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EU Belarus Intelligence Operation Hijacks Airliner

Arch Dornan

Oh, lovely. They've sent me a mo-ron.
True that this is pure banditry, but other countries do same or worse.
So, nothing to see here, move along ...
Those in power don't like it when a journo acts real nosy and shines a light on them.

Remember Khashoggi? Assange too is a part of it they made big gangs on the national level unhappy and payed the price.
 

LordsFire

Internet Wizard
You just see things diffrent when you get access to it.
You have to take a diffrent attitude in this line of work.

I understand though

He revealed that freedoms and rights protected by the constitution were being violated as a matter of course.

If the NSA/DoD/whoever didn't want that getting out?

They shouldn't have violated the constitution in the first place.

That's the bottom line.

Internal corruption is more dangerous to the USA than foreign threats. This is more or less true for most nations, but for the US, with the Atlantic and the Pacific barriers, it's especially true.
 

Zachowon

The Army Life for me! The POG life for me!
Founder
He revealed that freedoms and rights protected by the constitution were being violated as a matter of course.

If the NSA/DoD/whoever didn't want that getting out?

They shouldn't have violated the constitution in the first place.

That's the bottom line.

Internal corruption is more dangerous to the USA than foreign threats. This is more or less true for most nations, but for the US, with the Atlantic and the Pacific barriers, it's especially true.
He also gave away methods on which we gathered intel on our enemies. Which ended up making our lives as the most powerful mikitary ever so fucking harder.
 

LordsFire

Internet Wizard
He also gave away methods on which we gathered intel on our enemies. Which ended up making our lives as the most powerful mikitary ever so fucking harder.

If there's a clear delineation where revealing the one wasn't an integral part of the other, then there's some legitimate criticism there.

Even then, whistleblowing the horrible violations still deserves praise.

If there is no clear-cut separation between the one and the other, then it's the intel community's own damn fault for failing to self-police about this stuff.
 

Battlegrinder

Someday we will win, no matter what it takes.
Moderator
Staff Member
Founder
Obozny
There is a slight difference between what the US did and what Belarsus did, but only in terms of the precise methods and such, the effective goal was the same.

Speaking of what Belarsus did, the US has responded with, predictably enough, sanctions. Some airlines have started avoiding Belarsus airspace as well, and Moscow is backing Belarsus by not allowing flights into it's airspace if the airline reroutes to avoid Belarsus.
 

Zachowon

The Army Life for me! The POG life for me!
Founder
If there's a clear delineation where revealing the one wasn't an integral part of the other, then there's some legitimate criticism there.

Even then, whistleblowing the horrible violations still deserves praise.

If there is no clear-cut separation between the one and the other, then it's the intel community's own damn fault for failing to self-police about this stuff.
I can't contuine
 

Bacle

When the effort is no longer profitable...
Founder
He also gave away methods on which we gathered intel on our enemies. Which ended up making our lives as the most powerful mikitary ever so fucking harder.
The problem was what the US gov was doing to its own citizens violated the Constitution, no matter how useful the same methods might have been against our enemies.

Do you understand why Snowden is seen as a hero by many, because quite frankly they see the entire IC as as big a threat to our nation as any foreign adversary, and Snowden blew a whistle on abuses of the IC's abilities because they were being used against US citizens in violation of our Constitutional Rights.

Snowden could have handled his whistleblowing in a better fashion, and not run to Russia.

However the IC could also self-police better and respect the Constitution more when it comes to domestic issues, rather than treating the Constitution as an obstruction to be dodged around. If the IC had had better ethics and morals in how it handled domestic issues, I doubt Snowden would have been motivated to do what he did.
 

JagerIV

Well-known member
He also gave away methods on which we gathered intel on our enemies. Which ended up making our lives as the most powerful mikitary ever so fucking harder.

Oh no, the Gestapo has a slightly harder time arresting enemies of the party. Oh no, so sad. How terrible.

edit: fair enough. thanks for the info. I guess more or less everyone is on the "kidnapping is bad, but, well, this is what states do?"

edit edit: any very quick summary on what this guy did that got him in on Belarus'es shit list? Does he have contacts in the government that they're gonna try to grill him for?
 

PsihoKekec

Swashbuckling Accountant
any very quick summary on what this guy did that got him in on Belarus'es shit list? Does he have contacts in the government that they're gonna try to grill him for?
He started and moderated Telegram channels that opposition uses to coordinate protests against the government. The information they mostly want from him is about the foreign involvement in protests, most likely Polish Intelligence Agency.
 

Husky_Khan

The Dog Whistler... I mean Whisperer.
Founder
More details have emerged on the hijacking by Belarussian Security personnel.

> The aircrew tried to contact Ryanair in Poland but Minsk Air Traffic Control said "they weren't answering" the phone calls which apparently turned out to be a falsehood.

> The change of course occurred six miles from the Lithuanian border, when the pilot asked what the threat level was and was told it was "Red Alert" which apparently gives the pilot no option but to comply and land.

> Normally a flight diversion would be to Poland or the Baltic States but Belarus Air Traffic Control gave them no other options.

> Two of the passengers were removed in what was apparently "clearly" against their will. One of the three alleged security personnel who hijacked the plane and also remained in Minsk was apparently a Greek passenger, whatever that means.

> The Aircrew were pressured to state on video that they voluntarily complied with the orders to land in Minsk but refused to do so.

> To counter these claims Belarus air force chief Igor Golub said there was "no interception, no forced diversion from the state border or forced landing of the Ryanair plane".

 

Marduk

Well-known member
Moderator
Staff Member
> The change of course occurred six miles from the Lithuanian border, when the pilot asked what the threat level was and was told it was "Red Alert" which apparently gives the pilot no option but to comply and land.

> Normally a flight diversion would be to Poland or the Baltic States but Belarus Air Traffic Control gave them no other options.

> Two of the passengers were removed in what was apparently "clearly" against their will. One of the three alleged security personnel who hijacked the plane and also remained in Minsk was apparently a Greek passenger, whatever that means.
It is a bit confusing about what role the supposed security personnel had in this. Wasn't it flight control flexing authority and feeding the crew bullshit about a terror threat that made them change course?
From the article it only seems that the 3 shady operatives probably were there just to confirm that the guy was indeed onboard, and possibly also to proceed with other instructions in some unforeseen circumstances, for example, if he suddenly tried to destroy his electronic devices, or if the ruse failed and the plane proceeded to Lithuania.
He started and moderated Telegram channels that opposition uses to coordinate protests against the government. The information they mostly want from him is about the foreign involvement in protests, most likely Polish Intelligence Agency.
Also all information regarding all people even remotely involved in the channel. All information shared on the channel, including administrative access.
All information about opposition activities discussed in the channel.
Also all his own personal communications that may or may not be political.

There is a slight difference between what the US did and what Belarsus did, but only in terms of the precise methods and such, the effective goal was the same.

Yes, that's the point, the means were very different, and not even legally dubious in the former case.
Morales' plane was, in the end, "forced down" by physics alone - a bunch of US allied countries have been convinced to be assholes and refuse that plane access to their airspace, which they have a right to do as sovereign states. These countries happened to be on the plane's course, and considering the plane and distance involved, it was impossible to take a detour, at least not without a complex operation of organizing stopovers and refueling, certainly can't just pause a plane mid air. So the plane had no choice but to land somewhere nearby, and once it was landed, being on the territory of a certain state, that state decided to search it, as they kinda do have a right to with something landed on their airfield.

On the contrary, the Belarus case is legally questionable on one layer, and a case of state (not merely sponsored, but performed directly by its institutions and personnel ) terrorism on another layer.

Lets start with the questionable. Belarus technically can force a plane in its airspace to land in it. However, legally that's very complicated. There are some clear cases in which they can do that, and a lot of this stuff is governed by international agreements like the Chicago Convention, which Belarus has ratified. Most of that is explained here better than i could do it for those interested.

Besides that, i'm not sure what the rules are on forcing a landing of no-stop overflying passenger planes containing people who the state in question considers criminals in order to arrest them, but even then, the notable thing is that Belarus didn't do that, and didn't even claim it did that. One relevant thing i do know though is that onboard an airplane in flight, the laws of the state in which the plane is registered apply, rather than the law of the country below it (that changes when the plane lands). Belarus has also legally authorized the overflight. And that's of course because openly stating out that they want the plane down because a criminal accused of (political) offenses against the state of Belarus is onboard and they want to arrest him would be terrible diplomatic PR for Belarusian government, and would also raise complex issues under various international bodies and conventions that would not look good for Belarus. But they would not be getting accused of terrorism if they did that, so there's also the question of which would be worse.

And now to the unquestionably illegal. Belarusian services of this or that kind have crafted a probably false threat of terror bombing, and then Belarusian air traffic control (which in most cases an aircrew has a duty to obey, according to international conventions, including the ones i've mentioned earlier) communicated it to the aircrew in order to get it to divert to Minsk, while falsely claiming that the plane operator's management was unavailable for consultation (probably because the operator may have ordered the plane to divert to very close Polish border, or to ignore the fake bomb threat with suspicious conditionality and no independent confirmation). The threat was specifically crafted to state that continuing to Lithuania or landing in it would cause the bomb to explode.
As false bombing threats are still terrorist threats, and terrorist threats are also a form of terrorism, Belarus is guilty of that with no excuses available.
And that's really fucking bad. Its a less severe form of the same thing that got Operation El Dorado Canyon launched against Libya in 1986.
 
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Husky_Khan

The Dog Whistler... I mean Whisperer.
Founder
The US has charged four Belarusian officials with aircraft piracy over the diversion of a Ryanair passenger plane to Minsk last May.

BBC said:
Prosecutors allege the officials used a false bomb threat to divert a Ryanair flight to the Belarus capital, where opposition journalist Roman Protasevich and his partner were detained.

FBI officials said the incident was a "reckless violation".

Earlier this week a UN report concluded the bomb threat was deliberately false.

A spokesperson for the US Justice Department said the four men, Leonid Mikalaevich Churo and Oleg Kazyuchits - the director general and deputy director general of Belarus' state air navigation authority - and state security officers Andrey Anatolievich Lnu [Last Name Unknown] and Fnu [First Name Unknown] Lnu, remain at large in Belarus.

If they were tried in a US court they would face a life sentence.

The CEO of Ryanair also called the incident a "state sponsored hijacking."

 

Husky_Khan

The Dog Whistler... I mean Whisperer.
Founder
The BBC article didn't specify why the US Justice Department was able to do it.

Searched and found some US News & World Report article which pointed out the obvious.

US News said:
Four U.S. citizens were among the approximately 132 passengers and crew members aboard the flight, prosecutors said.

The defendants were charged in a one-count indictment alleging conspiracy to commit aircraft piracy on a plane where a U.S. national was aboard, violating U.S. federal law.

 

Husky_Khan

The Dog Whistler... I mean Whisperer.
Founder
Roman Protasevich, the Journalist that the Belarussian Intelligence Services Hijacked an International Flight to Abduct, wsa pardoned by the Lukashenko Regime instead of having to complete the eight year prison sentence for his confessions and guilty plea regarding organizing "mass unrest" during the Belarus Electoral Protests.

BBC said:
He thanked authoritarian leader Alexander Lukashenko for the pardon, amid questions as to whether he was forced to make pro-regime statements. "I am incredibly grateful to the country and of course, to the president personally for such a decision," he said. "This is, of course, just great news." He said he had not yet made any plans but would probably go to "a quiet place in the countryside for a couple of days... in order to take a breather and start to move forward."

It is not clear how the journalist was treated by the security services but it is believed that after his arrest he was coerced into making confessions and apologetic statements on state TV. Some opponents of the regime have accused him of collaborating with the authorities.

 

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