CarlManvers2019
Writers Blocked Douchebag
Say, who would be the most likely candidates to take over the Dothraki Sea amongst the Essosi City-States?
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Deleted member 88
Guest
None of them. None of them have the manpower or wherewithal to do so.
You need an empire like the Valyrians to take that region.
You need an empire like the Valyrians to take that region.
CarlManvers2019
Writers Blocked Douchebag
How hard would it be to kill the Dothraki en masse?
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Deleted member 88
Guest
You need an army in the hundreds of thousands if not millions. Or dragons.
CarlManvers2019
Writers Blocked Douchebag
How about takijg it slowly, bit by bit
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Deleted member 88
Guest
You still need an army and probably settlers to colonize the region. One will protect the other.
The Dothraki must be co opted or destroyed piece meal.
The Dothraki must be co opted or destroyed piece meal.
CarlManvers2019
Writers Blocked Douchebag
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Deleted member 88
Guest
The Dothraki didn’t use siege equipment in the century of blood. They often times defeated local forces outside the city walls, by burning all the crops and forcing them out.
The walled settlements would need to grow crops and livestock within the towns. Baggage trains would need to be protected jealously.
Crossbowmen would be very helpful in blunting Dothraki attacks.
You would still need a large force to carry this out. Dothraki settlements would need to be destroyed and women and children attacked to keep the Dothraki fighting men on the defensive.
The walled settlements would need to grow crops and livestock within the towns. Baggage trains would need to be protected jealously.
Crossbowmen would be very helpful in blunting Dothraki attacks.
You would still need a large force to carry this out. Dothraki settlements would need to be destroyed and women and children attacked to keep the Dothraki fighting men on the defensive.
CarlManvers2019
Writers Blocked Douchebag
@Lord Invictus
Say, ever read Robert E Howard’s works? This sorta reminded me of one of his stories
A Conan The Cimmerian story called Beyond The Black River
An Aquillonian colony in a land that was that of the savage Picts ended up burning down despite efforts due to not having enough reinforcements and said Picts murdering those who weren’t in the main fortress
Can see the same occurring without constant reinforcement TBH
Say, ever read Robert E Howard’s works? This sorta reminded me of one of his stories
A Conan The Cimmerian story called Beyond The Black River
An Aquillonian colony in a land that was that of the savage Picts ended up burning down despite efforts due to not having enough reinforcements and said Picts murdering those who weren’t in the main fortress
Can see the same occurring without constant reinforcement TBH
Qohor is the only one that theoretically might be able to do it. At least they have the potential geography for it.
Secure the break between the Forest of Qohor and the Selhoru river and they clip off the western bit of the Dothraki Sea. Bring that under cultivation, and blaze straight north to put a port on the Shivering Sea and they can probably become the breadbasket of Esso along with having the food surplus needed to raise a large enough army to steadily degrade the Dothraki.
Realistically though, none of the city states stand a chance of pulling it off. They all dislike one another more than they dislike the Dothraki and anyone of them that could theoretically contest the Dothraki would be hands down the most powerful of the city states. In addition, you are talking about trying to defeat hundreds of thousand to millions of light cavalry on open plains. Nothing short of decent gunpowder rifles (and really, Maxim guns) is going to let a land bound force contest the Dothraki successfully on a strategic scale.
Dragons could do it, which means Slavers Bay after Dany conquers it; but that is cheating.
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Deleted member 88
Guest
I wouldn't say you need gunpowder per se.
You need to either counter Dothraki cavalry with your own missile cavalry, or have an army in the millions.
You need to co opt Dothraki khalasars and use them against others. Systematically destroy their slaves, livestock, and other sources of food and sustenance.
Disciplined infantry and effective anti horse archer tactics should beat the Dothraki every time. Having your own horse archers or mounted crossbowmen should be effective as well.
It can be done, but it would be a slow and bloody bloody process.
You need to either counter Dothraki cavalry with your own missile cavalry, or have an army in the millions.
You need to co opt Dothraki khalasars and use them against others. Systematically destroy their slaves, livestock, and other sources of food and sustenance.
Disciplined infantry and effective anti horse archer tactics should beat the Dothraki every time. Having your own horse archers or mounted crossbowmen should be effective as well.
It can be done, but it would be a slow and bloody bloody process.
You aren't going to counter horse archers who spend literally their whole lives riding, raiding, and shooting on the open plains with missile troops. Even if each of your troops was worth two Dothraki (and it is probably more unbalanced in the other direction), you are looking at needing at least several hundred thousand of them. That is several hundred thousand for an expeditionary force, which means you need the logistics to support that force in the field.
It's simply not something that anyone in Esso, or probably even all of them working together, can raise, train, field, and maintain.
You don't co-opt them from outside their culture, and if you refuse to maintain their culture then you won't be followed. Dany only got away with it because she had dragons & miracles.
Except you are fighting on open plains against horse archers who are also, still, highly trained melee fighters. Even if they can't break a formation of heavy infantry in a straight fight without ruinous casualties, the supply lines won't be anywhere near so well guarded (they can't be without orders of magnitude more men). They will simply die on the vine.
The Dothraki Sea is basically just open plains and grasslands with essentially nothing that could be considered a defensible location or natural choke point.
No, it can't really be done. At least not without divine intervention to make everyone else play nice and ignore all of the social and political issues and pressures of relevance.
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Deleted member 88
Guest
Are we referring to just Essos, if so then your right. But I am speaking in terms of some hypothetical power than can bring hundreds of thousands of soldiers to bear.
The Chinese co-opted nomads all the time. It can be done.
The Dothraki fight unarmoured and can not into tactics. Horse archers and crossbowmen as well as disciplined spearmen will destroy them in every engagement. You defend the baggage train with hundreds of crossbowmen and make heavy use of wagon forts. Tactically-one way you might do it is have the baggage in the center-protected by crossbowmen and archers, with spearmen forming a perimeter. Square tactics-with missile troops inside the formation. The Dothraki can reign arrows and your men block with their shields, or they can charge into lines of pikes and get shredded by crossbow quarrels.
Attack their women and children-the US army made excellent use of this admittedly cold hearted tactic against Indians. The Dothraki will be lured into fighting where you can encircle and destroy them. Kill their herds and slaughter their slaves. Without food they wither and die on the vine.
The Dothraki can be destroyed it just requires sufficient resources and imagination.
CarlManvers2019
Writers Blocked Douchebag
Smaug, Mayor of Lake Town
Smaug invaded Erebor, destroying the dwarves and taking their wealth as his hoard. In the long lonely years since, he’s watched the small town on the lake, gradually growing to like the humans.
forums.spacebattles.com
Idea from this
Smaug, King-Beyond-The-Wall, Magnar of Thenn
Slight comedy all-in-all
Ned Stark has to figure out how to do politics and negotiations with a giant dragon and the Wildlings have to figure out how to use "gold"
Smaug plays settlement-management-building games, which are somewhat "fast" to him due to his extremely long lifespan
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Deleted member 88
Guest
I just saw that thread on SB, how convenient.
CarlManvers2019
Writers Blocked Douchebag
"Magnar" means "God King" right? I guess referring to Smaug as "Magnar" is more appropriate a title
Euron Greyjoy proceeds to take his Dragonhorn all the way to the Lonely Mountain in order to take control of Smaug and his Kingdom/People/Treasure-Hoard
CarlManvers2019
Writers Blocked Douchebag
Idea: ROB makes a “mistake” and accidentally gives Joffrey advanced human knowledge
He proceeds to use said intellect to go and make a Repeating Crossbow so as to better commit mass murder
Tyrion can’t help but be alarmed at his nephew’s sudden increase in intelect being combined with him having elaborate machinery constructed to commit mass murder
He proceeds to use said intellect to go and make a Repeating Crossbow so as to better commit mass murder
Tyrion can’t help but be alarmed at his nephew’s sudden increase in intelect being combined with him having elaborate machinery constructed to commit mass murder
liberty90
Evil Neoliberal Cat
Explosives, highly possibly needed, but decent rifles and Maxim guns? Doubt.
Because gunpowder-era Russian Empire was able to deal with nomads just fine, without any Maxim guns yet.
Surely there were reasons as to why nomads were broken much before late XIX century.
CarlManvers2019
Writers Blocked Douchebag
Say, how would guys like the Dothraki adapt to technological revolutions?
I mean even Native Americans learned to re-create gunpowder weapons by reverse engineering or learning from Europeans, I think
liberty90
Evil Neoliberal Cat
I need to mention that's a nice toy to kill or at least maim civilians, or bandits. It's not especially useful in european-late-medieval-style war. Really poor stopping power, practically opposite of the usual crossbow.