What If? California and Japan switch location?

[S'task]

And Japan has a population of 125 million or so, so they literally would have over a quarter of the US population if they did join the States, a ludicrous voting block. If you thought California's dominant numbers were bad wait until you see a single state with nearly as many votes as were cast in the entire 2020 election.

In fairness if Japan did become part of the US, they wouldn't do it as one state. They'd want to join as at least 3 (each of the main islands: Kyushu, Shikoku, and Honshu as each would be a logical state), though you could easily make a case for 4 or 5 separate states by splitting Honshu along some of it's natural lines. Plus they'd want as many Senators as they could manage to get and not just be limited to two if at all possible.

 

[Buba]

I can see China sending their equivalent of diver seal teams, or secret agents on fishing boats, across the channel. Or sending flying drones over.

And ninjas. Can't forget them ninjas!

And Japan would want to become part of the USA why?
Also - the USA would want them in why?

@S'task brought up a very good issue - just try to imagine the furball over Senate seats ...
So - Nippon no joinsu USA ...

Speaking of Yakuza - vely unhappy over having casinos withing driving range of Japan's border. Same about legality of cannabis ...
I fully agree that vicious wars with US&Mexican providers of drugs will erupt, with Police-Yakuza collusion being almost assured.

 

[S'task]

And Japan would want to become part of the USA why?
Also - the USA would want them in why?

For these all the reasons are very similar: further economic and military integration.

So, from the American perspective, the switched out Japan greatly reduces our ability to reach the Pacific Ocean, and even with good relations with them, routing through Japan to reach the Pacific means they control those routes and can cut them off at a moment's notice, and the northern route through Washington State is simply not going to be able to handle the sheer amount.

On the Japanese side of things, the US is already one of Japan's largest trading partners the only reason we're not #1 has to do with geography. Put Japan where California is and the US will be their #1 trading partner. Full political integration with the US means no longer having to deal with international trade negotiations, they'd just be part of the common marketplace. That would have SERIOUS benefits for their major corporations.

Secondly on the military front, the only reason the US tolerates Canada not being part of the US is because Canada is so sparsely populated, so culturally similar, and it's entire nation so, well, vulnerable to the US that Canada cannot not be in the US sphere of military influence and control. Much of US defense doctrine is to make people fight OVER THERE, and keep the fighting away from the North American continent. Mexico is in a similar position, but there's also some serious geographical defenses in the southern US that allow Mexico a bit more leeway in not being as beholden to the US.

Japan being where it is now means that the US has, in effect, lost control of one of the coasts of North America. That is a militarily... unacceptable position for the US to be in. Japan also has a large enough population and economy that they could choose to do their own thing unbeholden to the US and thus prove a dangerous beachhead for hostile foreign powers if they so chose, and there's not much the US could do about it. As such, fully integrating Japan as formally part of the US solves that issue and resecures the west coast of North America.

So there ARE reasons for both to see advantages to integration. On the other hand, there's some serious obstacles too. There's MASSIVE cultural differences between the US and Japan on multiple levels. Japan's laws on many subjects would be in violation of the US constitution and laws, and I can see a lot of Japanese folks being hesitant to, well, have to adopt the more liberal American Constitution.

I think in the long term such integration would happen though. For a few reasons, the first is Japan's baby bust and need to support an aging population. Secondly you'd see massive cultural exchange happening even more than it does now, which over time would break down the barriers. Finally, the economic and military advantages to integration would only grow over time, especially the economic ones, as the two economies become more and more entwined not having to worry about international trade law and treaties being negotiated and renegotiated between DC and Tokyo would been seen as highly favorable to corps in both the US and Japan.

 

[Urabrask Revealed]

I can see a lot of Japanese folks being hesitant to, well, have to adopt the more liberal American Constitution.

Considering what these things did to the modern USA, I can see them being right about it.

 

[Buba]

I still don't buy a Japan-US union.
A fusion makes both ruling classes lose big time, hence I do not see this happening.

US loses control over one of its coasts? Hmmm ... what about Washington and Oregon jumping up and down and waving their arms in the corner over there?

 

[ATP]

No invasion,but USA would need to evacuate most of population.Where ?
And Japan would remain independent.They,just like China or Israel 2.0 belive to be chosen nation - but,unlike them,they are too polite to say so.

 

[Bear Ribs]

I wonder if Japan would attempt to buy or obtain the surrounding land, especially from Mexico who might be more amenable than the US to selling off a chunk.

Land is at a ridiculous premium in Japan due to its immense population relative to a small livable area. With more land being available by walking now, Japan might feel a strong pressure to try to obtain some of that land. I could see them trying to buy Baja California and the Bay of Cortez, both to secure an area from the Mexican Mafia and to get more living space in a nice area. The fantastic pearls the Bay of Cortez produces would be icing.

On the flipside if they can't access the Pacific as easily, the US might also try to buy if they find out it's for sale, in order to have better access.

 

[S'task]

Considering what these things did to the modern USA, I can see them being right about it.

. . . The things that enabled the Progressives in the US are already present in the Japanese Constitution. I'm actually referring more to the 2nd amendment and Due Process clause, neither of which are exactly liked by Progressives these days.

 

[S'task]

I still don't buy a Japan-US union.
A fusion makes both ruling classes lose big time, hence I do not see this happening.

US loses control over one of its coasts? Hmmm ... what about Washington and Oregon jumping up and down and waving their arms in the corner over there?

Neither state has the infastructure nessesary to replace California, and even with them, the majority of that coast is now Japan, not the US. Further closing off Astoria and Seattle, the two primary ports in those states, is trivial for a hostile power, and Astoria does not have anywhere near the infastructure to accomidate the loss of the California ports, which means that neither does Seattle as while it is a major port, it can't accomidate all the traffic that was coming through the California ports. You're also routing things north by a thousand miles, and the US internal roads and rails are built to distribute like that.

No, Oregon and Washington's exsistence doesn't mean the US has effective alternatives, nor do they mean the US has lost control of the West coast, it means the US shares control with Japan, a strategic position the US would be uncomfortable with.

 

[ParadiseLost]

Wait, so is Japan's costaline actually attached to the US so that Japan is no longer an island and now has a large land border with the US?

 

[Buba]

Wait, so is Japan's costaline actually attached to the US so that Japan is no longer an island and now has a large land border with the US?

Yes.
And inside hours millions of American weeabos with Hentai Things on their minds are heading West to shake hands with Pikachu or Sailor Moon or whatever ...

 

[Bear Ribs]

The Japanese Fence industry just got a tremendous sales boom...

 

[ParadiseLost]

The Japanese Fence industry just got a tremendous sales boom...

Massive understatement.

Given Japan now has a much more defensible location, a lot of the JSDF gets repurposed into border patrol forces.

Japan absolutely would not be okay with the level of illegal immigration that the US is okay with.

 

[Urabrask Revealed]

Japan absolutely would not be okay with the level of illegal immigration that the US is okay with.

Indeed. We would hear a lot of whining about "unnecessary roughness" and "literal genocides" occuring on the borders.

 

[Husky_Khan]

At a glance the JSDF ground forces and certainly the Navy and Coast Guard have enough to secure their borders until the situation is semi stabilized.

You can have border control without Genocide. It'll still trigger the Libs but Japan just has to not care. There is nothing inhuman about putting illegal immigrants into temporary quarantine or shelter before bussing them back across the border and telling Mexico to get control of its border shit if it wants more Japanese investment.

 

[ATP]

Yes.
And inside hours millions of American weeabos with Hentai Things on their minds are heading West to shake hands with Pikachu or Sailor Moon or whatever ...

There are many Elvis Presley cospleyers in Japan,so they would go other way.
And about Mexico and narco dealers - i arleady pity those who get to japaneese prisons.

 

[Crazysaneman]

I think it would all depend on the United States to decide if they are going to ignore the sovereignty of Japan and force them to join the US as part of the landmass, as well as if they would give up their rights to California as a state (yeah right, sovereign soil so close to China? With such a strong military presence?).

California's power infrastructure instantly disappears, as it was part of the mainland US and now is an island nation. This creates a problem as the military bases protecting the California coast now have to defend it against incursion by China, Russia and whoever else decides they want a piece, from the far side of the new island. Gas generators only last so long and probably wouldn't last long enough for a complete rebuild of the infrastructure. Japan wouldn't see a loss so drastic, being part of the mainland US now, as well as being mostly self sufficient before the swap they should recover quickly.

The US mainland would probably opt to treat California like they do Hawaii, as a forgotten state. It's out there, but no one really cares. Unless they want to vacation somewhere a bottle of water costs $4.00. Meanwhile it pollutes the voting system of the mainland. I suppose it could serve as a stationing island for invasion into N. Korea, China, or Russia, but that's a whole other can of worms. Japan would probably want to keep their sovereignty, but they don't have much of a standing army just the defense force, and it wouldn't stand up to the might of the US military for very long, Especially given that one of the largest military ports that exists is in San Diego, and all those ships could potentially still be off the west coast. The US would have to adjust for over 85.5 million new people in it's population pool, after subtracting Californias population from Japans.

Trade would suffer, as nearly all of the imported products come through ports at Los Angeles (#1), Long Beach(#2), or Oakland(#10). Those ports now directly face the US across the Pacific, whereas the military force that faced across the pacific towards our enemies now faces us, and the unprotected border that faced Nevada and Arizona now face China, Russia, and Korea. Meanwhile the ports that support most of Japan's trade in Tokyo, Nagoya, Osaka, and Kobe are all now trying to scramble to make up the difference, and the militarized side of the island now faces Nevada and Arizona.

If the US military made any strong moves into positioning naval yards or military numbers on the new island state of California, someone would probably nuke it out of existence. Let's face it, the only thing keeping the nukes grounded right now is the fact that the US is so far away from the commie trio they would get early warning indicators. If the US had the military might they have in California less than 200 miles from S. Korea, the commie trio wold lose their collective (haha) minds.

 

[ShadowArxxy]

In fairness if Japan did become part of the US, they wouldn't do it as one state. They'd want to join as at least 3 (each of the main islands: Kyushu, Shikoku, and Honshu as each would be a logical state), though you could easily make a case for 4 or 5 separate states by splitting Honshu along some of it's natural lines. Plus they'd want as many Senators as they could manage to get and not just be limited to two if at all possible.

The population range of existing U.S. states is 38.37 million for California down to 580,000 for Wyoming.

So speaking in terms of population, Honshu with its population of over 104 million would have to become at least three states in order to have anything even slightly resembling a fair representation. Given that the five traditional regions of Honshu all have populations well within the range of states (Kanto region being the highest at over 42 million, Chugoku region being the smallest at 7.6 million), it would be entirely reasonable to give them statehood on that basis.

The only other Japanese island with sufficient population to justify multi-state status would be Kyushu, with a population of 14.3 million (including Okinawa, which is part of Kyushu's administrative region despite being a physically separate island). The more generous option is to follow the precedent of Honshu and allow statehood for all three traditional regions (Northern Kyushu, Southern Kyushu, and Okinawa); the less generous one is to fold Okinawa into Southern Kyushu because they have only 1.4 and 4.1 million people respectively.

The other two main islands -- Hokkaido in the north and Shikoku in the south -- would be single states.

-----

The minimum representation you could even *remotely* justify would be Kanto and Kansai regions as one state each, the other three regions of Honshu as one state, Kyushu and Shikoku combined as one state, and Hokkaido as one state. That's "only" five states, but with Kanto displacing California as the largest state in the Union, Kansai shoving Florida and New York down to fifth and sixth, and Kyushu-Shikoku coming just under New York and well ahead of Illinois in seventh.

In other words, even under minimum plausible representation the "Japanese States" would include three of the ten largest states in the Union and even the *smallest* one (Hokkaido) would still rank in the upper half of U.S. states.

 

[Urabrask Revealed]

If these parts of Japan joined the United States, how drastic would the change in discourse? I don't the japanese culture approves of the majority of things we were already starting to see during 2020.

 

[Buba]

If these parts of Japan joined the United States, how drastic would the change in discourse? I don't the japanese culture approves of the majority of things we were already starting to see during 2020.

And this is why annexation/union between USA and Japan so not happening.
Neither political class will accept loss/diminishing of its power.