Business & Finance Economic Fallout: Pandemic, Brandon, Money Printer Go Brr, Ukraine.

[SchrodingersWehraboo]

. I mean, there serious questions about how much of Russia's nuke stockpile is actually in operational shape, and how many of their warheads have been properly serviced/refurbished since the end of the Cold War.

This cowboy shit about russian nukes being questionably operational needs to be canned fast, it’s how billions of people die and the earth gets rendered uninhabitable. Also, good luck convincing people that the right needs to “clean house” while you exhibit the worst kind of gung-ho neocon assessments about America’s rivals.

 

[Arch Dornan]

MSN

www.msn.com

Didn't they get debt trapped by China?

 

[Captain X]

This cowboy shit about russian nukes being questionably operational needs to be canned fast, it’s how billions of people die and the earth gets rendered uninhabitable. Also, good luck convincing people that the right needs to “clean house” while you exhibit the worst kind of gung-ho neocon assessments about America’s rivals.

In any case, we cannot allow ourselves to be bullied every time someone threatens to use nukes. That was basically the entire Cold War. Frankly we just need to remind Russia that MAD is a thing and we will throw nukes ourselves if it comes down to it.

What Russia has done and is still currently doing is wrong and it needs to see consequences for it. I am perfectly fine with giving weapons and equipment to Ukraine so it can defend itself, and sanctioning Russia in response to what it has done.

 

[Simonbob]

What Russia has done and is still currently doing is wrong and it needs to see consequences for it. I am perfectly fine with giving weapons and equipment to Ukraine so it can defend itself, and sanctioning Russia in response to what it has done.

I'm not. This is picking a war with Russia via proxy, and they see it. What the Russians are going to do about it, that's a seperate question, but make no mistake, the US is effectively at war with Russia.

This "World's Policeman" stuff really needs to be thought through.


It would have been better if the US could have come in and made a diplomatic forum so things could have been settled in other ways, but that should have happened years before this war.

The roots of this fight are years old. And no side is innocent.

 

[Captain X]

I'm not. This is picking a war with Russia via proxy, and they see it.

And they really can't say anything considering their own history.

What the Russians are going to do about it, that's a seperate question, but make no mistake, the US is effectively at war with Russia.

We were effectively at war with them during the Cold War, too. They also literally had pilots in planes fighting ours during Korea, just as an example.

This "World's Policeman" stuff really needs to be thought through.

Do you think it is okay for Russia to conquer other nations as it sees fit, or do you not?

It would have been better if the US could have come in and made a diplomatic forum so things could have been settled in other ways, but that should have happened years before this war.

Russia made it clear that this was never an option. This can be observed given their actions both in the immediate lead-up to its invasion, and by how it acted toward Ukraine even when there was a President who was friendly to them.

The roots of this fight are years old. And no side is innocent.

And?

 

[Simonbob]

Do you think it is okay for Russia to conquer other nations as it sees fit, or do you not?

Not partiualy, no.

Neither should the US.

Russia made it clear that this was never an option. This can be observed given their actions both in the immediate lead-up to its invasion, and by how it acted toward Ukraine even when there was a President who was friendly to them.

What actions are you talking about?

 

[Captain X]

Not partiualy, no.

Okay, so it has, so what do you propose be done in response to that?

Neither should the US.

Can you even once not play the "what about" game?

What actions are you talking about?

What a great impression of a gaslighting leftist.

 

[Simonbob]

Okay, so it has, so what do you propose be done in response to that?

Sanctions is fine, if we're going to do something. A unified response via the UN, perhaps? Perhaps talking, even some threats, to Putin, not just going "RAGH! EVELS!".

You know, something involving actual thought, not "This nation we're not allied with, we're not friends with are being invaded, LETS START WW3!"

What a great impression of a gaslighting leftist.

I'm being serious.

I've done a bit of looking into this. There was no serious threat of invasion that I saw up until relatively recently, when Zelenski was talking, threatening, really, to join NATO.


I might have missed something, I wasn't looking very deeply, and it's not like I speak Russian.

 

[Arch Dornan]

Sanctions is fine, if we're going to do something. A unified response via the UN, perhaps? Perhaps talking, even some threats, to Putin, not just going "RAGH! EVELS!".

You know, something involving actual thought, not "This nation we're not allied with, we're not friends

It's a catch 22.

The problem is Putin got the EU cucked to Russian gas.

Russia unlike Iran or North Korea is not so easily isolated for the rest of the world to follow in line for their continental system and even has existing resources other countries need to achieve enough autarky.

But they're as they're well connected ideologically they're compelled to sink their economic futures to fuck with Russia the tax payers will have to shoulder the burden and tighten their belts. The energy bills and cost of everything is going up now.

The only question left is how much more is the Western leadership going to gamble their political futures on?

I'm being serious.

I've done a bit of looking into this. There was no serious threat of invasion that I saw up until relatively recently, when Zelenski was talking, threatening, really, to join NATO.


I might have missed something, I wasn't looking very deeply, and it's not like I speak Russian.

Probably the previous skirmishes involving the Crimea or Donbass.

 

[Arch Dornan]

Businesses in Germany going bankrupt

Germany is feeling the pinch of the anti-Russian sanctions more than any European country.

www.presstv.ir

 

[Arch Dornan]

https://www.clipperoil.com/news/greece-leads-resistance-to-ban-on-european-tankers-transporting-russian-oil/

They don't want to do it for Ukraine.

 

[Arlos]

https://www.clipperoil.com/news/greece-leads-resistance-to-ban-on-european-tankers-transporting-russian-oil/

They don't want to do it for Ukraine.

Neither do I
Living is getting hard.

 

[LordsFire]

Yeah, by India saying fuck it and joining the Eurasian block that is currently forming.

Do you really think India and China are going to be able to be part of the same power bloc? Neither will suffer anyone else leading a bloc like that.

I'm not. This is picking a war with Russia via proxy, and they see it. What the Russians are going to do about it, that's a seperate question, but make no mistake, the US is effectively at war with Russia.

No we're not. If we were, the Russian military would have been crushed, and there's good odds of nukes flying by now. The US military has issues, but as has been aptly demonstrated, the Russian military has much worse issues.

Frankly, at this point we aren't even properly at the level of a proxy war. We're getting there, but selling them weapons does not make it a proxy war. Selling them on credit is a step closer to a proxy war, but still not quite there yet.

Also, in regards to the nuclear question, it probably is true that a lot of Russian nuclear delivery systems and/or warheads aren't as functional as they claim. Given they have thousands of nukes, they still have way, way more than we want them to launch. If things do go nuclear, 1200 warheads going out is much preferable to 2000 warheads, but still way more than you want to deal with.

 

[Agent23]

Do you really think India and China are going to be able to be part of the same power bloc? Neither will suffer anyone else leading a bloc like that.

it will probably be more like an alliance of convenience with Russia being the balancer/go-between

Also, happy bear market, everybody!

 

[Bacle]

This cowboy shit about russian nukes being questionably operational needs to be canned fast, it’s how billions of people die and the earth gets rendered uninhabitable. Also, good luck convincing people that the right needs to “clean house” while you exhibit the worst kind of gung-ho neocon assessments about America’s rivals.

This is something I doubted too, till I did some reading about how the Soviets and then Russians designed and cycled thier warheads.

The fact is that the corruption and graft in the Russian gov extends to thier nuclear forces as well. They had to stop using ballistic missile trains because they were so prone to graft and bits disappearing.

I'm not a neocon, but I am also not someone who ignores new data out of pride or ego. The stuff I've seen makes me think that right now, if 1/3 nukes in Russia works as advertised, they'll be lucky.

 

[Arch Dornan]

Neither do I
Living is getting hard.

You have a sense of self preservation I can't fault you for.

 

[Agent23]

You have a sense of self preservation I can't fault you for.

Well, some people have to, considering some retards on our side think that a nuclear war with Russia is winable because ree, ree, ree.

Frankly, the Ukraine juice wasn't worth the squeeze before the war started, and Europe is fucked economically.
More industry moving to China soon.

 

[Batrix2070]

Frankly, the Ukraine juice wasn't worth the squeeze before the war started, and Europe is fucked economically.
More industry moving to China soon.

I don't know where you read this, but companies are just now coming back from China. Slowly but inexorably the political will is going the other way. And Europe was fucked either way economically, maybe the Ukraine war saved us from a worse fate and gave us the opportunity to go downhill in a less spectacular way. It's a pity about Bulgaria, of course, but this is the fate you have chosen for yourselves, after all, something for something, or cheap resources from the Russians, but in return you become dependent on them, because it's not profitable to import them from another region, so if the Russians want to, they can force them on you, or not, so we go for a more expensive alternative, looking for other sources of raw materials, which backfires, but in return we are independent from Russia and we can respond to all their threats, so what?
Not everything comes down to economics, dear sir. If it were, Poland wouldn't be on the map or we wouldn't be trying to get out of Russia's hands because it was more profitable for us to be in it. And yet we broke out of it after which when it wanted us back we kicked and bit.
That's why I wouldn't discount the role of economics. There is something else besides it, a lot of things that were done that were not rational from an economic point of view, but they were done and after some time it worked out for the good.

 

[Agent23]

I don't know where you read this, but companies are just now coming back from China. Slowly but inexorably the political will is going the other way. And Europe was fucked either way economically, maybe the Ukraine war saved us from a worse fate and gave us the opportunity to go downhill in a less spectacular way. It's a pity about Bulgaria, of course, but this is the fate you have chosen for yourselves, after all, something for something, or cheap resources from the Russians, but in return you become dependent on them, because it's not profitable to import them from another region, so if the Russians want to, they can force them on you, or not, so we go for a more expensive alternative, looking for other sources of raw materials, which backfires, but in return we are independent from Russia and we can respond to all their threats, so what?
Not everything comes down to economics, dear sir. If it were, Poland wouldn't be on the map or we wouldn't be trying to get out of Russia's hands because it was more profitable for us to be in it. And yet we broke out of it after which when it wanted us back we kicked and bit.

China, Indonesia, Malaisia, Mexico or Latin America, our industrial base is fucked and we lost a massive near-by market.
We were perfectly fine with the Russians until someone and their proxies decided to stage this whole Twatter spergout.
Frankly, I prefer to be dependent for my energy on them than on Qatar or Saudi Arabia or the USA, oil embargo and US sanctions, anyone?

The biggest problem ATM is that we have cucked, astroturfed slimebag deep state toadies from Harvard running the country.
We need somebody like Orban.

 

[strunkenwhite]

.... I am sorry can you be more specific, are you refering to the US because that does seem like an accurate description.

I wasn't aware you thought the Trump and Biden administrations were both taking us in a completely wrong direction. I meant Russia, as opposed to (paraphrased) "schizophrenically changing direction every four years" per Arch Dornan i.e. USA.

Let's be realistic, the best case scenario here is that all the loans are never going to be paid back on account of Ukraine ceasing to exist as an independent nation. The worst case being a repeat of the 1941 land lease where the US wasn't officially at war yet, but the status quo of the time wanted to be, but with nuclear weapons.

So to be clear, do you think that there's no possibility that Ukraine fights off Russia and Russia doesn't respond by flipping the table and doing their best to end human civilization? Or is it just that you want Russia to win period? I disagree with both. Or maybe I'm misunderstanding how you intend "cease to exist as an independent nation".