Andrew Yang's Mayoral Ambitions

[Floridaman]

The thing about capitalist society is that not everyone can afford the bare necessities (food, home, healthcare, etc.). UBI is a solution to a problem that shouldn't have existed in the first place. Some are poor and have little in the options to lift themselves out of poverty.

Ah yes, because what I think of when seeing the poor in America it is that they are starving.

Morbid obesity and the transition from welfare to work - PubMed

This paper utilizes a rich longitudinal data set--the Women's Employment Study (WES)--to investigate whether obesity, which is common among women of low socioeconomic status, is a barrier to employment and earnings for current and former welfare recipients. We find that former welfare recipients...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

 

[LordsFire]

The thing about capitalist society is that not everyone can afford the bare necessities (food, home, healthcare, etc.). UBI is a solution to a problem that shouldn't have existed in the first place. Some are poor and have little in the options to lift themselves out of poverty.

You have a basic error there: The thing about human society is that there's always some that cannot afford the bare necessities. This is not unique to capitalist systems in any way.

If you get to extremely small 'nations,' you might find an exception, but in any sufficiently large population of humans, some people will be destitute. Whether it's because of bad luck, injustice, or their own moral failings, some people end up there.

What free market systems have proven over the last 200 years, is that so long as they are coupled with a decently coherent social morality, they are absolutely the best economic model to raise everybody's prosperity overall.

What has also been proven over time, is that creating welfare dependency is an excellent method for keeping people in generational poverty, and encouraging breakdown in the family. And single-parent upbringing is the largest predictor of poor success in life, academically, financially, and in staying on the right side of the law.

The UBI would just exacerbate a problem that already exists, even if we did manage to get rid of the entire bloated welfare state that already exists, all the other programs would start getting replaced with new ones pretty soon anyways.

 

[Spktr Alpha]

Ah yes, because what I think of when seeing the poor in America it is that they are starving.

Morbid obesity and the transition from welfare to work - PubMed

This paper utilizes a rich longitudinal data set--the Women's Employment Study (WES)--to investigate whether obesity, which is common among women of low socioeconomic status, is a barrier to employment and earnings for current and former welfare recipients. We find that former welfare recipients...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Food insecurity and poverty go hand in hand. Not all places have access to healthy food, especially the affordable kind.

You have a basic error there: The thing about human society is that there's always some that cannot afford the bare necessities. This is not unique to capitalist systems in any way.

If you get to extremely small 'nations,' you might find an exception, but in any sufficiently large population of humans, some people will be destitute. Whether it's because of bad luck, injustice, or their own moral failings, some people end up there.

What free market systems have proven over the last 200 years, is that so long as they are coupled with a decently coherent social morality, they are absolutely the best economic model to raise everybody's prosperity overall.

What has also been proven over time, is that creating welfare dependency is an excellent method for keeping people in generational poverty, and encouraging breakdown in the family. And single-parent upbringing is the largest predictor of poor success in life, academically, financially, and in staying on the right side of the law.

The UBI would just exacerbate a problem that already exists, even if we did manage to get rid of the entire bloated welfare state that already exists, all the other programs would start getting replaced with new ones pretty soon anyways.

The bolded part is why I am supportive of welfare. My father nearly died and my family was near bankrupt due to medical costs alongside other expenses piled on thanks to a loss of a source of income. Government Programs helped us keep our home, the lights on, and my father alive. I don't feel it is morally right to abandon people as casualties of the free market.

 

[Husky_Khan]

The thing about capitalist society is that not everyone can afford the bare necessities (food, home, healthcare, etc.). UBI is a solution to a problem that shouldn't have existed in the first place. Some are poor and have little in the options to lift themselves out of poverty.

We did have a thread on it actually... No rules against Necromancy I think if it wants to be restarted.

https://www.the-sietch.com/index.php?threads/universal-basic-income.342/

 

[CarlManvers2019]

The bolded part is why I am supportive of welfare. My father nearly died and my family was near bankrupt due to medical costs alongside other expenses piled on thanks to a loss of a source of income. Government Programs helped us keep our home, the lights on, and my father alive. I don't feel it is morally right to abandon people as casualties of the free market.

Private Charities would be economically better, but one thing I grant is that because it is something depending entirely on someone’s CHOICE

It is not a guarantee

CHOICE is something you cannot always count on

It would be preferable if people were FORCED to be good

Like the Sword of Damocles over everybody’s head, if they don’t sit properly, then it falls on their heads.

They can sit properly on their own choice but they might not, it maybe better if there was a knife to that person’s throat to avoid him/her not having good table manners

Freedom From CHOICE maybe what Governments need

I think I recalled the Qun too weirdly

 

[LordsFire]

Food insecurity and poverty go hand in hand. Not all places have access to healthy food, especially the affordable kind.

The bolded part is why I am supportive of welfare. My father nearly died and my family was near bankrupt due to medical costs alongside other expenses piled on thanks to a loss of a source of income. Government Programs helped us keep our home, the lights on, and my father alive. I don't feel it is morally right to abandon people as casualties of the free market.

That's not 'casualties of the free market,' that's 'casualties of life.'

We can argue back and forth about the best way to deal with people who fall into poverty, and we can argue about whether a proposed solution does more harm than good.

But they don't get there because of 'the free market.' They get there (in the most charitable interpretation) because misfortune is an inherent part of the human condition. Free markets put a nation in a better place to deal with it better than most, whether that's through private charity, government programs, or a mix of the two.

Also, as a note, it's because of government interference in health care and insurance markets that health care costs are so high in the first place.

 

[CarlManvers2019]

Also, as a note, it's because of government interference in health care and insurance markets that health care costs are so high in the first place.

I think he'll want an explanation as to why/how

I'd like to see one too, preferably a real simple one

One I bet you wouldn't see in school or college regarding economics and finance

 

[LordsFire]

I think he'll want an explanation as to why/how

I'd like to see one too, preferably a real simple one

One I bet you wouldn't see in school or college regarding economics and finance

A few simple factors:

1. The government gave control of a fair number of things, such as how many slots are available at medical school, to the American Medical Association and one or two other private orgs. They've been deliberately throttling the amount of new doctors we get, which means there's a shortage.
2. The government, Federal and State, has been burying medical professionals in paperwork. This means less time to treat patients, more frustration, and more cost.
3. The same issue with frivolous lawsuits and lawsuits that pay out absurd sums in damages that plague so many areas. When a doctor is paying 5-6 figures in malpractice insurance a year, that's a cost that gets added directly to your bills.
4. Insurance. This one probably makes as much of a difference as the other three combined. There are multiple reasons that this is bad, but the long and short of it is as follows:

Insurance companies take your money to start with, then their entire business model is based on not giving it back. To ensure they keep it, they have armies of analysts, lawyers, and bureaucrats. In order to try to get it back, you just have yourself. Medical care providers have to fight that army to try to get your insurance company to actually pay them, and have to hire an entire staff of professionals just to do that, which further adds to the costs.

To be fair to the government, there's a cultural mania about insurance; people have often asked the government to get involved with that, but it doesn't change the fact that government mandating you have health insurance is a whole 'nother level of messed up, beyond just 80-90% of Americans buying it voluntarily.

 

[Shipmaster Sane]

Personally I'm a little bummed by this.
I wanted him to get nominated, just to see him and Trump debate. I think that would have been a cool thing to see.
His UBI arguments, unlike many others, seem more grounded in what might be possible to get passed. He also came at it from a less ideological stand point, and more a 'automation isn't going away' standpoint. Keeping it to $1000 meant he was essentially trying to give people a way to keep food on the table, not let them be welfare queens/Kings.
I know UBI is not a popular idea in these parts, but I feel the objections about it are rooted more in ideology than in looking at the reality of what increasing automation means for our civilization in the future.
Yang wasn't stupid, wasn't hyper-partisan compared to the others in the field, got Dave Chappelle's endorsement (do not underestimate Chappelle's intelligence), Joe Rogan's endorsement, and didn't seem anti-gun.
I could live with Trump losing to Yang; that's not something I feel about any of the remaining Dems.

UBI is a retarded idea, the ideology you're finding conflict with is called "reality".

 

[CarlManvers2019]

A few simple factors:

1. The government gave control of a fair number of things, such as how many slots are available at medical school, to the American Medical Association and one or two other private orgs. They've been deliberately throttling the amount of new doctors we get, which means there's a shortage.
2. The government, Federal and State, has been burying medical professionals in paperwork. This means less time to treat patients, more frustration, and more cost.
3. The same issue with frivolous lawsuits and lawsuits that pay out absurd sums in damages that plague so many areas. When a doctor is paying 5-6 figures in malpractice insurance a year, that's a cost that gets added directly to your bills.
4. Insurance. This one probably makes as much of a difference as the other three combined. There are multiple reasons that this is bad, but the long and short of it is as follows:

Insurance companies take your money to start with, then their entire business model is based on not giving it back. To ensure they keep it, they have armies of analysts, lawyers, and bureaucrats. In order to try to get it back, you just have yourself. Medical care providers have to fight that army to try to get your insurance company to actually pay them, and have to hire an entire staff of professionals just to do that, which further adds to the costs.

To be fair to the government, there's a cultural mania about insurance; people have often asked the government to get involved with that, but it doesn't change the fact that government mandating you have health insurance is a whole 'nother level of messed up, beyond just 80-90% of Americans buying it voluntarily.

Just in case, give sources

Ones that even a guy from CNN can't say was made by Nazi's

Otherwise, press X to Doubt

 

[Bacle]

UBI is a retarded idea, the ideology you're finding conflict with is called "reality".

And yet, we have Trump advocating for a limited version of it to help people out of work during the virus.

And no, reality isn't what UBI conflicts with, it's the 'free market' will fix everything paradaign many are wedded to.

 

[Cherico]

And yet, we have Trump advocating for a limited version of it to help people out of work during the virus.

And no, reality isn't what UBI conflicts with, it's the 'free market' will fix everything paradaign many are wedded to.

The thing is UBI might work but in order for it to not bankrupt the country you have to remove a lot of if not all of the other welfare programs to pay for it. Good luck getting that done.

 

[CarlManvers2019]

The thing is UBI might work but in order for it to not bankrupt the country you have to remove a lot of if not all of the other welfare programs to pay for it. Good luck getting that done.

Remove the other bandages before applying a new one

 

[Shipmaster Sane]

And yet, we have Trump advocating for a limited version of it to help people out of work during the virus.

I'm not married to trump, so you're about a thousand miles from hitting the mark on that one. That said it's humorous your point is
"if something isn't lethal on an extremely small scale, it's fine to scale it up orders of magnitude"

And no, reality isn't what UBI conflicts with, it's the 'free market' will fix everything paradaign many are wedded to.

Theres your problem. Nothing "fixes everything".

The thing is UBI might work but in order for it to not bankrupt the country you have to remove a lot of if not all of the other welfare programs to pay for it. Good luck getting that done.

Remove the other bandages before applying a new one

Hahahahahahahahahaaaaaaa
Remove!
A welfare program!

That'll be the day!

 

[CarlManvers2019]

Hahahahahahahahahaaaaaaa
Remove!
A welfare program!

That'll be the day!

Replace a Welfare Program, then

 

[Terthna]

The thing is UBI might work but in order for it to not bankrupt the country you have to remove a lot of if not all of the other welfare programs to pay for it. Good luck getting that done.

You're not wrong; which is why any plan to implement a UBI must include ending pretty much every other welfare program, in order for it to work at all. Of course, part of the reason we have so many programs, is that conservatives keep wanting to ensure that the money only goes to certain people; people who "deserve it". This has led to a great deal of red tape (which the unscrupulous, the ones who decidedly don't "deserve it", always seem to sidestep), as well as the massive costs associated with maintaining numerous programs with complicated application and monitoring processes. It would be better, perhaps even cheaper, if we just had one program that did not discriminate, and gave all citizens a flat sum.

Another key change that would have to happen is a massive crackdown on illegal immigration; we cannot afford a UBI if we're giving it to millions of people who are not citizens. Of course, thanks to the Corona virus, that issue seems like it's finally getting addressed in earnest. That's the thing though; were it not for the Corona virus, I would not think the things that need to happen in order for a UBI to work ever would within my lifetime. Now though? All bets seem to be off; and it feels like anything could happen.

 

[Bacle]

The thing is UBI might work but in order for it to not bankrupt the country you have to remove a lot of if not all of the other welfare programs to pay for it. Good luck getting that done.

You're correct about needing to cut the others, but that isn't a bad thing in my eyes.

It simplifies a lot thing, cuts down on the amount of beauracracy needed, and does a lot of what the others do without the fuss.

Though nixing illegal immigration is a must for it to be viable.

 

[Shipmaster Sane]

Replace a Welfare Program, then

It's not going to happen, it's laughable to even suggest it.

 

[Husky_Khan]

ANDREW YANG IS BACK BABY!

Poll finds Yang with big lead in NYC mayor’s race

Andrew Yang holds a double-digit lead in the Democratic primary for New York City mayor, according to a new poll released on Wednesday.The poll from Fontas Advisors and Core Decision Analytics show…

thehill.com

At least he's back in the Mayoral Race. After eight years of quasi-Communist rule under Bill DiBlasio, there are TEN major declared Democratic Candidates running for the coveted spot of New York City's Mayor. They include a wide variety of politicians and executives whom I've never heard of but I'm sure are very qualified.

Regardless, Andrew Yang is in first place according to recent polling, a full ten points ahead of his competitors... which... if modern media polling is anything to indicate... probably means he's like twenty or twenty five points ahead.

And in case if your wondering, don't worry... there is a VERY ACTIVE Republican Primary as well for the NYC Mayoral Seat... already we've had ONE MAJOR DECLARED candidate. Curtis Sliwa... the founder of the famous volunteer crime prevention group, the Guardian Angels. Who I mean... seems like a cool guy and all. Wish him luck!

GOP mayoral hopeful Curtis Sliwa lays out mayoral platform

Radio personality and Guardian Angels founder Curtis Sliwa laid out a mayoral campaign platform Tuesday that would prioritize austerity amid the city’s fiscal crisis, and strip the NYPD of so…

www.nydailynews.com

 

[Zachowon]

ANDREW YANG IS BACK BABY!

Poll finds Yang with big lead in NYC mayor’s race

Andrew Yang holds a double-digit lead in the Democratic primary for New York City mayor, according to a new poll released on Wednesday.The poll from Fontas Advisors and Core Decision Analytics show…

thehill.com

At least he's back in the Mayoral Race. After eight years of quasi-Communist rule under Bill DiBlasio, there are TEN major declared Democratic Candidates running for the coveted spot of New York City's Mayor. They include a wide variety of politicians and executives whom I've never heard of but I'm sure are very qualified.

Regardless, Andrew Yang is in first place according to recent polling, a full ten points ahead of his competitors... which... if modern media polling is anything to indicate... probably means he's like twenty or twenty five points ahead.

And in case if your wondering, don't worry... there is a VERY ACTIVE Republican Primary as well for the NYC Mayoral Seat... already we've had ONE MAJOR DECLARED candidate. Curtis Sliwa... the founder of the famous volunteer crime prevention group, the Guardian Angels. Who I mean... seems like a cool guy and all. Wish him luck!

GOP mayoral hopeful Curtis Sliwa lays out mayoral platform

Radio personality and Guardian Angels founder Curtis Sliwa laid out a mayoral campaign platform Tuesday that would prioritize austerity amid the city’s fiscal crisis, and strip the NYPD of so…

www.nydailynews.com

The GOP seems to have the best idea how to fix everything.