to be proven. Right now they are gathering evidence to PROVE it in the courts. Running around and screaming about how things are baseless is just pointless. Claiming you know anything as solid fact is just appeal to authority.
And THAT could be true. But it's also unlikely that this is the case. Not highly unlikely, but unlikely. Biden had lower in-party support than Hillary Clinton--and yet he got a much higher turnout. That is simply NOT how the Democratic party works. That's a tough sell, even for Republicans. And the major advantage of the Republicans is their willingness to move in lock-step. The Democrats are somewhat opposite; they can't agree on policy-based campaigns and so turnout drops like a rock. They need someone with a strong personality to drive them into the voting booths and they flood out the Republicans every time it happens. See Obama and Bill Clinton.
In addition to this, Biden was presiding over a very divided Democrat party. For this to be legit would mean that it's the biggest fluke of a lifetime. More likely it means that someone somewhere cheated.
No, this is factually wrong.
Trump is a symptom of something else and it has nothing to do with beating minorities or Qanon bullshit or big companies raping the land.
It's about breaking down the American Empire.
No, we're not actually an empire, but most people understand it as such. What we really are is a global hegemon. One that formally had been embattled with a rival global hegemon for control of the world. And to ensure that our rival could not threaten us, we made a deal with Europe that eventually expanded to cover the whole world; "we open your markets and we lead the fight against the Soviets".
That means that France could sell all of its exports into the American market without any trade barriers or restrictions. What that didn't mean was the US being able to do the same in France. You want to sell Parmesan in France? Well, you better label it something else, because only Parmesan Cheese made in Parmesan, France can use that label. Or Sparkling Wine? And God knows that Canada has had an absurd 300-400% trade wall against American dairy for the sake of protecting its own dairy industry. Or states using government subsidies to lower the cost of their own goods to outcompete American farmers who don't get those subsidies in the USA.
Then if that wasn't enough, Clinton--in all his fucking wisdom, decided to allow US companies to export their factories overseas to China. Because all those greedy pigs you (for some reason) think support Trump, are not happy that they're going to have to pay closer to $22 an hour for steel work jobs instead of say, $5 an hour if those products were made in the USA. That isn't to say that Clinton's bill didn't have some advantages; it allowed for cheap production of high quality technology such as smart phones, laptops, desktops, TVs, and so on.
I mean, it also mean enabled the Chinese to commit mass genocide in a security state powered by fucking Google, but small prices, am I right? And who needs all those high paying jobs in places like Arizona, Texas, New Mexico, or California when you can just hand a small African boy a hand shovel, a bucket, and push him into a deep hole so he can mine it by hand? Sure he'll never stop having nightmares from the putrid smell of the dead boys who never made it back, but he's likely to die in six months anyhow!
Trump's policies represent the decoupling of all these things. But why?
Well, the current supply chains to make a phone or a laptop are spread out from Africa to the South China Sea to China to South Korea to Japan. And when the US pulls back, it will create a power vacuum. When that power vacuum is exposed, you can expect energy shortages, famine, and territorial disputes erupt all across the known world.
The Chinese can't secure their own energy resources from the Gulf states. Sure, they look as though they have a massive naval force--and they do, but they're brown water, not blue water. They're not intended to do anything than defend China's coast and may strike at nearby nations such as Taiwan. Worse, even if China COULD secure their own oil, they would need a market to sell it to and with a protectionist America, that closes. Especially because Mexican labor is closer, isn't a perceived security threat, is cheaper, and is actually more educated on whole than the Chinese labor pool.
It also solves the illegal immigration problem.
Saudi Arabia, with the US out of the picture, is going to be the primary target of the Iranian military. Whether they can pull it off with their second-rate technology and empty bank account is questionable, but I for one never bet against Arabian military incompetence. The only reason Trump hasn't pulled out of Saudi Arabia is both because he gets resistance from the Pentagon AND because the Saudis are literally paying for us to be there. After Trump, that is likely to end.
Why? Because Americans have seen what the Saudis do to dissenting reporters and we don't need their fucking oil anymore.
And finally, leaving Europe will reignite the long-asked German Question. Germany is too powerful for its neighbors comfort. And that generally results in a European war--the last two times (of two) it went global and resulted in the US essentially occupying half of Germany and Russia the other half. At this same time, Germany's immensely powerful economy has sucked the economic strength of southern Europe dry...while also lending them billions (or trillions) of dollars that is in some cases, literally impossible to buy out. To make matters even worse, Germany is an export-led economy, meaning that its domestic market cannot absorb its production. They need to send it somewhere else. And unfortunately for them, the rest of Europe is aging rapidly; the Millennial and Zoomer generation is not as evident in those countries.
Why is that double devastating? Because it means not only do they need access to as many markets as possible in order to sustain the very model of economy of capitalism, but they also can't fill the role of the US due to the sheer amount of costs it would entail, as well as the fact that China would need to export to THEIR market to make up for the loss of the US market.
And that brings us to Russia. Which has far worse demographics than the rest of Europe. At the same time they see the US pulling out, they realize that in 10-20 years, they will not have the military capacity to hold Russia's territory. Their only option is to find the narrowest part of the European plain and plug it to prevent Napoleon War 3.0 from driving their tanks all the way to Moscow. Even worse than that is that because their education system went tits up in the fall of the Soviet Union, the people most capable of maintaining their technology in the highest numbers are going to die in like 10-20 years.
Why is that bad? Because the most narrow part of the European plain that Russia can latch onto is halfway through Poland. So if the Russians want a chance at their country not falling apart, they have to drive their military forces all the way through several countries to secure it. And they'll do it piecemeal so the US won't feel threatened and warn the Europeans that if they get involved...well, no gas for them.
These are all strategic disasters that will ignite massive wars, destroy supply chains, raise the cost of labor (as it becomes American labor), and absolutely destroys developing (and developed) countries. That's why the neo-cons and neo-liberals HATE him. That's why massive companies that rely upon those same supply chains to cut labor costs (but not end market costs, am I right?)--one of them being tech companies such as Microsoft and Google want Trump out of office.
But for the average American? It means replacing Chinese jobs with American jobs. Or Mexican jobs. Even if only 1 out of 4 of those jobs go to the USA and the rest go to Mexico, the US gains a stronger blue collar work force and the strengthened Mexican economy (which is already #11 in the world) becomes more attractive for potential illegal immigrants, either from Mexico or south of Mexico. Which in turn lessens the strain on race relations within the USA.
The downside for the US is relatively small, the benefits are huge.
It's just that a few billionaires, socialists globalists, and most of the remaining states on the planet lose hard.
Fleiur
Well-known member
I fail to see him acting any differently than Obama... Except for not weaponizing the IRS.
Or knocking over another country. Or knocking over another another country.
1% shift? Um, no. That isn't what people are worried about. The popular vote is what the DNC tells its low-information voters to try and justify being complete fucking failures. The popular vote is the accumulation of 50 different popular votes held within 50 different, semi-autonomous states that each choose their own electors to determine who they will vote for on the federal level. No, they aren't shitting themselves because 1% of the voter turnout flipped for Trump.
They're shitting themselves because Trump GREW his voter base by 15% on the current tally count. They're shitting themselves because they lost races that they should have won. They're shitting themselves because after 4 years of a full on press against Trump, including trying to impeach the poor fucker, he not only DIDN'T lose support (unlike Obama), he gained support.
That suggests that the Republicans have found a new way forward. It means the neo-cons can't retake the GOP. It means that Wisconsin and Michigan are no longer safe blue states. It means that Florida and Ohio are comfortable GOP states. And all the while they have to deal with an uprising within the Progressive Left of the party, who are not satisfied with how the Neo-Liberals have managed the past four years. And neither are the moderates within the party.
D
Deleted member 88
Guest
The greatest problem for the republicans in the future will be actually implementing Trumpist policies. It’s easy to embrace the rhetoric but you have to deliver the goods.
If they don’t deliver then they will struggle to compete against Democrat IDpol.
That said, I do think the republicans future is in the working class, it’s in their own interests to be so as time goes on.
If they don’t deliver then they will struggle to compete against Democrat IDpol.
That said, I do think the republicans future is in the working class, it’s in their own interests to be so as time goes on.