Buffy the Vampire Slayer, a discussion thread and retrospective

[ShadowArxxy]

In it Xander would never, ever leave Cordy willingly.

My two cents about it is Xander's standout trait is his loyalty -- you can plausibly set him up with pretty much any of the girls in the early cast, but once you do, it's very out of character for him not to stick to that relationship with tenacity. I can see him not handling conflict within a relationship *optimally* simply because he doesn't have good role models *or* past experience to work from, but he's fundamentally a loyal and steady sort.

(In particular -- yes, he had a huge crush on Buffy. He's not going to cheat on anyone else *even* if Buffy's throwing herself at him, and if she tries to flirt on him to make Angel jealous *while he's dating anyone in the gang*, he's going to respond very negatively to that. He tacitly let it slide in canon because of the unrequited crush *and* because he didn't have a relationship at the time; if you change the circumstance there, he's going to be *seriously pissed*.)

 

[Spartan303]

My two cents about it is Xander's standout trait is his loyalty -- you can plausibly set him up with pretty much any of the girls in the early cast, but once you do, it's very out of character for him not to stick to that relationship with tenacity. I can see him not handling conflict within a relationship *optimally* simply because he doesn't have good role models *or* past experience to work from, but he's fundamentally a loyal and steady sort.

(In particular -- yes, he had a huge crush on Buffy. He's not going to cheat on anyone else *even* if Buffy's throwing herself at him, and if she tries to flirt on him to make Angel jealous *while he's dating anyone in the gang*, he's going to respond very negatively to that. He tacitly let it slide in canon because of the unrequited crush *and* because he didn't have a relationship at the time; if you change the circumstance there, he's going to be *seriously pissed*.)

Xander wasn't just crushing on Buffy. He was in love with her. A love that was never returned. Willow would never work especially in light of her true sexuality coming to light. It was either going to be Buffy, Cordelia or Faith and that was it. Buffy said no, Faith played with him before tossing him aside and the Jasmine Curse destroyed Xander and Cordelia before it could get serious. Xander and Anya didn't have much in common except getting groiny and really not having anyone else. They weren't with each other because each was the others first option. They were together because they were their ONLY option. And we saw how that played out.

This is one of the reasons why Xander Fanfiction still persists after all these years. He is constantly emasculated and shitted on by the writers and many of the fans. He's loyal and brave and hardly ever given credit for that. Its even worse when you realize the Ark of badassness that was Wesley was initially supposed to be Xanders but the writer left to go to AoS. So Xander was purposely written to be an everyday normal man who starts as nothing and remains as nothing. Which satisfies absolutely no one. Thus the Fanfiction.

 

[Agent23]

Xander wasn't just crushing on Buffy. He was in love with her. A love that was never returned. Willow would never work especially in light of her true sexuality coming to light. It was either going to be Buffy, Cordelia or Faith and that was it. Buffy said no, Faith played with him before tossing him aside and the Jasmine Curse destroyed Xander and Cordelia before it could get serious. Xander and Anya didn't have much in common except getting groiny and really not having anyone else. They weren't with each other because each was the others first option. They were together because they were their ONLY option. And we saw how that played out.

I thought that initially Xander and Willow looked like they might make a potential couple.

And to be honest, her being a lesbian stank of leftoid virtue signalling and pandering.

Frankly I think there should be more fanfics where her and her doggy gf (warewolf was it) should be made part of his harem.

They can still carpet munch, trib and use latex substitutes while he is not around.

This is one of the reasons why Xander Fanfiction still persists after all these years. He is constantly emasculated and shitted on by the writers and many of the fans. He's loyal and brave and hardly ever given credit for that. Its even worse when you realize the Ark of badassness that was Wesley was initially supposed to be Xanders but the writer left to go to AoS. So Xander was purposely written to be an everyday normal man who starts as nothing and remains as nothing. Which satisfies absolutely no one. Thus the Fanfiction.

You mean like what I said?

 

[DarthOne]

And to be honest, her being a lesbian stank of leftoid virtue signalling and pandering.

Because it was just that. The thin edge of the degenerate wedge.

Frankly I think there should be more fanfics where her and her doggy gf (warewolf was it) should be made part of his harem.

I believe that was Oz and he was a dude. Widow originally had a boyfriend before being revealed as a lesbo.

 

[Agent23]

Because it was just that. The thin edge of the degenerate wedge.

Now this will shock you, but I actually like Yuri.

Also, waminz, being s lot more social than men tend to get into some degree of carpet munching according to the based scientist Jolly Heretic, although according to him that infatuation is usually temporary.
And waminz being waminz they start backstabbing and sneering at each other and probably a good deal of them beat or passive aggressive "you know what you did" each other out of the phase.
Lesbians have the highest rate of domestic violence, which contrasts with gay men, who have the lowest.
Yay for testosterone, the Y chromosome, and an evolutionary adaptation to well organized hunting parties and proper social hierarchy vs. digging up roots and chattering with the rest of the hens.
Also take a look of the lesbians on anime vs. lesbians in real life meme I shared a while back.
Furthermore, Yuri and Yaoi are mostly made for the opposite gender, since guys can stand some bloke boinking their waifus and best girl as much as waminz can stand some floozy getting mating pressed by their favorite hunk, which is not at all. Contrast that with western garbage which is just empty virtue signalling.

I believe that was Oz and he was a dude. Widow originally had a boyfriend before being revealed as a lesbo.

Dunno, but there was something weird about that late addition totally uninteresting forced same sex love interest.

 

[DarthOne]

Now this will shock you, but I actually like Yuri.

I don't. Degeneracy is degeneracy.

 

[Agent23]

I don't. Degeneracy is degeneracy.

Now I need to pitch an idea about a crossover between buffy and Miss Kobayashi's Dragon Maid.

And MGLN.

And Gushing over Magical Girls.


Got to keep up with my old pervert rep, ya know.

Anyways, since we drifted I to Animu land I propose we do a few Buffy character Isekais.

Like for example send Xander, or Cordelia or Buffy or Willow into a rough equivalent of:
A) https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/My_Next_Life_as_a_Villainess:_All_Routes_Lead_to_Doom!
B) Overlord (novel series) - Wikipedia

For B, Xander deserves to get Old Bones's seat and powers and be OP for once.

Actually, him dressing as Old Bones would be a good Halloween fanfic, wonder if there aren't a dozen or so already.
Of course we can stick Buffy, Cordelia, Faith or Willow into that position, but let us make them non boney.

For A you can have more character drama and make it less curbstompy.

Like sticking any single one of the female characters in the role of the future villainess of the series.

IMHO even mega bitch Cordy would not be as nasty as some renaissance or "princess" in a world with magic.

Would work as a redemption ark.

For the rest well, you can have a bit of light hearted fun couples with the sizable change in behavior you get when a normal modern day person is put into the body of someone that stands to inherit a lot of power in a de facto medieval magical world.

Next up, another Xander idea.

The reason why he had had so much bad luck and constantly gets into trouble is due to the fact that he is the reincarnation of an OP demonlord.

And that soul's memories and those powers have awoken.

And no insane discussion of Isekai and anime crossovers will be complete I'd we don't drag The Familiar of Zero - Wikipedia
into it, just swap Saitonwith whoever from the Scoobies or Cordelia.

Cordelia getting to be Luise's familiar would be such poetic justice.

 

[Agent23]

Thinking about it there must be at least a few crossovers where Xander dresses as Ciaphas Cain for Halloween, I think I even read one, but I never got that into it.
I had no idea who Cain was at the time.

Anyone got any good recs for such a fic?

And maybe ones where he dresses as other commissars like Gaunt, or inquisitors, like Eisenhorn or pre-ceippling injury Ravenor.

Also, here is a other good idea, given that Rogue Trader the PC RPG is rather decent, why not have him dress up as one, and retain his memories, gadgets and ship and crew after!

For shits and giggles you can have all the Scoobies and the Cordy clique dress as ones, and do the customary crossover with SG-1.

 

[AJW]

I've been thinking recently about doing a Buffy/DCAU crossover where Xander's car doesn't breakdown in Oxnard when he leaves for his cross country road trip. Instead he continues on his journey - doing odd jobs here and there when he needs money and occasionally mugging vampires after disabling them (since a gunshot to the knee will stop a vampire just as readily as it would a human) before dusting them - and ultimately ends up in Dakota City in time to get caught up in the Quantum Vapour explosion known as the Big Bang.

Now unlike in others in this vein I've read he actually doesn't meet up with Virgil Hawkins at all instead he is just settling into a motel room near the harbour - with a window open to let in some fresh air since its a cheap motel and the air conditioning isn't up to scratch which lets the gas in when the explosion happens due to the gang activity. Powers wise I am thinking that Xander's aren't necessarily that flashy - certainly no energy blasts - but more tie into the knowledge of the soldier left in his head and the partial changes made to his physiology due to his exposure to Coach Marin's formula in the swim team episode. As a result he'd be a bit more like Captain America in that he gets peak physical condition and strength but nothing outright superhuman. Something that will just make him a much better fighter against supernatural evils. Though his ability to spot patterns could also get improved a bit - there is a reason after all why Caleb in the season that should not be named called him The One Who See's - which might help a bit as well.

Not sure if he would return to Sunnydale since Buffy and Willow with their whole Xander must be normal mindset and belief that they know best would see them wanting to take it away from him, but could end up either in LA or somewhere else. Thing is I don't know enough about North American geography to put him in many cities.

 

[Agent23]

I've been thinking recently about doing a Buffy/DCAU crossover where Xander's car doesn't breakdown in Oxnard when he leaves for his cross country road trip. Instead he continues on his journey - doing odd jobs here and there when he needs money and occasionally mugging vampires after disabling them (since a gunshot to the knee will stop a vampire just as readily as it would a human) before dusting them - and ultimately ends up in Dakota City in time to get caught up in the Quantum Vapour explosion known as the Big Bang.

Now unlike in others in this vein I've read he actually doesn't meet up with Virgil Hawkins at all instead he is just settling into a motel room near the harbour - with a window open to let in some fresh air since its a cheap motel and the air conditioning isn't up to scratch which lets the gas in when the explosion happens due to the gang activity. Powers wise I am thinking that Xander's aren't necessarily that flashy - certainly no energy blasts - but more tie into the knowledge of the soldier left in his head and the partial changes made to his physiology due to his exposure to Coach Marin's formula in the swim team episode. As a result he'd be a bit more like Captain America in that he gets peak physical condition and strength but nothing outright superhuman. Something that will just make him a much better fighter against supernatural evils. Though his ability to spot patterns could also get improved a bit - there is a reason after all why Caleb in the season that should not be named called him The One Who See's - which might help a bit as well.

Not sure if he would return to Sunnydale since Buffy and Willow with their whole Xander must be normal mindset and belief that they know best would see them wanting to take it away from him, but could end up either in LA or somewhere else. Thing is I don't know enough about North American geography to put him in many cities.

My 2 cents?

While you are very talented and I am sure that whatever you write will be good I don't care much for capeshit, and judging by all the recent flopd the general public is getting sick and tired of it for a multitude of reasons some even not related to Hollywood incompetence and leftoid pandering.

So I don't think it will be as well received as it would have been a few years ago.

That also beings back memories of Joe reeing about "the power of muh A.I." years back when I was talking about Xander potentially dressing as Iron Man or Tony Stark for helloween.

Also, he needs to dress like either Deadpool or the Punisher.

 

[DarthOne]

My 2 cents?

While you are very talented and I am sure that whatever you write will be good I don't care much for capeshit, and judging by all the recent flopd the general public is getting sick and tired of it for a multitude of reasons some even not related to Hollywood incompetence and leftoid pandering.

So I don't think it will be as well received as it would have been a few years ago.

That also beings back memories of Joe reeing about "the power of muh A.I." years back when I was talking about Xander potentially dressing as Iron Man or Tony Stark for helloween.

Also, he needs to dress like either Deadpool or the Punisher.

No, you want to go with a badass normal 'superhero' whose actually willing to kill? And doesn't fall into the typical capeshit stuff? Go with the Shadow.

Heck it's even more plausible than a lot of the typical Halloween AU suggestions- the shop had an old costume of the Shadow. Or perhaps one for the 1994 film. Either way, Xander, not caring about who it's supposed to be of, just buys it because it looks cool. Very teenager and I think in character for him.

The Shadow - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[UberIguana]

One idea I've been toying with for a Xander gets powers fic that isn't just another spin on Halloween: He gets bitten by a werewolf and, much like Oz, finds out it can be managed and controlled. Maybe Oz bit him, maybe he gets bitten instead of Oz to avoid character redundancy. Cue forced character development as he has to keep his head screwed on straight and figure out what really drives him to control the transformation and keep it going during a fight. The werewolf transformation would certainly be one way to keep up with the rest of the group. Werewolves are about on par with slayers in terms of strength and extremely resilient, plus much better senses than humans.

 

[Typhonis]

Go for broke. The soldier he went as was a relative. His grandfather William J Blaskowitcz.

 

[AJW]

So I don't think it will be as well received as it would have been a few years ago.

Superhero fatigue is a myth one used as an excuse by Hollywood media for why movies like The Marvels and Madame Web flop and shows like She-Hulk and Ms Marvel failed. The real reason they flop is the stories are beyond crap as the writers and directors are more focused on "The Message" than on telling a good story and the characters are unlikeable, unrelatable girl bosses who can never do any wrong and have zero character development. If superhero fatigue was a real thing then shows like The Boys and Invincible wouldn't be doing as well as they are.

Though speaking of Invincible I have thought a few times over the years - since I have been a fan of the comics since they first came out and still have many of them - about doing a YAHF where Xander dressed up as Invincible/Mark Grayson.

 

[DarthOne]

Superhero fatigue is a myth one used as an excuse by Hollywood media for why movies like The Marvels and Madame Web flop and shows like She-Hulk and Ms Marvel failed. The real reason they flop is the stories are beyond crap as the writers and directors are more focused on "The Message" than on telling a good story and the characters are unlikeable, unrelatable girl bosses who can never do any wrong and have zero character development. If superhero fatigue was a real thing then shows like The Boys and Invincible wouldn't be doing as well as they are.

Though speaking of Invincible I have thought a few times over the years - since I have been a fan of the comics since they first came out and still have many of them - about doing a YAHF where Xander dressed up as Invincible/Mark Grayson.

You have to say it right. Like so!

 

[Agent23]

Superhero fatigue is a myth one used as an excuse by Hollywood media for why movies like The Marvels and Madame Web flop and shows like She-Hulk and Ms Marvel failed. The real reason they flop is the stories are beyond crap as the writers and directors are more focused on "The Message" than on telling a good story and the characters are unlikeable, unrelatable girl bosses who can never do any wrong and have zero character development. If superhero fatigue was a real thing then shows like The Boys and Invincible wouldn't be doing as well as they are.

Though speaking of Invincible I have thought a few times over the years - since I have been a fan of the comics since they first came out and still have many of them - about doing a YAHF where Xander dressed up as Invincible/Mark Grayson.

Nah, people get tired of the same old thing eventually.

Westerns were a huge things then they weren't.

Then films about the mob.

Then zombies.

Now, superheroes.

Even if The Message wasn't a thing, the fad would have worn out by now.

Razorfist had a few great videos on thdt subject.

 

[nemo1986]

Superhero fatigue is a myth one used as an excuse by Hollywood media for why movies like The Marvels and Madame Web flop and shows like She-Hulk and Ms Marvel failed. The real reason they flop is the stories are beyond crap as the writers and directors are more focused on "The Message" than on telling a good story and the characters are unlikeable, unrelatable girl bosses who can never do any wrong and have zero character development. If superhero fatigue was a real thing then shows like The Boys and Invincible wouldn't be doing as well as they are.

Though speaking of Invincible I have thought a few times over the years - since I have been a fan of the comics since they first came out and still have many of them - about doing a YAHF where Xander dressed up as Invincible/Mark Grayson.

Not really. If you eat the same thing over and over you get sick and tired of it. It's the same with the superhero genre. People are sick of seeing the same stuff that Hollywood puts out.

 

[Agent23]

Not really. If you eat the same thing over and over you get sick and tired of it. It's the same with the superhero genre. People are sick of seeing the same stuff that Hollywood puts out.

IMHO, and IIRC Razorfist agrees with it, a particular genre's golden age ends when all the deconstructions and parodies start to pop up.

So things like The Boys, and turning Captain America into a Nazi, and darker and edgier Batman.
And that stupid webnovel everyone on here and on SB was so crazy about with the darker and edgier bug controlling protagonist.

 

[Tiamat]

No, you want to go with a badass normal 'superhero' whose actually willing to kill? And doesn't fall into the typical capeshit stuff? Go with the Shadow.

Heck it's even more plausible than a lot of the typical Halloween AU suggestions- the shop had an old costume of the Shadow. Or perhaps one for the 1994 film. Either way, Xander, not caring about who it's supposed to be of, just buys it because it looks cool. Very teenager and I think in character for him.

The Shadow - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

"THE WEED OF CRIME....BEARS BITTER FRUIT. The SHADOW knows..."



HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAH!!!!!

 

[Agent23]

No, you want to go with a badass normal 'superhero' whose actually willing to kill? And doesn't fall into the typical capeshit stuff? Go with the Shadow.

Heck it's even more plausible than a lot of the typical Halloween AU suggestions- the shop had an old costume of the Shadow. Or perhaps one for the 1994 film. Either way, Xander, not caring about who it's supposed to be of, just buys it because it looks cool. Very teenager and I think in character for him.

The Shadow - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Razorfist, dis U?!?!

And yeah, I think it will be fairly cheap for Xander to dress like this guy.