Cities that could've been or could have been even greater

[History Learner]

What some towns or locations that could've developed into cities but failed to, for whatever reason? How about cities that did develop, but could've have been even greater, be it in wealth, importance, size, etc? How would such effect history?

 

[History Learner]

I'll add a few.

In 1850s, the U.S. Government conducted a series of land surveys in order to find the best route for a Trans-Continental railway to the Pacific, and ultimately found the southern most proposed line was the best. The Gadsden Purchase was done in order to secure the territory needed to build it, but then the increasing sectional disputes between the North and the South killed it the project until the 1870s. Even then, the Central Pacific monopoly managed to screw it over. Had it been built, as was originally intended, it would've roughly followed the route of what IOTL became the Butterfield Overland Trail:

The main difference would be, instead of connecting up towards San Francisco, it would've directly terminated in San Diego. Such an advantageous position, in terms of being an excellent port and a terminus for the first Trans-Continental Railroad would've turned San Diego into the premier city and port on the West Coast. As was noted IOTL by the opponents of the 1870s effort:

It was at this moment that Stanford, in an interview published in the San Francisco Chronicle, first set forth publicly the plan to push the Southern Pacific from Yuma across into Texas. In concluding his interview he said: "The people of San Francisco will never appreciate how great a danger menaced them . . . Had Tom Scott built his road to the Pacific he would have taken from us our best prospective traffic and carried it East . . . He would have given San Francisco a blow from which she would never have recovered."

So basically San Diego ends up as the city in California, with Los Angeles never coming into being as something major while San Francisco slowly dies off from the lack of trade and the earthquake in 1906 finishing it off. Shifting back east with this, the most likely origin point for the railroad is Memphis, due to the shorter route it offers and the fact there was already some existing track in the region to build from. Such would, between the rail traffic and Mississippi River trade, make Memphis the main city along the river and definitely so in Tennessee. For anybody familiar with the present state of Memphis, particularly in comparison to Nashville or even Knoxville, this is massive.

Some more, either in this proposed ATL or on their own:

Richmond, Virginia - In the event of no Civil War, or at least Virginia not getting as smashed by it, Richmond would definitely be a greater city without having to be rebuilt from the 1864-1865 siege and the (most likely) continued status of West Virginia in the Commonwealth. The railway expansion plans into OTL West Virginia would've went ahead, linking that region into the rest of the State, and thus enabling the flow of Western Virginian coal as well as timber into Richmond's industrial facilities.

Big Stone Gap, Virginia - Change the Civil War (Averted or quicker ending, regardless of victor) or remove Alexander Arthur, and such would've made available the capital needed to carry out the industrialization plans for the town. I personally don't think it could've become a Pittsburgh as was extolled, but a city of 50-80,000 with a strong industrial basis certainly seems possible. Such would've also kept the nearby coal towns relevant and large, first as sources of coal for iron/steel production, and then as suburbs as the town became a city. Add in UVA deciding to locate their affiliate campus here instead of Wise, and you'd definitely have the Virginian version of Johnson City with UVA-BSG as their version of ETSU, but with the industry of Kingsport thrown in too to give it a nice, diversified economy.

Middlesboro, Kentucky - Avert the 1890 Fire and/or have Barings not make such bad investments in Argentina, and Middlesboro could end up bigger than it did. If capital keeps flowing in, the proposed railroad tunnel can be built and thus enable the city to become an important transportation hub between Knoxville and Lexington, but the plans to turn it into a major industrial site were always going to fall short due to the poor quality of materials in the area. Overall, it could probably reach a size of 20-30,000 which would make it an anchor city for Southeastern Kentucky.

Fort Blackmore, Virginia - I've never been able to confirm such, but a high school teacher of mine stated that Eastman Kodak nearly built what became their Kingsport plant in or near this tiny hamlet, but were stopped by the local tobacco growers. Had they failed, Fort Blackmore probably could've grown into a city of 50,000 like Kingsport did instead of the 300 people and one restaurant/gas station "town" it is today. Nerfing Kingsport would've also likely resulted in Johnson City being bigger, making it more of a competitor to Knoxville and a Tennessean emulation of Asheville decades ahead of schedule. This would also be good for Northeastern Tennessee as a whole, as the clear dominance of Johnson City-which is a relatively recent development-would prevent a lot of the infighting between the Tri-Cities that hamper economic planning at the regional level.

Roanoke, Virginia - A Professor of mine once noted that both Roanoke, Virginia and Charlotte, North Carolina had much of the same origin/developmental stats but what led Charlotte to become what it is was its luck in getting the international airport. In his estimation, had such been the opposite, the fate of both of the cities would've been reversed.

Muscle Shoals, Alabama - I'll let the town itself explain what nearly happened:

In 1921, automotive tycoon Henry Ford, accompanied by Thomas Edison, came to Muscle Shoals with a vision of transforming this area into a metropolis. “I will employ one million workers at Muscle Shoals and I will build a city 75 miles long at Muscle Shoals,” stated Mr. Ford. The instant rumors of Ford’s plan hit the streets, real estate speculators began buying up land and parceling it out in 25 foot lots and putting in sidewalks and street lights. People from all over the United States bought lots, sight unseen, during this time. Mr. Ford’s offer to buy Wilson Dam for $5 million was turned down by Congress. (The initial cost of the construction of the dam was $46.5 million.) Instead, Congress, under the influence of Senator George Norris of Nebraska, later formed the Tennessee Valley Authority to develop the dam as well as the entire river valley. Senator Norris felt strongly that the public, rather than private companies, should receive the benefits from the government’s investments in Muscle Shoals. Although Ford’s plans did not turn Muscle Shoals into a huge city, it did lay the foundation for the city of Muscle Shoals.

Chicago, Illinois - Yes, I know it was already great, but it certainly could've been greater, had it successfully managed to become the center of American automobile production.

Duluth, Minnesota - U.S. Steel apparently narrowly chose expanding production in Pittsburgh over Duluth in 1911, a move which, if reversed, certainly would've brought more development.

Topeka, Kansas - Had it got the international airport over Kansas City, it could've went the Atlanta route of development.

Portland, Oregon - In the 1960s they tried to build a stadium to attract the Raiders and made a bid for the 1968 Olympics, but both ended up failing. Had they not, it would've obviously been a boon for the city.

Mobile, Alabama - After the Civil War, trade began to shift away from the Mississippi and New Orleans lost some of its prominence in this regard. Had it got hit by a sufficiently strong Hurricane sometime in the 1870s-1890s, it's possible Mobile could've replaced it as the premier port on the Gulf, given its central location and proximity to the iron production sites at Birmingham.

Birmingham, Alabama - Avert the Civil War or have it won by the South, and Birmingham would've turned into every bit the rival of Pittsburgh that it was intended to be. Due to unfair Pro-Pittsburgh pricing rates forced into usage, Birmingham's ability sell was deeply undermined, and this was further compounded by the lack of sufficient regional capital to draw on due to the effects of the Civil War. The Iron and Steel Industry of the Birmingham, Alabama, District by Langdon White (Economic Geography, Vol. 4, No. 4 (Oct., 1928), pp. 349-365) outlines the areas Birmingham would've easily been able to out-compete Pittsburgh in at the minimum:

 

[sillygoose]

I'm rather fascinated with the potential of the Kingdom of Hungary/Budapest had they not been defeated at Mohacs by the Turks. They actually conquered Vienna at one point and basically forced the HRE out of meddling in their affairs. If Matthais Corvinus had lived longer and had an heir that he was able to get ready in time to rule Hungary, they might have remained the superpower of the era for generations more and the Black Army could have been maintained, which would have likely enabled them to hold off the Ottomans the following century. Like most Kingdoms/Empire that fall it was the collapse of centralized power after the death of a strong king (in this case due to lack of a legitimate heir) and the rise of the nobility which led to the dissolution of the standing army (which was the king's main powerbase) and crippling of the kingdom for their own selfish desires for power.
It is mindboggling how stupid and venal the nobility in Hungary was throughout the centuries, all because they didn't want a strong king who would crush dissent among them:

Battle of Mohács - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

The standing mercenary army (the Black Army) of Matthias Corvinus was dissolved by the aristocracy. The magnates also dismantled the national administration systems and bureaucracy throughout the country. The country's defenses sagged as border-guards and castle garrisons went unpaid, fortresses fell into disrepair, and initiatives to increase taxes to reinforce defenses were stifled.[13] Hungary's international role declined, its political stability shaken; social progress was deadlocked. The arrival of Protestantism further worsened internal relations in the country.

The strongest nobles were so busy oppressing the peasants and quarreling with the gentry class in the parliament that they failed to heed the agonized calls of King Louis II (who reigned in Bohemia and Hungary from 1516 to 1526) for support against the Turks.

In 1514, the weakened and old King Vladislaus II faced a major peasant rebellion led by György Dózsa, which was ruthlessly crushed by the nobles, led by John Zápolya. After the Dózsa Rebellion, the brutal suppression of the peasants greatly aided the 1526 Turkish invasion as the Hungarians were no longer a politically united people. The resulting degradation of order paved the way for Ottoman pre-eminence.

I wonder if we can draw any modern parallels....

Anyway in terms of a Hungary superpower that remains powerful it would dominate the Balkans, Bohemia, parts of all of Austria, and even parts of Silesia. They also intermarried with the Polish, so assuming that state dissolves roughly per OTL Hungary would get all that. They'd basically be the early Habsburg empire without most of the pesky HRE issues and German nationalism problems and vastly more centralized and modern as a result. Their biggest strength for quite some time was their surprisingly modern bureaucracy and taxation system, as well as professional standing army, which was a novelty in that era.

A Hungary that defeats the Ottomans and turns them into the 'sick man of Europe' a few hundred years earlier would change all of European history, probably for the better if the Habsburgs didn't extend themselves into Hungary (as a result of the battle of Mohacs specifically). It would also ensure the Hungary is set up to be one of the great powers of Europe, maybe on par with France of that era, would shield the HRE from the threats from the Balkans (woe be to France and Poland and probably the HRE peoples themselves given the religious wars of the period), and if it could politically modernize with the times by the 20th century might well be a colonial power in the region like Venice was at one point, conquer Istanbul/Constantinople, and become one of the first oil states thanks to controlling what would be modern Romania, the Vienna basin, and Galicia.

Considering the resources of the region if united in one political entity (and assuming it isn't torn apart by ethnic movements like the Habsburg empire was, which certainly could have been avoided if a centralized Hungarian state was able to push culture and language on the empire the way Paris did on what became France. France being of course a multi-ethnic/linguistic state until the various region had the concept of 'France' and Parisian language imposed on them) it could be a massive industrial power, potentially greater than Imperial Germany if Budapest was the one selling oil to them. It would be rather interesting if Budapest was the senior partner in a relationship with whatever state exists in German Europe.

Budapest would then be an imperial capital on par with if not greater even than OTL Habsburg Vienna, Berlin, Paris, St. Petersburg, or London. It would be interesting to see if they ally with Berlin (assuming that is the German/HRE capital), Paris, or St. Petersburg. Certainly a Budapest-Baghdad railroad would make for an interesting ATL and one that might have even been possible in the 19th century depending on political/military developments.

 

[History Learner]

A lot of Balkans cities got the short end of the stick, even with more recent developments. Vienna, for example, has largely been static in terms of size since the First World War and the resulting collapse of the Austro-Hungarian Empire. Had World War I been avoided, or won by the Central Powers, I could easily see Vienna, Bratislava, Budapest and the various Czech cities being much more populous, wealthy and influential with the Empire intact.

Same for Berlin, for that matter, if WWII and the resulting East-West split is avoided, or the Germans win the War.

 

[sillygoose]

One of the other major potential powers of course is Warsaw/Poland. Largely the same issues as Medieval Hungary: the nobility. Almost like there is a theme running throughout human history...

Could have actually prevented a modern Russia from developing actually and might have well included Ukraine and retained all the Baltic states.

A lot of Balkans cities got the short end of the stick, even with more recent developments. Vienna, for example, has largely been static in terms of size since the First World War and the resulting collapse of the Austro-Hungarian Empire. Had World War I been avoided, or won by the Central Powers, I could easily see Vienna, Bratislava, Budapest and the various Czech cities being much more populous, wealthy and influential with the Empire intact.

Same for Berlin, for that matter, if WWII and the resulting East-West split is avoided, or the Germans win the War.

No doubt, but it seems the issues also stemmed from the repeated wars leading up to the 20th century as well, which left the area developmentally and politically stunted. The Habsburg rule certainly did not help (thanks Mercantilism and Austrian economics, not to mention the Magyar nobility).

Certainly no WW1 or a victorious war could help, but the serious structural issues within the empire would prevent that I think. Vienna could have been more developed had the bureaucracy not killed the stimulus/infrastructure program of 1904 by Koerber.

 

[History Learner]

One of the other major potential powers of course is Warsaw/Poland. Largely the same issues as Medieval Hungary: the nobility. Almost like there is a theme running throughout human history...

Could have actually prevented a modern Russia from developing actually and might have well included Ukraine and retained all the Baltic states.

The Polish-Lithuanian-Ruthenian Commonwealth in the early 1600s? Yeah, I'd imagine that would impact a lot of Eastern European development, especially as far as cities. The extension of Western Slavic culture into Ukraine and Belarus would, alone, change quite a bit.

 

[PsihoKekec]

Trieste, Italy - in 1900 it was the main commercial port of Austro-Hungary and emerging financial and education center. In 1919 it became peripheral Italian port and in 1945 the border cut it off from the hinterland, leaving it barely connected to Italy. If AH survives the war, Trieste could be twice the size it is now.

 

[History Learner]

From The Rise and the Fall of Argentina:

In Table 6, a summary of the long-run development scenarios without institutional breakdowns is presented. The counterfactual estimates indicate large per capita income gains over time in the absence of key institutional breakdowns and largely suggest that, without such breakdowns, Argentina would currently be among the rich countries if it had followed the institutional development trends of the key donor countries. By 2012, Argentina’s per capita income was about 34 percent of that of the United States. The synthetic counterfactuals suggest that without the 1930 military coup, Argentina’s long-run per capita income would have approached 59 percent of the US level by 2012, which is equivalent to the income level of New Zealand or Slovenia. In the absence of Perón’s rise to power in 1946, Argentina’s long-run per capita income would have reached 53 percent of the US level by 2012. In per capita income terms, this income level is equivalent to that of Spain or Italy. A similar long-run development level would have been achieved in the absence of post–World War II institutional ruptures such as the 1954 Revolución Libertadora, the 1958 onset of a series of fragile UCR administrations, the 1965 transition to the authoritarian-bureaucratic state (Revolución Argentina), Perón’s second rise to power, and the 1975–1983 military dictatorship. Had the institutional breakdowns never occurred and had Argentina’s development instead paralleled the trends in donor countries such as Germany, the United States, Switzerland, Uruguay, and Chile, its long-run per capita income would most likely have exceeded 50 percent of the US level. The synthetic control estimates used here imply that such a drastic long-run change in the development path would have shifted Argentina from its status today as an underdeveloped, upper-middle-income country to that of a rich country, with its income level on the same footing as that of Spain, Italy, Slovenia, and New Zealand. The counterfactual estimations imply that, in the absence of the key institutional breakdowns, Argentina’s per capita output growth rate would move from 1.34 percent to 1.69 percent, which is the equivalent of a 26 percent increase in its long-run growth rate. In the years between 1850 and 2012, such a quantitative shift in the growth rate would have narrowed Argentina’s per capita income shortfall relative to the United States by between 14 and 25 percentage points, depending on the breakdown’s timing and type.

Obviously, no matter what PoD you pick, Buenos Aires would be a world class city in general and especially so for South America.

 

[Free-Stater 101]

Mobile, Alabama - After the Civil War, trade began to shift away from the Mississippi and New Orleans lost some of its prominence in this regard. Had it got hit by a sufficiently strong Hurricane sometime in the 1870s-1890s, it's possible Mobile could've replaced it as the premier port on the Gulf, given its central location and proximity to the iron production sites at Birmingham.

What do you mean? Mobile was for a long stretch of time the second largest ship building port in the U.S. after Norfolk or are you implying that industry doesn't matter in what you constitute as a great city.

And furthermore like you write Mobile ship manufacturing was what fueled that Shipyard.

Birmingham, Alabama - Avert the Civil War or have it won by the South, and Birmingham would've turned into every bit the rival of Pittsburgh that it was intended to be. Due to unfair Pro-Pittsburgh pricing rates forced into usage, Birmingham's ability sell was deeply undermined, and this was further compounded by the lack of sufficient regional capital to draw on due to the effects of the Civil War. The Iron and Steel Industry of the Birmingham, Alabama, District by Langdon White (Economic Geography, Vol. 4, No. 4 (Oct., 1928), pp. 349-365) outlines the areas Birmingham would've easily been able to out-compete Pittsburgh in at the minimum:

It goes beyond that, Pittsburg had the advantage of being closer to Wallstreet and investors, furthermore politics in the South also hindered Birmingham's development, post civil war some of the plantation upperclass tied industry to reconstruction and it became a partisan battle hampering industrialization, the civil war helped but wasn't alone in stiffing development in the south.

 

[DarthOne]

I'd say quite a few cities in Germany and Poland, as well as in Eastern Europe could have been a lot better than they are now. Thanks a lot, Hitler!

 

[Val the Moofia Boss]

Guerilla warfare during the American Civil War in Kansas and Missouri resulted in the burning of several towns. Bigger places that were razed, like Vicksburg, eventually recovered, but these places never really did.


During the American Civil War in Missouri, a Union Senator - James Lane - formed a gang of guerilla fighters/robbers called Jayhawkers. They set out on their horses and burned, massacred, and looted Osceola, a village in Missouri, for having a lot of people who voiced support of the Confederacy (there were also a few slaves there IIRC).

Senator James Lane.

A group of Confederate guerillas called "Quantrill's Raiders" heard about the massacre. They decided to avenge the village. An eye for an eye. They also wanted to kill Senator Lane and his Jayhawkers who butchered Osceola. 4 columns of guerillas converged into a 400 man raid as they entered the town of Lawerence and killed every male over the age of 12 and burned it. Lane narrowly escaped death by hiding in a barn on the outskirts of town.

Viewed in any light, the Lawrence Raid will continue to be held, as the most infamous event of the uncivil war! The work of destruction did not stop in Kansas. The cowardly criminality of this spiteful reciprocity lay in the fact that each party knew, but did not care, that the consequences of their violent acts would fall most heavily upon their own helpless friends. Jenison in 1861 rushed into Missouri when there was no one to resist, and robbed and killed and sneaked away with his spoils and left the union people of Missouri to bear the vengeance of his crimes. Quantrell in 1863 rushed into Lawrence, Kansas, when there was no danger, and killed and robbed and sneaked off with his spoils, leaving helpless women and children of his own side to bear the dreadful vengeance invoked by that raid. So the Lawrence raid was followed by swift and cruel retribution, falling, as usual in this border warfare, upon the innocent and helpless, rather than the guilty ones. Quantrell left Kansas with the loss of one man. The Kansas troops followed him, at a respectful distance, and visited dire vengeance on all western Missouri. Unarmed old men and boys were accused and shot down, and homes with their now meagre comforts were burned, and helpless women and children turned out with no provision for the approaching winter. The number of those killed was never reported, as they were scattered all over western Missouri.

Lawerence massacre by Confederate guerillas/murderers, "Quantrill's Raiders". 164 civilians murdered.

Lawerence after it was burned.

After Lawerence was burned, Senator Lane reassembled his Union guerillas, the Jaywalkers, and was about to go massacre Westport, Missouri in retaliation, when a Union general stopped him. He had a better idea. "Let's burn every building in Missouri down! Surely then there won't be anymore Confederate guerilla attacks!". The Union general issued General Order No. 11. Everyone was to evacuate their homes and had to prove their allegiance to the Union. The Union army swept over the land and burned every house and field in sight, shot cattle, robbed houses, and even shot old men and young boys who were trying to prove their loyalty to the Union.

I don't suppose you guys are handing out government reimbursement money?

"It is well-known that men were shot down in the very act of obeying the order, and their wagons and effects seized by their murderers. Large trains of wagons, extending over the prairies for miles in length, and moving Kansasward, were freighted with every description of household furniture and wearing apparel belonging to the exiled inhabitants. Dense columns of smoke arising in every direction marked the conflagrations of dwellings, many of the evidences of which are yet to be seen in the remains of seared and blackened chimneys, standing as melancholy monuments of a ruthless military despotism which spared neither age, sex, character, nor condition. There was neither aid nor protection afforded to the banished inhabitants by the heartless authority which expelled them from their rightful possessions. They crowded by hundreds upon the banks of the Missouri River, and were indebted to the charity of benevolent steamboat conductors for transportation to places of safety where friendly aid could be extended to them without danger to those who ventured to contribute it."

 

[History Learner]

What do you mean? Mobile was for a long stretch of time the second largest ship building port in the U.S. after Norfolk or are you implying that industry doesn't matter in what you constitute as a great city.

And furthermore like you write Mobile ship manufacturing was what fueled that Shipyard.

I mean exactly as I said, in that the loss of New Orleans would propel Mobile as the premier commercial port on the Gulf, at least until Houston arises most likely. Industry is very important-that's why in my list I cited Muscle Shoals and Chicago getting the auto industry for example-but obviously more economic diversity in terms of industries can make a city stronger. Mobile would thus have not only shipbuilding, but much commerce passing through it too.

It goes beyond that, Pittsburg had the advantage of being closer to Wallstreet and investors, furthermore politics in the South also hindered Birmingham's development, post civil war some of the plantation upperclass tied industry to reconstruction and it became a partisan battle hampering industrialization, the civil war helped but wasn't alone in stiffing development in the south.

The Planters were not the problem, as they had been trying to develop Birmingham since the 1850s. If the Civil War doesn't happen or is avoided, then the South can very easily develop Birmingham into every bit the Southern Pittsburgh, as the Planter class had as much wealth as the North in terms of assets; i.e. the total value of Northern railways, factories and farms was about the same as Southern slave holdings alone. If there is no Civil War, the North will not be able to impose Pittsburgh pricing on the South and if there is a Civil War that the South wins, they can also institute a tariff for good measure.

 

[History Learner]

I'd say quite a few cities in Germany and Poland, as well as in Eastern Europe could have been a lot better than they are now. Thanks a lot, Hitler!

IIRC, Warsaw was like 90% destroyed by 1945. Vilnius is also still like 50% Polish, so it staying within Poland would also likely make it much better off, as part of Poland making it a prestige project to really seal the deal.

I've also seen it argued that the current trend of affluent coasts and rotting interior/Midwest in the United States may be tied into the WWII mobilization and then the 1959 Recession. Don't know if I agree with that, but it's another issue that can be chalked up to WWII.

 

[sillygoose]

I've also seen it argued that the current trend of affluent coasts and rotting interior/Midwest in the United States may be tied into the WWII mobilization and then the 1959 Recession. Don't know if I agree with that, but it's another issue that can be chalked up to WWII.

Do you have more on this theory? Sounds interesting

 

[History Learner]

Do you have more on this theory? Sounds interesting

Theres a book that argues it but I cannot for the life of me remember what it is called now.

 

[History Learner]

I have more, if you all are still interested...

El Paso, Texas - I have no idea if this is accurate, but to quote from Wikipedia:

Navigation was active during much of the 19th century,[12] with over 200 different steamboats operating between the river's mouth close to Brownsville, and Rio Grande City, Texas. Many steamboats from the Ohio and Mississippi Rivers were requisitioned by the US government and moved to the Rio Grande during the Mexican War in 1846. They provided transport for the U.S. Army, under General Zachary Taylor, to invade Monterrey, Mexico, via Camargo Municipality, Tamaulipas. Army engineers recommended that with small improvements, the river could easily be made navigable as far north as El Paso.[citation needed] Those recommendations were never acted upon.

If is true, and combined with the Southern Trans-Continental Railway PoD mentioned earlier, then you could easily see El Paso as one of the Top Three cities in Texas thanks to being a major transportation center. Goods could come up via ship along the Rio Grande and from there take the railway to California or vice versa.

New York City, New York - Yes, NYC like Chicago was already great but it could've been even grander had the proposal to extend it been successful:

 

[History Learner]

The United Party winning the 1948 South African elections seems like a clear cut way to make cities like Cape Town larger and more grand by bringing in millions of European immigrants in the late 1940s and 1950s. The lack of "hard Aaprtheid" by the National Party could also lead to an earlier Coloured-White-Asian alliance and better economics for all members, which would also lead to better cities.

 

[History Learner]

The U.S. developing a HSR system, such as these various proposals show, would obviously be a net boon for the cities in question. This thread has a lot of good information and suggested PoDs. Sorry for the Ameri-centric nature of my suggestions so far, I'm not really well versed in city development outside of the U.S./North America.

 

[Buba]

Top of mind:
- Antverp - had the Rebellion held on to it. Amsterdam remains a backwater, Antverp becomes the biggest by far city in the area;
- Frankfurt - in several small PODs it becomes the capital of (North) Germany;
- there is a sleepy fishing village to the north of Vancouver - the Canadian robber train baron who wanted his RR to have its Pacific terminus there went down with the Titanic;
- Thessaloniki - if it stays in the same country as its hinterland it'd had grown to larger size. It could be the capital of a country encompassing OT Greece, Macedonia and parts of Serbia and/or Bulgaria;
- Novgorod - if it says independent and its population is not genocided by Muscovy;

 

[History Learner]

Top of mind:
- Antverp - had the Rebellion held on to it. Amsterdam remains a backwater, Antverp becomes the biggest by far city in the area;
- Frankfurt - in several small PODs it becomes the capital of (North) Germany;
- there is a sleepy fishing village to the north of Vancouver - the Canadian robber train baron who wanted his RR to have its Pacific terminus there went down with the Titanic;
- Thessaloniki - if it stays in the same country as its hinterland it'd had grown to larger size. It could be the capital of a country encompassing OT Greece, Macedonia and parts of Serbia and/or Bulgaria;
- Novgorod - if it says independent and its population is not genocided by Muscovy;

Port Nelson for the guy who died on the Titanic, while Frankfurt was seriously considered for the capital of West Germany IOTL. Thessaloniki would probably do great in a surviving Byzantium/Bulgarian Empire TL.