Buffy the Vampire Slayer, a discussion thread and retrospective

[ShadowArxxy]

I'll be honest, while I don't hate Xander, I have come to hate all the Xanderwank fics I see to the point that I get very leery about reading any fics that focus on him.

IMO, the really massive failure point for most Xanderwank fics is that the authors decide that making Xander the main character means Buffy and/or Willow need to be made into villains via horrible flanderization.

 

[Spartan303]

IMO, the really massive failure point for most Xanderwank fics is that the authors decide that making Xander the main character means Buffy and/or Willow need to be made into villains via horrible flanderization.

Not all do that. More than a few do though, which is sad. Which is why I love 'I Am What I Am' and even 'The Wonderland Subject. I consider those two the best with Chains of Ascension up there with them.

 

[Typhonis]

Then there are some out there Xander fics.... like "On a Hellmouth, Chained." I miss Chilord.

 

[Tiamat]

I don't see the reason to hate any of the original cast....well, Cordelia needed not one but SEVERAL slaps around the head, but she got better over time. That and most guys liked her because....to quote another writer, "she's hot and has a great ass"! But again, her character got better thankfully, just wish it hadn't taken so long.

I admit to being a big Jennifer Calendar fan, but again that's partly because she got killed too damn early, and to please the Oz/Willow shippers (as it was originally planned to have Angelus kill Oz). Now Oz....again, I don't particularly dislike the guy, and Seth Greene is hilarious, but I never really got the Oz character.



Now, IF we were to start moving on to some of the OTHER characters, say Season 4 and beyond? Oh dear....

Riley was FLAT. I mean come on! I get it, Hollywood, but clearly the writers never really spoke with a lot of veterans and knew just how "unique" military humor is, or just how sarcastic your average veteran can be?

Dawn....yes, christ almighty, she was annoying, but no, they just wouldn't kill her off, would they?

Glory....I guess she was supposed to be annoying for a reason? But she was annoying to the point she wasn't funny or all that great a villain at all.

The Nerds....they would have worked best as one of the "monsters of the week". But then we got stuck with Andrew....yes, I wanted him dead too. What a waste of space.

And finally, it should be worth noting....Kennedy. They should have killed her in the beginning.


Geez, guess there's a lot of characters I wouldn't have minded seeing dead, but at least they're just supporting characters.



P.S. The "Initiative" idea as a whole and just about everyone associated with it was BEYOND stupid.

 

[DarthOne]

P.S. The "Initiative" idea as a whole and just about everyone associated with it was BEYOND stupid.

What else do you expect? That they’d make the US look like the good guys? That they’d make someone besides the main cast and especially those in the Intended Audience age look redundant or stupid?

 

[Tiamat]

What else do you expect? That they’d make the US look like the good guys? That they’d make someone besides the main cast and especially those in the Intended Audience age look redundant or stupid?

@DarthOne , I think it was less that, and more they were trying to copycat "the X Files" which was pretty popular around this time. Thing is, there's a way to mesh those shows, to an extent, there were a few decent fics I remember that actually pulled it off somewhat. But the Initiative? Horrible idea, it's like they were taking every tired terrible trope and just running with it.

 

[DarthOne]

@DarthOne , I think it was less that, and more they were trying to copycat "the X Files" which was pretty popular around this time. Thing is, there's a way to mesh those shows, to an extent, there were a few decent fics I remember that actually pulled it off somewhat. But the Initiative? Horrible idea, it's like they were taking every tired terrible trope and just running with it.

The point is also that if the US government and others can do Buffy and Company’s job better then they can, what’s the point of them?

 

[Tiamat]

The point is also that if the US government and others can do Buffy and Company’s job better then they can, what’s the point of them?

Considering the disaster the whole Initiative turned out to be? "Doing it better" than Buffy's gang is kind of up for debate. The setting was stupid (under a college campus??), the organization was stupid (led by a DOCTOR?), the weapons and equipment (taser guns?? No body armor, no automatic weapons or heavy weapons??), no tactics of any sort, etc.


But then again, let's be honest? In the "real world", Buffy or any other Slayer alone (as presented on the show) would easily get smoked by a competent trained, and well equipped SWAT team, even more so with a well-trained and equipped Light or Mechanized Infantry squad. I stress "as presented on the show"....because they're still using MEDIEVAL weapons and martial arts to take down monsters. I guess the Watcher's Council forgot it was no longer the Medieval era.


And please accept my humble apologies in advance before any Buffy fans decide to dogpile on me.

 

[ShadowArxxy]

The point is also that if the US government and others can do Buffy and Company’s job better then they can, what’s the point of them?

Well, part of the problem there is that if you take the series seriously, Buffy's mandate as a Slayer comes from a British organization that has no lawful authority in the United States, although they apparently have enough soft influence to muddle through to a degree.

The meta-plot makes it necessary to alienate Buffy from the U.S. government so that she continues to operate independently rather than becoming lawfully backed.

 

[Agent23]

I'll be honest, while I don't hate Xander, I have come to hate all the Xanderwank fics I see to the point that I get very leery about reading any fics that focus on him.

You do know that those fics are a direct product of the fact that he was supposed to be a weak, incompetent punching bag around to make the slayers look good because Joss Wheadon is a feminazi cuck, right?

I don't care much for BtVS aside for some of the fsnservicy aspects and fanfics myself, the whole thing was pretty forgettable, but I view the Xanderwhank as a very healthy counterpoint.In particular, the ship of the line thing was loads of fun.I was even toying with the idea to try and write one Xanderwhank fanfic where he dresses as a Necron Cryptek or a Blindsight Blampire, myself. Then he becomes a sort of fusion, and retains much of the other's attitude, with the obligatory SG-1 crossover of course, because that was a things too. In the field of Xanderwhank I think that Xandermercenary which had him dress as Tagon was the absolute best.

 

[LordSunhawk]

I should make it clear that fics that *fix* Xander to be less of a comic relief character, while still avoiding bashing other characters, are not what I consider 'Xanderwank'. But those are gems hidden in the overall slop pile of Xanderwank fics.

 

[DarthOne]

Well, part of the problem there is that if you take the series seriously, Buffy's mandate as a Slayer comes from a British organization that has no lawful authority in the United States, although they apparently have enough soft influence to muddle through to a degree.

The meta-plot makes it necessary to alienate Buffy from the U.S. government so that she continues to operate independently rather than becoming lawfully backed.

That's part of what I was trying to get at. But I am shit at explaining things.

 

[Sergeant Foley]

So, it's been about 22 years since Buffy first aired. Big cultural phenomenon, or so it would seem. I didn't really start watching the show until much later as I was over in Europe for most of the 90's. That said, I will make this a wide open debate/discussion/retrospect, etc. What did people think of the show? What could have been done better? What stood out? What moments were great, and what absolutely sucked? What about the characters? And what about the Buffy "verse" in itself...? And how has the show aged 20 years later...?

Again, open floor discussion, and I'll pipe in my opinions as well.

Did someone say "Buffy The Vampire Slayer"? I only watched it because of Sarah Michelle Gellar and the other beautiful women on the TV Series.

Brings back good memories of the late 1990s.

 

[Agent23]

I should make it clear that fics that *fix* Xander to be less of a comic relief character, while still avoiding bashing other characters, are not what I consider 'Xanderwank'. But those are gems hidden in the overall slop pile of Xanderwank fics.

Xandermercenary is not ehanknby that definition, but his version of the thoughs can probably beat up most of ehst you consider Xanderwhank.

Me, I consider whank in the context anything that can wipe the floor with the rest of the setting with ease.

For example, there was a piece of whank where a bunch of them dressed as 40k characters with Xander being dresses as either a custodes of a Gray Knight, but buffy despite being just an SoB still ran shit and they somehow got a massive tech level boost to the point where they were totally fucking the SG-1 crossover with the Ori proving to be the only credible opposition.

But even then there was something about "muh starchild", oh, and SG-1 alligned themselves with a bunch of Tau.

So, yeah, thst is absolute and shitty whank to me even when you exclude the LGBTQ crap involving Buffy that was added.

 

[Agent23]

Did someone say "Buffy The Vampire Slayer"? I only watched it because of Sarah Michelle Gellar and the other beautiful women on the TV Series.

Brings back good memories of the late 1990s.

Yes, this is a thresd about fanfics related to it, maybe you have noticed.

And I will agree about Geller and more so about Charissima Carpenter, aka the school queen bitch, Alison Hanigan, because who doesn't love a nerdy girl, and Elisa Dushku.

Me, I got into it late because it came in late on Bulgarian TV.

Pretty much your run of the mill teen drama with some supernatural shit and mistery/action elements.

I did get a lot of it via other means and binge it while skipping to the good bits, but ultimately it was pretty forgettable and kinda spoiled thanks to some fanfics I read back on SB(thanks, Joe, for helping me on the road to becoming the perverted old man I am turning into today )and through ttHM, since it was often crossed over with stuff I liked.

Now on the subject of Cordelia, well there was one fun story where she dressed as Honor Harrington, complete eith her own Nimitz, ultimately becoming a non-bitch.

And another where she dressed as Max Payne's love interest(Mona Sax?!?), with Xander being Max Payne.

And I literally remember more about those fanfics than I do about the series itself.
Especially a little something called "Nude Day Dawning".

 

[UberIguana]

I was even toying with the idea to try and write one Xanderwhank fanfic where he dresses as a Necron Cryptek

The contrast between the usual magical problems and solutions and the Necron 'let's BSOD the laws of physics into doing what we want' would be a source of entertainment all on its own. Or Xander kicks off a major incident among the magical community after trying to use an airborne retrovirus to insert pariah genes into everyone because he 'didn't think anyone would notice'. The Cryptek mindset when it comes to science is always fun to see put into practice (from a safe distance).

 

[Agent23]

The contrast between the usual magical problems and solutions and the Necron 'let's BSOD the laws of physics into doing what we want' would be a source of entertainment all on its own. Or Xander kicks off a major incident among the magical community after trying to use an airborne retrovirus to insert pariah genes into everyone because he 'didn't think anyone would notice'. The Cryptek mindset when it comes to science is always fun to see put into practice (from a safe distance).

Yeah, I was also thinking of putting in a decent amount of internal monologue describing the body horror of being left as a wird cybernetic organism thanks to rampant tech and magic that never should have mixed.
And to watch him slowly become more ruthless, "because it is the most efficient thing to do/for science" until he becomes totally unrecognisable to his allies and they can only respond with cliches like "muh feelz."Or "that I'd wrong".

So, basically make it darker and edgier, with the "Necron" part of his mind striving, changing him and yearning for something...that is now kinda irrelevant.


The war in haven is over.

No longer in the 40 k universe.

Immortal, in possession of far more advanced tech than anyone else, even if the obligatory SG-1 crossover happened.

Why would you do anything more to mess with things and potentially rock the boat.

Habits?

Oh, and od course, Kinsey would be getting one of those scarabs burrowing into him and turning him into a meat pupper ASAP.

 

[Ash's Boomstick]

I've written BTVS fic on and off since I discovered fanfic (about 1998/99) and while I'm better know for my Spacebattles style fic, when it comes to Xander fics and crossovers I try to write them as him fighting a way a human should. This includes using tools and evolving the way they fight, which is something far too many fics seem to ignore. You don't need a wank to improve a single person's odds against an enemy, you need to figure out how best for them to fight and in BTVS its actually very easy to do so but of course given the writers of the series they deliberately limited the main characters and did even worse with the non main cast.

 

[Typhonis]

I remember one crossover fic I wrote. In it Xander would never, ever leave Cordy willingly. They both got costumes from Ethans..that matched. Cordy as Morticia Addams. Xander as Gomes. One bunny I had was the fun of the real Addams family coming west to meet the new members of the family. Because as far as they are concerned Xander and Cordy are family.

 

[Agent23]

I remember one crossover fic I wrote. In it Xander would never, ever leave Cordy willingly. They both got costumes from Ethans..that matched. Cordy as Morticia Addams. Xander as Gomes. One bunny I had was the fun of the real Addams family coming west to meet the new members of the family. Because as far as they are concerned Xander and Cordy are family.