Countering Liberal Elitist Social Theories (and Nebulous Hypotheticals)

[DocSolarisReich]

It doesnt matter. Unless you can develop a compelling counter theory and an elite class willing to push it, you are getting CRT.

This is why the right is powerless today. They have no counter-elite faction vying for power with an illiberal narrative about who we are, where we come from, and where we are going. Until and unless the Kilkenny kats on the right generate an elite, who can resist being coopted by the existing structures of liberalism (which is the big problem) they will continue being powerless. Which is probably why rightists spend more time and effort fighting each other than anything else; activism without an inside the system elite to take advantage is pointless.

 

[AnimalNoodles]

This is why the right is powerless today. They have no counter-elite faction vying for power with an illiberal narrative about who we are, where we come from, and where we are going. Until and unless the Kilkenny kats on the right generate an elite, who can resist being coopted by the existing structures of liberalism (which is the big problem) they will continue being powerless. Which is probably why rightists spend more time and effort fighting each other than anything else; activism without an inside the system elite to take advantage is pointless.

The problem is 1) the institutional right are basically Liberal, and unable to properly critique the left, and 2) literally owned by the opposition.

The right will be thoroughly defeated and eliminated form the public square. Barring an actual civil collapse, the successor ideology will have total dominance for most of this century. I think a time will come for an effective opposition later this century, but only after the system has catabolised itself to the point where it can no longer effectively use its own power structures.

The right cant exercise positive power, so it has to exercise negative power. That is, they cant enact thier policies or stop the left from enacting thiers, but they can work to increase entropy in the system to weaken it so that down the line new opportunies will emerge.

 

[Marduk]

That raises a good question - how much of an elite does the right really need and what for?
A lot of the leftist elite is effectively cheeky, separation of church and state dodging priestly class of their not-religion, paid by everyone, whether they like the not-religion or not.
They are its preachers, monks, inquisitors, bishops and parish priests, hidden away through academia, corporations and in particular various government departments, resulting in institution bloat and excessive bureaucracy, which don't exactly sound like achievements of civilization anyone sane would insist on saving.
Obviously the right has no need for replacing such massive part of leftist elite - after all, for most of its function, most right wingers would rather go to their own church of choice, while the more libertarian ones will either do the same or refuse the very idea of having such.
For the rest, they are about as necessary in a free society as political officers and party commissars.
Overall, the conservative idea of kicking progressive activism and ideas out of government and libertarian idea of trimming down the government by getting rid of parts that should not exist fuse perfectly in that one goal, effectively suggesting the same course of action.

 

[DocSolarisReich]

The problem is 1) the institutional right are basically Liberal, and unable to properly critique the left, and 2) literally owned by the opposition.

100% true, but even the dissident right is fundamentally powerless in this way and the dissident right has always had the numbers to be a significant political force (especially if the just so stories of democratic popular sovereignty and civic parliamentary representation actually mattered). If the dissidents could just stop forming circular firing squads for five minutes and lift a Caudillo upon their shields and swear to honor and obey him and no other save God, things might be different.

The right will be thoroughly defeated and eliminated form the public square. Barring an actual civil collapse, the successor ideology will have total dominance for most of this century. I think a time will come for an effective opposition later this century, but only after the system has catabolised itself to the point where it can no longer effectively use its own power structures.

Thing longer term. We are firmly on the Spenglarian track for the collapse of the progressive and modernist narratives into mere Caesarism due to the complete lack of intermediating organs of society and the inability of 'civil society' market based communities to replace organic ones. All peoples and tongues will be dissolved into the ecumenopolis and the new imperial bug man shall live by buying and selling and nothing else. This can last for generations (typically around five) before a new vitalist barbarism can smash and overthrow the rot and begin anew.

after all, for most of its function, most right wingers would rather go to their own church of choice, while the more libertarian ones will either do the same or refuse the very idea of having such.

This is why the right fails. The left has a religion and believes and shudders. The right has not. If you find yourself in a religious war, you need a religion. If you find yourself in a tribal war, you need a tribe. Lolbertarians going it alone in a wilderness of mirrors and a wasteland devoid of sacramental signification is no basis for organization.

 

[Marduk]

This is why the right fails. The left has a religion and believes and shudders. The right has not. If you find yourself in a religious war, you need a religion. If you find yourself in a tribal war, you need a tribe. Lolbertarians going it alone in a wilderness of mirrors and a wasteland devoid of sacramental signification is no basis for organization.

I'd say you need some kind of shared cause and set of ideas about how the country should function after the conflict.
With that in mind, for purposes of taking over countries a secular ideology works too, as progressives and their ideological predecessors themselves prove. Many of them are more or less members of various religions, however those religions are selected for their compatibility with the greater progressive cause (that's where those meme trans lesbian pastors come from) and are hardly capable (if willing in the first place) of challenging the latter in opinion shaping, if they tried most of the progressives would just try to take over the rogue organization again, and failing that, leave and attack it from the outside.

 

[DocSolarisReich]

I'd say you need some kind of shared cause and set of ideas about how the country should function after the conflict.

No. Or at least, not these alone. These are insufficient. You need a passion for the struggle. You need a raison for the young man to seemly lie, mangled by the bronze spear. Something sacred to defend. Such that a man is ashamed to flee rather than stand and die, with his boots on. Ideals and theories of the soul of the public things can come later, after victory is achieved and we have planted peaceful gardens for our children.

 

[AnimalNoodles]

100% true, but even the dissident right is fundamentally powerless in this way and the dissident right has always had the numbers to be a significant political force (especially if the just so stories of democratic popular sovereignty and civic parliamentary representation actually mattered). If the dissidents could just stop forming circular firing squads for five minutes and lift a Caudillo upon their shields and swear to honor and obey him and no other save God, things might be different.

Gotta disagree. The system is too strong to oppose that way. Any caudillo figure would be torn down. The dissident right needs to exercise its influence in other ways. The system has weaken first, to be discredited to the point where the elite itself begins to fragment and factions start looking around for allies.

Thing longer term. We are firmly on the Spenglarian track for the collapse of the progressive and modernist narratives into mere Caesarism due to the complete lack of intermediating organs of society and the inability of 'civil society' market based communities to replace organic ones. All peoples and tongues will be dissolved into the ecumenopolis and the new imperial bug man shall live by buying and selling and nothing else. This can last for generations (typically around five) before a new vitalist barbarism can smash and overthrow the rot and begin anew.

I think modern technology has accelerated this process to the point where the five generations will be condensed down. I think this generation will see the social justice police state imposed, the next generation will see it rot and decay, and the generation after that will see it thrown down. The current system is based on anarcho-tyranny and bioleninism. I dont think it can generate the order it needs to last that long. It has to consume itself.

This is why the right fails. The left has a religion and believes and shudders. The right has not. If you find yourself in a religious war, you need a religion. If you find yourself in a tribal war, you need a tribe. Lolbertarians going it alone in a wilderness of mirrors and a wasteland devoid of sacramental signification is no basis for organization.

All the modern lolbertarian seems to believe in is cooming and drugs. the AnCom wants to do drugs and fuck children, the AnCap wants to sell drugs and fuck children.

 

[AnimalNoodles]

No. Or at least, not these alone. These are insufficient. You need a passion for the struggle. You need a raison for the young man to seemly lie, mangled by the bronze spear. Something sacred to defend. Such that a man is ashamed to flee rather than stand and die, with his boots on. Ideals and theories of the soul of the public things can come later, after victory is achieved and we have planted peaceful gardens for our children.

The mainstream conservative is a relativist and nihilist. The left burns with conviction. Nihilism shatters in the face of conviction.

 

[Marduk]

No. Or at least, not these alone. These are insufficient. You need a passion for the struggle.

Of course. For that set of ideas, ideology, cause, whatever you call it. Nationalism is commonly known as a quite effective shared idea to get a bunch of people passionate enough to fight a war for it.
On the contrary, there are also commonly recognized religions with very little passion behind them. So these two factors are fairly independent from each other.

You need a raison for the young man to seemly lie, mangled by the bronze spear. Something sacred to defend. Such that a man is ashamed to flee rather than stand and die, with his boots on.

Too much of that kind of zeal is just as much of a problem as total lack of it. See: record of military victories of many middle eastern factions that had more than enough of it. An uncontrollable and irrational army is not a good army. It can be a dangerous army, but a competent enemy can and will turn these qualities against it.

Ideals and theories of the soul of the public things can come later,

That sounds like a perfect scenario for a post-victory civil war.

after victory is achieved and we have planted peaceful gardens for our children.

And that in turn is exactly the mindset that made the EU such a mess military wise.
Victory achieved is never guaranteed to last, it only lasts as long as no one else shows up and takes it away.

 

[DocSolarisReich]

For that set of ideas, ideology, cause, whatever you call it. Nationalism is commonly known as a quite effective shared idea to get a bunch of people passionate enough to fight a war for it.

Yes, because the Nation is also a God. There is no such things as 'secularism'.

On the contrary, there are also commonly recognized religions with very little passion behind them.

Yes, Christianity is dying because it is no longer believed. No argument from me.

Too much of that kind of zeal is just as much of a problem as total lack of it.

Now we're just being contrary. The Greeks somehow managed to combine zeal and passion for the individual prowess and defense of hearth and home and idol with lock step discipline. These are solved problems.

That sounds like a perfect scenario for a post-victory civil war.

How to tell someone who isn't serious about fighting the civil war we are in now; "before we fight the left we have to rationally plan out the post victory world and define now who is and isn't on our side."

No.

And that in turn is exactly the mindset that made the EU such a mess military wise.
Victory achieved is never guaranteed to last, it only lasts as long as no one else shows up and takes it away.

Nothing is forever, but the EU is a mess because it is a fake and gay puppet of the Atlantacist financial empire, first and foremost.

 

[Marduk]

Yes, because the Nation is also a God. There is no such things as 'secularism'.

That's not exactly how vast majority of mankind uses that term God.
Going to sillier examples, there are thousands upon thousands of people willing to take part in street brawls with occassional deaths and long prison sentences in the name of... their favorite soccer team. So the bar for what people can rally around seems to be quite low.

Now we're just being contrary. The Greeks somehow managed to combine zeal and passion for the individual prowess and defense of hearth and home and idol with lock step discipline. These are solved problems.

Which Greeks? Sparta? Athens? Macedonia? Those had quite some differences in their view of such things.

How to tell someone who isn't serious about fighting the civil war we are in now; "before we fight the left we have to rationally plan out the post victory world and define now who is and isn't on our side."

Yes, we do, because if we don't, suddenly it may turn out that half the people on our side really aren't and just wait for a good opportunity to turn around and do their own thing whatever it is, or we're fighting some random side factions instead of focusing on the left.

But back to the topic of CRT.

it's not going to end until you make it end and you have to accept the whole idea behind CRT is Anti-White. Call it like that and push back on it on that basis, anything else effectively plays into their moral framework.

One interesting way to put it i've seen is to call it race communism. What does it have in common? It's simple, both are based on Marxism, and while in the normal, economically focused communism the evil oppressors who have to be put in their place or else are the "bourgeoisie" as defined by their wealth and income, in race communism, the same Marxist framework is inherited, but the contents switched around a bit - in race communism, White people are the new bourgeoisie (seriously, they even are considered to have privilage they are born with, exactly like one would describe a feudal noble lord), after all, the rhetoric towards them is surprisingly close to the original. Of course there are also the oppressed groups, but its race communism, so instead of workers and farmers, it's all the clearly non-white ethnic groups, and then there are also smaller groups that may fall on either side of the divide depending on details and as such are to be held under great suspicion - in original communism it was the intelligentsia, while in race communism that would be "white-adjecent" groups like East Asians, Jews and "White Latinos".

 

[DocSolarisReich]

That's not exactly how vast majority of mankind uses that term God.

The vast majority of mankind are too ignorant of the technical vocabulary to have a valid opinion.

Which Greeks? Sparta? Athens? Macedonia? Those had quite some differences in their view of such things.

So what? They all had answers. All of them.

Yes, we do, because if we don't, suddenly it may turn out that half the people on our side really aren't and just wait for a good opportunity to turn around and do their own thing whatever it is, or we're fighting some random side factions instead of focusing on the left.

And this is why we fail. Yes, there's going to be conflict on the other side. Accept that. Embrace it. But if you purity spiral here and now you will not build a coalition capable of winning. This is actually really simple. When in a war, your actions should either expand or empower your own coalition or reduce or weaken his coalition. Ideally, both at the same time. The end.

Do you really think the professional black block like and respect the rainbow block? The only thing keeping any of the Sinister factions from coming to blows and exploding the entire coalition is the acknowledged supremacy of the elite financeers and the shared hatred of us.

One interesting way to put it i've seen is to call it race communism.

Bioleninism. The hatred and jealousy of the mutant and inferior for the healthy and superior.

 

[Marduk]

So what? They all had answers. All of them.

The point is, those were different answers.

And this is why we fail. Yes, there's going to be conflict on the other side. Accept that. Embrace it. But if you purity spiral here and now you will not build a coalition capable of winning. This is actually really simple. When in a war, your actions should either expand or empower your own coalition or reduce or weaken his coalition. Ideally, both at the same time. The end.

Do you really think the professional black block like and respect the rainbow block? The only thing keeping any of the Sinister factions from coming to blows and exploding the entire coalition is the acknowledged supremacy of the elite financeers and the shared hatred of us.

Considering the number of obvious members of the rainbow block in the black block...
Nevermind, i would not be so sure they respect themselves either way.

But on the contrary, consider who isn't commonly seen in the black block.
Considering the geography and politics of places that have black block appearances, you would think the left's imported Islamic auxiliary would be showing up there a lot...
After all, they do like street crime, and probably are better at it than the loyally Marxist rainbow block too.
However, we can more often see them doing their own thing instead.
Like beating up the Kurdish comrades....

 

[DocSolarisReich]

The point is, those were different answers.

Again, so what? That the problem of excess zeal and unharnessed passion has multiple solutions doesn't mean it is an unsolvable problem.

Considering the geography and politics of places that have black block appearances, you would think the left's imported Islamic auxiliary would be showing up there a lot...

'The left' has not imported them, the deep state power elite has. They are the deep reserve of the system, only to be activated only if the right ever gets off the couch and does something. Break glass in case of 'brown shirts'. They are entirely too violent, organized, and passionate to be allowed to participate in the usual street theatre. This is the true reason why Europe is the target of this migration; as a backstop in case Front National or the like ever take power. The only thing worse for the Atlantacist empire of central banking than 'Euroskepticism' is 'NATOsckepticism'. This is Operation Gladio on steroids.

 

[Marduk]

Again, so what? That the problem of excess zeal and unharnessed passion has multiple solutions doesn't mean it is an unsolvable problem.



'The left' has not imported them, the deep state power elite has. They are the deep reserve of the system, only to be activated only if the right ever gets off the couch and does something. Break glass in case of 'brown shirts'. They are entirely too violent, organized, and passionate to be allowed to participate in the usual street theatre. This is the true reason why Europe is the target of this migration; as a backstop in case Front National or the like ever take power. The only thing worse for the Atlantacist empire of central banking than 'Euroskepticism' is 'NATOsckepticism'. This is Operation Gladio on steroids.

That theory just doesn't add up. The same powers consider not importing more of them to USA a point of shame (the infamous Somali community in Minneapolis, not exactly a hardcore republican place to begin with, didn't materialize out of thin air), yet at the same time this growing demographics is probably the most "NATOskeptic" of everyone in Europe, just for somewhat different reasons than the nationalists and the leftists. I think the main difference here is practical - in Europe, vast majority of them to this or that degree import themselves and leave the authorities with their presence there as a matter of fact, completely skipping asking permission, while in USA they are completely reliant on active importation, because it is impossible to cross the damn Atlantic on a cheap overloaded boat.

 

[DocSolarisReich]

yet at the same time this growing demographics is probably the most "NATOskeptic" of everyone in Europe

It doesn't matter what the common man thinks, or says he thinks. It only matters what the fighting man will do for coin. Weaponized Islam has been a tool of Western Atlanticist power since Lawrence of Arabia.

 

[49ersfootball]

It doesnt matter. Unless you can develop a compelling counter theory and an elite class willing to push it, you are getting CRT.

I still think McAuliffe holds on to win the VA Governorship in November, but it'll be so damn close.

 

[Simonbob]

Personally?

I'd suggest no rational argument. Yell that you will sue unless they are fired, that you will do whatever is needed to protect your kids, and make sure you get every cop with kids involved, as well.

Forget being rational. Forget making arguments. Hurt them emotionally, sue them for hurting your kids. Treat them like they're Nazi's who will turn your kids into Third Reich SS, and say they're monsters to their face.

Don't be polite. Show them hate, until they break under the pressure. Nothing else will work.

 

[History Learner]

Personally?

I'd suggest no rational argument. Yell that you will sue unless they are fired, that you will do whatever is needed to protect your kids, and make sure you get every cop with kids involved, as well.

Forget being rational. Forget making arguments. Hurt them emotionally, sue them for hurting your kids. Treat them like they're Nazi's who will turn your kids into Third Reich SS, and say they're monsters to their face.

Don't be polite. Show them hate, until they break under the pressure. Nothing else will work.

They proceed to laugh in your face and throw you in prison while indoctrinating your kids; you make the mistake of assuming you have any real power in this system.

 

[Simonbob]

They proceed to laugh in your face and throw you in prison while indoctrinating your kids; you make the mistake of assuming you have any real power in this system.

You miss my point.

Either withdraw your family, or doing nothing illegal, use words to hurt them. Be honest in your hate. Be honest in describing them. Forget politeness, or anything like it.

Show them they are hated, and refuse to vanish. Because, only that kind of passion will save those you care about. If you're not willing to risk, stop pretending you actuly care.



If you want to win, if you want things to get better, you have to risk. Cowardice will not save us.