Business & Finance Economic Fallout: Pandemic, Brandon, Money Printer Go Brr, Ukraine.

Batrix2070

RON/PLC was a wonderful country.
, I prefer to be dependent for my energy on them than
Well, you prefer it, but Europe doesn't necessarily. The other thing is that this action unwittingly just opens a can of questions, if you can cut yourself off from Europe's heaviest resources in the name of political goals, why can't you just take the industry back to yourself?
We were perfectly fine with the Russians
You Bulgarians are in favor, but that's just you. Nobody will care about you, and if you are even more so, you know, somebody in the West will think that maybe it is better to pacify you? You know, in this case I wouldn't shit on my own government if it's the only one standing between being in a pretty average but tolerable state on the periphery of Europe and being a complete hole where nobody wants to come because it's on the other side of the conflict and it stupidly supported the wrong side.
We Poles know quite well how you can twist your life for the worse. For example the November or January Uprising. Without them we would have been much better off, and maybe we would have won our independence earlier. Or we would become much more valuable part of the empire, which could not be pacified without severe problems. Let the fact speak that 1/3 of all wealth in the Russian Empire was produced by small Poland, and I emphasize that since the fall of the November Uprising we had all the time the martial law on our territory. So I would rather be less hasty in this argument.
We need somebody like Orban.
Well, it would be useful, but remember. Bulgaria is on the periphery of the EU, while Hungary is an important transport point. They can play that way, Bulgaria the EU can abandon without much harm, they have Romania.
 

Floridaman

Well-known member
I wasn't aware you thought the Trump and Biden administrations were both taking us in a completely wrong direction. I meant Russia, as opposed to (paraphrased) "schizophrenically changing direction every four years" per Arch Dornan i.e. USA.

So to be clear, do you think that there's no possibility that Ukraine fights off Russia and Russia doesn't respond by flipping the table and doing their best to end human civilization? Or is it just that you want Russia to win period? I disagree with both. Or maybe I'm misunderstanding how you intend "cease to exist as an independent nation".
I feel Trump tried to stop the collapse, but was blocked at every turn. And Biden decided the highway to hell wasn't fast enough and moved us to the express lane
 

Agent23

Ни шагу назад!
Well, you prefer it, but Europe doesn't necessarily. The other thing is that this action unwittingly just opens a can of questions, if you can cut yourself off from Europe's heaviest resources in the name of political goals, why can't you just take the industry back to yourself?
You Poles always bitch about Europe and losing sovereignty to it, and now you are concerned with it?!?
You know the major problem to that, the EU is a shadow protectionist racket and it will be harder for us to sell goods and services unless we are in or at least tow the party line.
They have fucked on numerous occasions with the Swiss and forced them to sign all sorts of agreements, for example.

You Bulgarians are in favor, but that's just you. Nobody will care about you, and if you are even more so, you know, somebody in the West will think that maybe it is better to pacify you? You know, in this case I wouldn't shit on my own government if it's the only one standing between being in a pretty average but tolerable state on the periphery of Europe and being a complete hole where nobody wants to come because it's on the other side of the conflict and it stupidly supported the wrong side.
Ah, yes, the USA and the EU might do what they accuse Russia and China of doing.
Fuck em!

We Poles know quite well how you can twist your life for the worse. For example the November or January Uprising. Without them we would have been much better off, and maybe we would have won our independence earlier. Or we would become much more valuable part of the empire, which could not be pacified without severe problems. Let the fact speak that 1/3 of all wealth in the Russian Empire was produced by small Poland, and I emphasize that since the fall of the November Uprising we had all the time the martial law on our territory. So I would rather be less hasty in this argument.
Being "neutral" and buying and selling shit from both sides is my preferred option, but I despise Atlanticists/Neolibs/the western MSM too much and find then and their countries mercurial and prone to retarded groupthink and spergouts.

Well, it would be useful, but remember. Bulgaria is on the periphery of the EU, while Hungary is an important transport point. They can play that way, Bulgaria the EU can abandon without much harm, they have Romania.
Periphery?

You are the periphery, being stuck between Europe and the Russian sphere.

We are in the middle of the Balkans and have Danube access, you do realize that is the silk road through which a major portion of Eurasian trade flowed(And will hopefully flow again, with the new silk road)?
 

Batrix2070

RON/PLC was a wonderful country.
You Poles always bitch about Europe and losing sovereignty to it, and now you are concerned with it?!?
You know the major problem to that, the EU is a shadow protectionist racket and it will be harder for us to sell goods and services unless we are in or at least tow the party line.
Complaining is our national sport, didn't you know that? Another thing is that now we are between EU and Russia, we prefer EU because we got to know Russians hospitality too well. And the only thing we wish them is the worst. Let Russia fall to pieces, we don't need it, we don't want it. And without Russia Germany will also be in the ass. So we get rid of two problems in one go. Germany doesn't want Russia in its ass, and it doesn't want to be cut off from its raw materials.
Ah, yes, the USA and the EU might do what they accuse Russia and China of doing.
Fuck em!
Well, Russia and China will do it the hard way, the US and EU the soft way but the effect will be the same. The problem is that the EU has a lot of money among ordinary people and the Russians would not necessarily invest in your country. And Chinese investment only serves the Chinese people.
Being "neutral" and buying and selling shit from both sides is my preferred option, but I despise Atlanticists/Neolibs/the western MSM too much and find then and their countries mercurial and prone to retarded groupthink and spergouts.
Don't worry, kid. This is called the action of a young and reckless head. Right away, like an idiot, you want to throw yourself at the West in the name of what? Hatred for him? Such actions will harm Bulgaria in the long run more than you think. In fact, you are in the ass, you are supposedly in the West, but with your other foot in the East. But you will eventually be forced to choose and pay the price for it. Measure your strength against your intentions. Otherwise the only thing you'll get is a kick in the balls and taking what you have.
Periphery?
You are the periphery, being stuck between Europe and the Russian sphere.
That last one has me laughing. The Chinese, just the other day, are holding off on the New Route. That is, for now, a more distant future than you think. They have their own problems, and serious ones at that. Remember China is over 300 million Poles and 800 million Somalis when it comes to wealth.

They don't really count yet, just the media in the US that famous MSM barking for sowing fear.

And as for the periphery, you do realize that without us Germany is also in the ass because those factories of theirs are largely located in ours? We are much more important than you are. We can't be left out so easily. We are on the frontline, and you are surprised that we want to destroy one of the sides? As for now, what you're saying is a song of the future, and Poland is a very important, even the most important East-West land route, and in the near future North-South. Bulgaria is a fart, no offence, but the EU will survive, it has Romania and Greece.
 

Bassoe

Well-known member
The first option. If Ukraine was winning, they wouldn't be begging foreigners for weapons and money and to start nuclear WW3 on their behalf, conscripting their entire male population as cannon fodder, maintaining a redditor foreign legion, etc. Plus, all their heroic stories which keep turning out to be complete lies, the Ghost fighter ace, the islanders defiently committing suicide rather than just surrendering, etc.
 

Batrix2070

RON/PLC was a wonderful country.
The first option. If Ukraine was winning, they wouldn't be begging foreigners for weapons and money and to start nuclear WW3 on their behalf, conscripting their entire male population as cannon fodder, maintaining a redditor foreign legion, etc.
Neither Russia nor Ukraine is winning, both sides are at an impasse. And help is always asked for because as I recall the Ukrainian army is the 22nd army in the world, the Russian army is the second army in the world. How can it not ask for help in this situation?
As for the nuclear World War III, I think it's the biggest nonsense in the world, when it comes down to it, both sides will keep their hands off the nuclear buttons, they want to win the war, not kill each other.
The other thing is that such a war will not be fought until the final surrender, because we have the atom, but until a certain moment, like centuries ago.
In fact, we should be afraid of a classic WWIII, not a nuclear one. The latter will last a few minutes and end with the destruction of some of the world's cities (and even here I think that the whole thing with all of us dying is a deliberate exaggeration in order to refrain from a classical war), the classical one will be a maneuvering war in the trenches in which both sides will suffer huge losses in battles. The first week is expected to be as bloody as the Battle of Somna/Verdun.
 
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Arch Dornan

Oh, lovely. They've sent me a mo-ron.
I wasn't aware you thought the Trump and Biden administrations were both taking us in a completely wrong direction. I meant Russia, as opposed to (paraphrased) "schizophrenically changing direction every four years" per Arch Dornan i.e. USA.
Russia since Putin's in charge has been with people the rest of the world is familiar with enough on their intentions. The invasion while a surprise is bound to happen with the border skirmishes for Ukraine to edge their way back getting what they lost.

Meanwhile since 2016 there's the coming of Trump and then Biden from Republican to Democrat with foreign policies not exactly contrary to each other. Let's say this keeps happening from Democrat to Republican to Democrat to Republican every four years to satisfy the demands of so and so all the Tom, Dicks and Harrys but making others unhappy breaking the promises of the previous administration while crises after crisis happens the USA will no longer be seen as reliable.
 
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strunkenwhite

Well-known member
The first option. If Ukraine was winning, they wouldn't be begging foreigners for weapons and money and to start nuclear WW3 on their behalf, conscripting their entire male population as cannon fodder, maintaining a redditor foreign legion, etc. Plus, all their heroic stories which keep turning out to be complete lies, the Ghost fighter ace, the islanders defiently committing suicide rather than just surrendering, etc.
This is a fundamental misunderstanding. Ukraine is winning because of all the foreign weapons and money (as well as its own well-trained and determined military forces). If not for the logistical support I have little doubt that Russia could have overrrun Ukrainian defenses (at much greater cost than expected) and transitioned into the "disastrous occupation" phase of its national suicide attempt. But Ukraine did get that support, is continuing to get that support, and to every indication will continue to get that support—more, if anything.

Russia will not conquer Ukraine. I don't think Russia will end the world over it.
 

Agent23

Ни шагу назад!
Complaining is our national sport, didn't you know that? Another thing is that now we are between EU and Russia, we prefer EU because we got to know Russians hospitality too well. And the only thing we wish them is the worst. Let Russia fall to pieces, we don't need it, we don't want it. And without Russia Germany will also be in the ass. So we get rid of two problems in one go. Germany doesn't want Russia in its ass, and it doesn't want to be cut off from its raw materials.
No, it is ours and we had statehood long before you Armored Chickenmen ever did!
z7q3m8o3w4431.jpg

In particular, we love to bitch about how government is incompetent, corrupt and not doing x,y and z.
"i told you it will get worse/things will fuck up..." is like a national catch phrase. :D
Well, Russia and China will do it the hard way, the US and EU the soft way but the effect will be the same. The problem is that the EU has a lot of money among ordinary people and the Russians would not necessarily invest in your country. And Chinese investment only serves the Chinese people.
Russia has food, fertilizers and energy, China has cheap tech, both don't give a rat's ass about western IP now.
It is not just the numbers, I for example can make more nominally if I moved to Switzerland or Germany, I have had a bunch of offers, but between the taxes and the higher prices any nominal increase will evaporate and I will end up earning less.

Don't worry, kid. This is called the action of a young and reckless head. Right away, like an idiot, you want to throw yourself at the West in the name of what? Hatred for him? Such actions will harm Bulgaria in the long run more than you think. In fact, you are in the ass, you are supposedly in the West, but with your other foot in the East. But you will eventually be forced to choose and pay the price for it. Measure your strength against your intentions. Otherwise the only thing you'll get is a kick in the balls and taking what you have.
Kid, eh?
I was pretty sure that you weren't on SB when I first joined it, "gramps".

More to the point, I always thought that Bulgaria should be a Switzerland on the Balkans, trade with everyone, don't mix up in their affairs, make money and put national interests first.
Kicking out the EU will have multiple benefits, like the ability to get rid of their retarded green policies and mandatory sky-high VAT, their stupid taxes on E-commerce, you name it.
Also it will make it harder for them to poach our medical professionals.

Now, we must differnetiate between the west as a whole, which is probably 70% Anglospheric, and the EU.
TL;DR it will be great if we could Make the EU Great Again, and force it to ditch much of the anti-growth bullshit, aggressively reform the ECB, and drive out all the woke garbage and US/UK puppeteering that occurs.
Obviously we will still need to coordinate on foreign policy, but to a far lesser degree than the shit we have with Ursula von der Horseass.

I want the EU to be a third force, not beholden to the USA or the Russia-China sphere.
That might require ditching NATO and creating an EU defense initiative, with more per-country spending for arms and with Sweden and France and Germany making bank on the weapons systems we will all buy, but it is a negligible price for independence.
The EU was originally a rightwing project!


That last one has me laughing. The Chinese, just the other day, are holding off on the New Route. That is, for now, a more distant future than you think. They have their own problems, and serious ones at that. Remember China is over 300 million Poles and 800 million Somalis when it comes to wealth.
Once again, we are at the difference between money and resources.
I am pretty sure that I can get a latest model Xiaomi in China for far less than it is sold in Warsaw or Sofia, for example.

They don't really count yet, just the media in the US that famous MSM barking for sowing fear.

And as for the periphery, you do realize that without us Germany is also in the ass because those factories of theirs are largely located in ours? We are much more important than you are. We can't be left out so easily. We are on the frontline, and you are surprised that we want to destroy one of the sides? As for now, what you're saying is a song of the future, and Poland is a very important, even the most important East-West land route, and in the near future North-South. Bulgaria is a fart, no offence, but the EU will survive, it has Romania and Greece.
It will no longer have continuous access to Greece for one, and I think we can push the damned fuckers a lot more than you think, since this is a prestige thing with them.
We just beed someone like Tato to finess them, the way he finessed and extracted stuff from the USSR.
 

Captain X

Well-known member
Osaul
Sanctions is fine, if we're going to do something. A unified response via the UN, perhaps? Perhaps talking, even some threats, to Putin, not just going "RAGH! EVELS!".
Threats of what? And in the meantime the invasion continues.

You know, something involving actual thought, not "This nation we're not allied with, we're not friends with are being invaded, LETS START WW3!"
That is not representative of what's happening now.

I'm being serious.

I've done a bit of looking into this. There was no serious threat of invasion that I saw up until relatively recently, when Zelenski was talking, threatening, really, to join NATO.

I might have missed something, I wasn't looking very deeply, and it's not like I speak Russian.
You don't have to speak Russian, you just have to see that even when Ukraine had a President friendly to Russia, Russia was still unhappy because Ukraine wasn't being a complete pushover to Russia, and that they had any kind of trade relationship with Europe. They also annexed part of the country in 2014, and have undoubtedly been involved in the breakaway movements that Russia used as their excuse to invade to begin with. You also have Russian leadership referring to Ukraine as an artificial country and the like. So if you haven't noticed any of this, you just haven't been paying attention.
 

Batrix2070

RON/PLC was a wonderful country.
No, it is ours and we had statehood long before you Armored Chickenmen ever did!
And you were lost much earlier than we were. You were conquered because you were exhausted from the war, we were torn to shreds only to be put back on the map two decades later as a small duchy then turned into a kingdom in union, then united with a huge empire so in theory we were helping you to liberate yourselves. :LOL:

That's why I like the meme that says, Remember when Poland was from the Baltic to the Pacific.
Another thing is that I'm reading the book that ATP recommended to me, and I honestly see that the Idea of taking over Russia from the middle makes sense.
And it gave me an idea for a crazy time-line, under the title Welcome to Rosja, whose double-headed white eagle is a sign, a slogan for your freedom and ours, and the power is held by Rosjan instead of русский.

More specifically on the principle in which the Greeks called themselves Romanoi and considered themselves the Empire of Rome. But it would be an ungodly mixture, the Russians being in reality Russified Poles in their guise.

In particular, we love to bitch about how government is incompetent, corrupt and not doing x,y and z.
"i told you it will get worse/things will fuck up..." is like a national catch phrase
In our country, complaining takes on the appearance of, and this is fucked up, and that is broken, why is it so expensive, they steal from the trough. And it's better in the West in country X and why can't it be so in our country!
Russia has food, fertilizers and energy, China has cheap tech, both don't give a rat's ass about western IP now.
It is not just the numbers, I for example can make more nominally if I moved to Switzerland or Germany, I have had a bunch of offers, but between the taxes and the higher prices any nominal increase will evaporate and I will end up earning less.
Nothing against it here, but all over the West you have all that plus cash, yes the whole thing croaks but at least here you have naive idealists to convince and not cynics.
refers to your reactions that sometimes look like a child's rather than your age.
I want the EU to be a third force
And here we have the biggest joke, I'd rather the EU blow its stupid snout off in a while,when we can out of it and then walk away.
The EU was originally a rightwing project!
Yes, but as we say, whatever you do, do wisely and expect the end. Just because it was idea X, doesn't mean it will end up being idea X. The damn commies stole it from us. The other thing is that the right wing's idea was the European Commonwealth, not the Union!
More to the point, I always thought that Bulgaria should be a Switzerland
All in all, it fits, a small insignificant country in a difficult place. Just wanting to make cash and watch the world burn. You were Balkan Prussia, you can be Switzerland.
Also it will make it harder for them to poach our medical professionals
And now look at the emigration of over 7 million people from Poland, which means that since the 90s we have not increased our population. And the huge population growth in Western countries among Poles. Yes, we have a fucking problem as you.
Once again, we are at the difference between money and resources.
I am pretty sure that I can get a latest model Xiaomi in China for far less than it is sold in Warsaw or Sofia, for example.
Well yes, a product will be much cheaper in the country where it is produced, if there was a Bulgarian brand of phones it would inherently be cheaper in Bulgaria than elsewhere.
t will no longer have continuous access to Greece for one, and I think we can push the damned fuckers a lot more than you think, since this is a prestige thing with them.
We just beed someone like Tato to finess them, the way he finessed and extracted stuff from the USSR.
Oh, you sure make a lot of messes and messes. The SV/SB lefties don't even realize how much someone can wreck the EU even being such a small country. Now imagine what kind of mess we Poles can make to destroy the EU, because I don't know, we may be the 5th economy of the EU now, but with our damn huge connection to Germany we can with the right moves even destroy it. And after all Germany is the heart of the EU.
And in case of a fantasy scenario, I don't know, something suddenly takes Poland out of the world, then the Germans will smash their stupid snout and the whole world with them.
But as I say, at the end of the day Bulgaria is a small part of a huge whole, for there to be a major catastrophe in the EU after Bulgaria the situation must have been very bad before. But we have a rather bloody stalemate.
 
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Bacle

When the effort is no longer profitable...
Founder
Well, there's plenty of ecconomic consiquences to the US involvment in that war.


No the main topic, though.
This thread was literally started as a spill-over thread for the economic affects of the war, the lingering issues from the Wu FLu, and the odd fires that keep damaging US civie infrastructure.

So Vatnik23 can sit and spin on his attempt to be a mini-mod, something he's tried elsewhere to dodge having to deal with the debate on hand.
 

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